Friday, January 11, 2008 by
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"So, Maddie, who did you choose?"
"Christian! I am going to hug him and squeeze him and call him my BESTEST FRIEND!"
"Kill me."
Oh, kittens. Karma's a bitch, ain't it? Christian got paired with the most opinionated, overconfident, pushy girl in the room - besides himself, that is. DEE-LICIOUS (and probably a setup).
As entertaining as it was watching Miss Shit Don't Stink come up against the one force that could possibly overwhelm him, it got a little scary there when it looked like he was going to go home over it.
Problem is...
...we really DO think he should have gone home over this.
Now, don't you worry, girls. We have plenty to say about Ricky's dress and we'll get to that later. The argument seems to be that HE was the one that deserved to go home and there's a big part of us that agrees with that.
BUT.
Not ONLY was this a big ruched and ruffled and pleated mess...
Not ONLY was the color absolutely wrong for this girl...
Not ONLY was this quite possibly the LEAST flattering silhouette and length you could pick for her body type...
Not ONLY did he stick every kind of ticky-tacky embellishment one could think of all over this mess...
Not ONLY all that...
But THEN, he threw her under the bus the very second it was his turn to defend his work.
Not cool, girl.
Look, there was no doubt that he had the most difficult client in the room, nor was there any doubt that she had DEFINITE ideas about what the dress should be and most of those ideas were awful. The problem is, Christian didn't do what all designers should do in this situation and pull a Nancy Reagan and JUST SAY NO.
Yes, it was HER dress in the sense that she was wearing it and (if this was the real world), she was paying for it. But it's just as much HIS dress in the sense that he's the designer and it's his name and reputation on the line. At some point, he should have turned to her and said "I'm not a dressmaker, I'm a designer and you're just going to have to let me design the best dress for you."
There are plenty of advantages to being a self-proclaimed "young raw talent" but in this instance, the "young" was a real disadvantage. He just didn't have the maturity or the experience to put his foot down and assert himself in the design. We joke about watching him get a little of a comeuppance, but in truth, it was a little heartbreaking. Watching his almost teary-eyed exchange with Tim showed us that he was really lost and had no idea what to do.
That doesn't excuse him trying to pin all the blame on her, though. As we said, she was difficult, but it was his responsibility to rein her in and assert his design skills. There was more than one bad dress on the runway this week, but in Christian's case, it was a truly horrendous, melted ice cream cake of a dress coupled with some terribly unprofessional behavior.
Sorry, Princess. We still love you. And to prove it:
We're not going to make fun of your shiny, shiny vest.
[Photo: Barbara Nitke/Bravotv.com - Screencaps - Project RunGay]
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168 comments:
To be honest. I liked it. It was a middle of the lot dress. Not the top, but not necessarily the bottom.
And Jesus, I'd kill myself if I had to spend high school with Maddie.
By the way...
FIRST :D
Karma's a bitch...
Princess got what she had coming. I took a perverse delight in watching the battle of the divas.
Christian barely squeaked by this one!
Bravo needs a new show next season - called "Christian and Maddie". They can take them to various locations (Christian and Maddie at the DMV, Christian and Maddie at Niagra Falls, Christian and Maddie at Arby's) and we can watch Maddie just TORTURE Christian. I would watch it every week.
At one point, Christian says, "I cannot let myself be overpowered by a 17-year-old girl."
And I'm thinking, "You mean 'yet again.' "
it didn't fit her! it was awful. she was difficult but so was he. I still think he's talented tho'.
Cpk
When I said Ricky should go home, that was for his total body of work (even though I know that's not how PR is supposed to be judged.) Christian just has so much raw talent I thought he should get another chance. (Though not at Kevin's expense.)
Maturity and client skills was one issue, but what the heck happened to the back of this dress? We know Christian has great technical skills. That was the most shocking thing of all.
Face it, it made for some hilarious teevee.
if things were fair, and the judges had no favorites, this would have been the loser. let's be honest. there's nothing attractive about this dress on this girl (and very little that could be called attractive on ANYONE).
it reminds me of a horrible bridesmaid's dress from the 80's reconstructed into a horrible prom dress. christian has talent, but he's still just a baby, in so many ways.
That girl is a future Bridezilla, but guys, you're right; that dress is a ruched, puckered cocoa puff from the Princess.
IMHO, he followed a middle path, but Nina is always going to say "But it's your design." if the client has the upper hand OR '"You have to be responsive to your client." if the designer asserts themselves. Pick one and stick with it, Nina.
"Christian! I am going to hug him and squeeze him and call him my BESTEST FRIEND!"
ROFL. The dress was UGLY, his behavior was inexcusable. I love Princess but he was wrong.
I felt sorry for Christian, but how much fun was it to watch him go through that?
It shouldn't have been that hard to distract Maddie. He should have come up with some ideas of his own rather than reacting to hers. He could just have told her what would look really good on her, and she would have bought it.
I'm glad he's still around. I know some people think PR is all about finding the next great designer, but I think PR is all about keeping me entertained.
One word: monstrosity. Worst thing this season, by far.
responding to redspring, there are several cases where the judges responded to the body of work of the other bottom designers when making their decisions. But rather instead of whole bodies of work, I think the judges are biased towards designers that have won a challenge.
And thus Jeffrey, Michael, Wendy, Santino, etc weren't elminated when they should have been.
Not so much Michael though. His only fuck up was in the final four challenge.
The weird thing was, at least the way it was edited, Christian through her under the bus before he even heard what the judge's had to say. He told her in the work room he was gonna do it and then he jumped out of the gate before the starter pistol was even fired.
They judeges were like, "Now, Christian..."
And he's "It was all her fault!"
This was a complete mess. It was ugly, unflattering and just yuck. The Shirley Temple/Baby Jane look was horrific on this big girl. The color did nothing for her either. I don't care much for PP's designs or his snotty attitude, and at first I was laughing over his getting the client he deserved, but my cold witchy heart actually started to feel a bit sorry for him when he lost faith in himself. As hideous as I thought this was, I still think Ricky should have gone home.
I agree that his dress was a not-so-hot mess, but given his youth and his apparent (I won't say obvious talent because he's been coasting on doing the same edgy black thing the whole season) talent I'm glad he gets to stay.
However, booting Kevin was so upsetting when Ricky and his poorly pleated, off-kilter, saggy sack, bland dress that looks like everything he designs can stay another week.
And I hate bedazzlers, therefore I hate VictorYa's dress.
Wow...Maddie reminds me soooooooooo much of my first roommate.Ick ick and double-ick. I feel so bad for Princess Puffysleeves.
I thought at some point Christian DID say he's a designer not a dressmaker. Did he not say that to her?
But yup, this was a stinker- fit, design, construction, attitude, everything stunk like a skunk.
At least, unlike Ricky, he did SOMETHING with this dress. My biggest complain with Christian's dress was how it was completely wrong for this shorter, full-figured girl.
But still, at least he tried to have some sort of POV, tried to show some skill, even if it ultimately failed. Ricky, meanwhile, threw a pillowcase over his client. A white pillowcase, with a bedazzled belt. And called it a dress. Puh-leez.
Great commentary, guys.
Karma may be a bitch, but so is youth. When Christian said "I've never had a client like this before," I thought, "How many clients can you have had, for God sake?"
Kid Twist, when he said, ""I cannot let myself be overpowered by a 17-year-old girl," all I could think was, "You're FOUR years older!!"
He's got a lot of hubris for someone that young.
Most delicious part of the season so far -- watching the Princess sweat! But, upsetting, too, to see someone who is talented get completely thrown by a teenage force of nature!
Time for Tim word.
I took one look at that dress and said "Pastiche".
W-O-W!!!! Your close-ups of the detail on this dress show how truly HEINOUS it was.
This was One Hot Chocolate MESS!!
I'm amazed to hear myself say this, but this garment was worse than Ricky's!!
Seriously! This is a mess just standing! There are execution issues with this disaster that co beyond unforgiveable.
I would have HATED seeing the little guy go, but I'm starting to think he really deserved to for turning out something like this.
P.S. - Don't really care about the "throwing under the bus" thing. It's a competition. Desperation breeds desperate acts. I'm not surprised. When a person is inches away from elimination, who would not do the same?
I care about the garments, the skill and the talent displayed. Period. And that's what I personally judge each of them on.
I noticed that Princess' hair got more and more deflated as the episode wore on.
the neighbors will hear said: "He could just have told her what would look really good on her, and she would have bought it."
Do you know anyone like Maddie? No, she wouldn't have bought it. Not. One. Bit. Especially not after she declared herself a designer too. (I get the feeling she didn't appear on this show to have a dress made for her and be a model, I suspect she saw this as her chance to be a designer on PR.)
Still, he should have tried harder to sway her to his way of thinking (or if he did, we should have seen more of it in the edit).
BTW, am I the only one who watches this show weekly wondering just what "really happened" as opposed to "how it was edited?" Perhaps its a byproduct of watching too much reality TV (specifically Top Model), but by now I don't trust any show to actually show us what happened. I expect them to edit it for the most drama, always leaving me wondering if things were quite as they appeared on the show. Having fans constantly second-guessing how truthfully they represented the situations can't be good.
I'm not usually an advocate for more reality shows, but I would totally watch "Christian and Maddie!" Nice idea, David Dust!
I look forward to more karma in his future at work, when he gets to work with the "nice" clients, those 35 year old rich ladies that apparently Rami insists is all he does, yes the rich bitches, who of course never would tell him what they want.. They wouldn't complain, or insist that this color is wrong, or that it makes them look fat, and so on.. sure, sure... they would just lovingly long and adore to have whatever he tells them.
At his age.
And with his lack of the ability to handle a teenager even. sure.
Game officially over. No matter what, the point is he showed he isn't ready for maturity yet, meaning handling the prize money and the offer, so it's for the adults now etc..and that means now he handed the judges the right to auf him. I bet he's the fourth of the last three...
Poor Puffysleeves. After all- his prom was like, last week or something. How could he possibly be expected to stand up to Miss "I want to be a designer someday"??
I loved EVERY MINUTE of that....even the meltdown with Tim. Totally served him right. Lesson should be you ARE NOT all that and a bag of chips Christian. You cannot piss straight yet. You have a lot to learn. Deflate that head of yours a little bit.
The pic of Christian smiling sweetly up at Maddie and the caption, "Kill me". LMAO!
I liked Maddie! It'd be wonderful if the two of them bumped into each other ten years from now and rehashed this experience over lunch.
all week long we saw a specific commercial with christian agruing with one of the judges. then comes showtime & NOTHING. i hate that.
so torn up about who should have gone. i have a soft spot for our princess....
This was heinous, and the behavior was completely ridiculous. It was like backpedaling to the point of Zulema. All that he needed to do to get there was blame Tim Gunn and God as well.
Do you think that he was just kept for good TV? Or the body of work? I mean, as much as I think he DEFINITELY should have left, it's the Santino Effect... INSANE, UGLY point of view versus no point of view at all. I think if he would have gone head to head with Ricky, I don't know what would have happened.
And why the hell is Ricky still around, anyway?
Let's get to Rami's dress! Titscrepancy goes to the Prom! Can't wait!
thank god i get to agree with you boys again!
poor princess. this was horrendous. he definitely had it coming. and it was sweet to watch him squirm through this challenge. but all he had to do was tell her that the mess she wanted wouldn't look good on her.
princess let himself get bullied into making one big ugly doo-doo dress. and he got DAMN lucky in the final judging. let's hope it's lesson learned, cause i want him in the final three.
Metropolitan Vegetable said:
"P.S. - Don't really care about the "throwing under the bus" thing. It's a competition. Desperation breeds desperate acts. I'm not surprised. When a person is inches away from elimination, who would not do the same?
I care about the garments, the skill and the talent displayed. Period. And that's what I personally judge each of them on."
Well said. The designers' personalities are not being judged on the runway.
I heard Picasso was a real prick. And Van Gogh - Whew, what a head case! Should that matter?
What he should have done was listen to what she had to say and go ahead and make a beautiful flattering dress for her, then pretend like she was the one that designed it. But I don't think he could. Not capable.
Christian was pissed the moment he got the challenge even before he met Maddie.
He get more pissed when he saw his client.
Then more when he realized she was so opinionated.
He also seemed horrified at the weight loss challenge, until he realised his client was like a size 4.
Is it possible he has a problem with the non-model type body like V-Ya?? After all, he is so young and I'm pretty sure design schools don't offer much training for working on the non-model figure. Does he maybe not really get how to design for larger bodies?
Of course, that doesn't explain the piss poor way he treated Maddie. It was worse than Jeffrey and Angela's mother, for chrissakes.
The dress was fug. The judging was worse.
When they do these client challenges, isn't a criteria for judging how they work with their clients??
Thanks for all the close-ups, gentlemen. We can review the oeuvre at our leisure.
Gosh! Clearly there has been a small explosion in a taffeta factory. And based on photo/ closeup number 7, just. one. word: TITSCREPANCY.
This dress (if it were made right) reminds me of what a cool, kind of goth girl would wear, circa 1988. I remember being blown away by a brown satin and black lace combo. She would wear it with boots and some kind of textured hose.
Wow, this dress really IS badly done.
The fitting is terrible, the work sloppy.
Really, based on THIS alone (& his behavior), he should've gone home.
Completely on point criticism of the dress. I thought it was really interesting when they asked how the challenge went for him and he instantly started pointing the finger at his model who, though she had opinions, certainly didn't make the dress.
Clients have opinions. And if you are going to have a dress made for you, it is certainly acceptable (in my book) to tell the designer what you want, so I don't really think Christan's model was over the line (she seemed a bit stubborn, but as a stubborn person myself I am sympathetic) in wanting what she wanted in a dress. As someone else mentioned, it is the designers job to suggest what they think would look good, and incorporate that into both the client and their own aesthetics. Sweet P's client wanted plunging neck and back lines and she didn't' want to go that overboard so reined her in. The other designers also probably got a lot of input from their clients (editing and all didn't show much of this, but I am fairly sure it must have been there). Christian seemed to be the one who struggled the most to fit his desires in with his models, which ultimately resulted in a disaster of a dress.
That said, I would have been sad to see him go. His behavior during this judging aside, he has grown on me through the season, and I look forward to what he will do with each challenge, which is really the point of the show. But I hope that he uses the next challenge to redeem his designs and behavior.
I felt bad for Maddie having to wear that thing on national TV and then getting blamed for it.
It was so entertaining, tho.
What's going on with the back of the dress (picture with mother and Christian)? Is that how short it was in the back?
so madam ovary identified why i didn't HATE this dress: it kinda IS goth circa early 90s. I actually like the colors he used, though maybe not for this girl. But Maddie - honestly, I could imagine her literally ripping the dress up during a fitting if she didn't like it. She wasn't very cooperative (trying to walk away while he was still pinning) and wanting to try on shoes and such. She ASKED for a shitload of ticky-tacky stuff, and Christian gave it to her (in reduced form, actually). The poor construction in the back - the kid realized he had a problem and tried to fix it but couldn't. I am not a huge Christian fan, but I felt for him in this one. I LOVED the way Tim tried to push Christian back on track, and I loved the "I don't feel so fierce" moment. It was so "mommy, i don't feel so good" right before a little kid pukes on your jeans.
Look, Maddie DREW the silhoutte of the dress she wanted. The fact that she has no taste and no idea how to dress her own body IS her fault. How do you give such a forceful girl something very different from what she wanted? Christian has to learn to work with people, and he needs to be taken down a notch, but I really felt for him in this one.
and i still think VictorYa's dress is uglier.
You know, I kept expecting Tim to jerk Christian up by the arm, pop him hard on the ass, and say, "That's enough of that whining, young man!"
Alas, no.
I love this idea!
David Dust said...
"Bravo needs a new show next season - called "Christian and Maddie". They can take them to various locations (Christian and Maddie at the DMV, Christian and Maddie at Niagra Falls, Christian and Maddie at Arby's) and we can watch Maddie just TORTURE Christian. I would watch it every week."
I really enjoy The Princess! To me, she's the only fun character this season of drones has produced. I can imagine she and Maddie at Arby's, slap-fighting over curly fries. But The Princess might not do carbs! Perhaps she subsists on yogurt alone...
min said
You know, I kept expecting Tim to jerk Christian up by the arm, pop him hard on the ass, and say, "That's enough of that whining, young man!"
Alas, no.
6:25 PM
Maybe it was edited out!
i could be wrong here, but didn't maddie ASK for brown and lace and a bunch of fussy frilly stuff at the bodice? i got the impression that christian was trying to balance his vision with hers, and obviously, he failed. i actually sympathized with him on this one...
although i have to admit, the strained look on his face when he found out he was working with maddie was priceless.
I'll bet Nora is stewing about this one. She didn't get any slack for being too young to stand up to her client. At least she wasn't mean!
(But I'm glad he got through--he's so damn entertaining.)
Two words:
Wickety - Wack.
A walking chocolate frosted cupcake.
With jimmies.
The biggest bullshittery of this whole thing is this:
in the final ripping of the bottom two, Heidi says 'Kevin...you made your client look frumpy' then 'Christian...you blame your model for your own inadequacies which is COMPLETELY INEXCUSABLE', yet they excuse him for his behavior and keep him on the show.
ugh.
I was left speechless by the sheer fug of this dress. Poorly designed, poorly made, poorly tailored, from the bad color to the appallingly uneven hem. Seriously - how did the princess not get booted off? If he thinks Maddie is difficult, wait until he has to deal with some debutante with money...
I loved Maddie! She was opinionated and difficult, but she knew it and owned it and didn't take it all too seriously. I loved it when she smiled and said, "You know you love me". I did feel for Christian, but Maddie was great! She was not happy with the dress, but she had a terrific attitude walking the runway. I got the impression that she saw this as her chance for her 15 minutes and she had a great time with it!
About the dress...it was, indeed, awful. But I am very glad Christian didn't get auf'd for it. I still want to adopt him.
-Vindaloo
Emerging from lurkdom to say that I sort of felt sorry for Princess last night.
I work with teenagers, and I know that that most humans between the ages of 11-22 exist in a "Bubble of Me". Everything 6 inches from a teenagers body is the most important, special, fierce thing in the world. Not in the bubble? Not important.
When that bubble pops it's painful, and if Maddie didn't pop Christian's, she at least deflated it a little.
That being said, the dress was fug.
I would like to go back and look at her sketch one more time. Because that hard, definite waist followed by a poofy skirt was not a good line for her. And Sister C shoulda sold her on a better line..."I think if we did this (fashah!) then it would make you look really sleek and give you some (kaPOW!) (I need Elisa's help with the sound effects.) I think Chris (was it Chris) hit on it when he asked his client "ok, how do you want to feel?" And Christian needed to think about that a little-because there were a lot of elements in that dress that COULD HAVE BEEN USEFUL....if they ALL weren't piled up like a jubliee jumble sale
Princess met his psychic dopelganger.
You know, most overwhelming thought this episode left me with was: Too bad Aaron Spelling is dead. These two crazy kids would have been one badly acted, badass crime-fighting duo.
But as for those who suggested he was too young to reign her in, I'd say, not even Tim could have reigned her in. All teenagers are narcisistic by nature. But teenage girls this giddy & overbearing are an unstoppable force. I've seen them render the NYPD helpless.
Both Christian & Maddie were annoying. But her annoyingness was more unfair, in this instance, because this was not about her. She didn't get that. This was about these designers competing for a big prize & she was blowing his chances. She & the other girls were just props in the episode.
For Christian's part, does he not pay attention? Throwing her under the bus was never going to work & not only that, doing it before the judges even said anything about the dress was stupid. They might have loved it - especially given their Sybil-like judging decisions. And given that they claimed they only liked 2 dresses, I'm wondering if they WERE going to put Christian in the top 3 til he opened his yap.
--GothamTomato
...But difficult client aside, that was one ugly bridesmaid dress. But then, there was a lot of ugly going around this week. That said, every one of those dresses would be worn in Jersey.
--GothamTomato
Alright... I adore Christian, and he is my favorite. I need to say that to be honest before saying this.
He made the worst dress, but he still shouldn't have gone home.
That dress wasn't even a hot mess, it was a cold mess. It was the kind of thing Ugly Betty would have worn to her prom but in silver. He had a nightmare of a client... and here's the rub - I can't justify someone going home when they are derailed by a nightmare client, when someone else who had no additional handicap made something just slightly less atrocious (and that would have been Ricky, not Kevin).
Put Maddie in any other designers hands, and I guarantee they were destined to the bottom two. You can't send someone home for that.
They would never have put that dress in the top 3.
Gotham has it right:"Both Christian & Maddie were annoying. But her annoyingness was more unfair, in this instance, because this was not about her. She didn't get that. This was about these designers competing for a big prize & she was blowing his chances. "
I don't see her being much different as an adult. And if someone doesn't help her soon - that will be very sad. It is possible for even a teenager to possess empathy and compassion.
I think Christian genuinely wanted to please her. Oddly enough - in this instance his ego was not strong enough to let him go his own way.
As for the judging and letting Kevin go and Rickey stay - they have lost all credibility. PRC was better and Iman a true grownup with at least as much integrity as is possible in a reality show.
okay to those people comparing fashion designers with artists - its not the same. in the graphic arts we say that a designer is an artist with less personality disorders. christian doesnt have a lot of people skills. which, at 21, may not be all that surprising. although i must say - it was hilarious to watch.
I think the back of her dress was so short because Christian didn't allow extra length to compensate for her rear end pumping the dress out, and therefore up!
If that dress had a name, it would be Chocolate Rain.
"Both Christian & Maddie were annoying. But her annoyingness was more unfair, in this instance, because this was not about her. She didn't get that. This was about these designers competing for a big prize & she was blowing his chances. She & the other girls were just props in the episode."
This challenge was about "Working with a client."
Maddy was "the client."
ergo: the challenge (for Christian) was about Maddy.
She played her part VERY well.
I don't think any of the girls were told: "OK kids, remember, your job is to help your design win this competition and all those fabulous prizes!
"...that was one ugly bridesmaid dress."
Dear God, at what Goth-Nightmare wedding would a dress like that EVER stand next to a bride?
"... That said, every one of those dresses would be worn in Jersey."
Excuse you???
I hope the little brat actually has to wear that mess to the prom. THEN we'll see who's bragging about her 'two years of design training.'
This post is spot spot on. Christian's lack of professionalism is inexcusable, regardless of his age, and the dress was horrific. Yes, he deserved to be sent home, but I probs would have stopped watching if they'd done that so tg they didn't! I heart heart heart him despite his foibles!
"in the graphic arts we say that a designer is an artist with less personality disorders."
In the design arts, we say that a graphic artist is a frustrated cartoonist.
There aren't that many years between Christian and Maddie, furthermore, when it comes to coping skills, I'd say the two are neck and neck.
The dramatics, the writhing on the floor, the complaining -- he just doesn't have the listening, negotiation, or assertion skills yet. But that doesn't mean that someday, he'll acquire them. After all, he's fresh out of design school, and though you can always be right when you're in school, it shows that he hasn't had a lot of professional experience.
And I LOVE the idea of a "Christian and Maddie" show. If this writer's strike goes on much longer, you might just get it.
Oh, where to start. To me, this is the ugliest outfit so far this season or at least tied with Sweet P's menswear. If the aufing was based just on this challenge, I'd have sent Christian home. Both he and Ricky chose colors too close to their clients' skintones, both were unflattering, both had construction problems, but Christian's was just way more whickety whack. Top that off with his behavior on the runway and he'd have been a goner.
Based on cumulative work, I'd have aufed Ricky. Although in my world Ricky would already be gone as would Sweet P. And I'd have gotten to see Elisa design a prom dress. Now that's entertainment!!
And given that they claimed they only liked 2 dresses, I'm wondering if they WERE going to put Christian in the top 3 til he opened his yap."
--GothamTomato
I completely thought the same thing when I saw it. I later thought I must be crazy, but I guess I am not the only one. I didn't like the dress, didn't think it should be in the top three, but I was getting the vibe it might have been if it hadn't been for the blame game right out of the gate. And though it wouldn't be deserving of a top 3, it certainly wouldn't be the first time a dress I disliked was ranked well.
You don't have to make fun of his shiny vest, but you could still make fun of his cockatiel hairdo. I sure did!
Agree, agree, agree. While ultimately I wish Ricky was going home, of the bottom two that WERE selected, Christian should have gone. I love both of them as characters, but just using the criteria of which dress I'd feel less embarrassed wearing to prom, I would've sent Christian home.
Both Christian & Maddie were annoying. But her annoyingness was more unfair, in this instance, because this was not about her. She didn't get that. This was about these designers competing for a big prize & she was blowing his chances. She & the other girls were just props in the episode.
Absolutely.
Her continually claiming to be a "co-designer" had to be killing him.
He got the only girl who thought that she was part of the process, and that SUCKED.
DId he handle it poorly? I guess so. But she worked against him from the word "go" and they had entirely different ideas. I'm surprised it turned out as well as it did.
I think it's a bit unfair- the other designers basically had girls that were just happy to be there, but Christian had to deal with someone who was determined to get her way and "collaborate". It was painful to watch and I definitely felt for him.
In the end, I think he should have erred on the side of "not pleasing the client", pulled a Rami, and just made a dress he was comfortable with. He tried to have it both ways and it fell apart.
I'm glad he wasn't aufed. He's a talented kid and I think he may have some great designs yet to come.
And there was a bigger mess on the runway this week... and it wasn't Kevin.
Was the dress that badly sewn or was this girl, like many of the others, not wearing the sort of supportive undergarment that would have made a world of difference? I actually didn't despise the dress -- it kind of harkened the lush bubbliness the client could be if she wasn't such a spoiled brat. But our Princess got lucky this go-around.
Instant karma: Christian paired with Maddie.
Future karma: Maddie is on PR season 8 or 9, and has to do a makeover on a gay man ... and is paired up with Christian.
I actually like the dress, tho it might have been better longer and a little less poufy, since she brings the pouf already...
The Christian and Maddie show would totally work. Each week, he has to produce a new outfit for her.
Both Christian & Maddie were annoying. But her annoyingness was more unfair, in this instance, because this was not about her. She didn't get that. This was about these designers competing for a big prize & she was blowing his chances. She & the other girls were just props in the episode.
Of course she didn't get that!
You think the producers actually told self centered teenage girls that this wasn't about them!, but rather the designers?????
Let's see:
"Girls, you get to try on pretty Prom dresses made especially for you, get your makeup & hair done, and be on National TV. Oh, but this isn't about you."
Um, any teenager in the world will completely go deaf at the last sentence.
I'm sorry, this was about Maddie - in an abstract sense. It was about working with her as a client. It was about how to merge your design sensibilities with what a client wants & making that client happy.
I'm glad Christian is still here. He had me at "You guys will miss me when I'm eliminated tomorrow!" (humbly and in an orange towel turban). It seems his roomies have genuine affection for him; it was a nice moment. I hope his talent gets him to the top four. Much of what is being said about him really is about emotional immaturity -- typical 21-year-old stuff -- but his skills are impressive.
I think it is inteersting to compare PP's edit with that of Sweet P's and Victorya's since the judges liked their dresses the best. Notice both made editorial decisions after they conferred with their clients. Victorya altered the cut on hers. Sweet P changed the cut and bought a different color fabric at Mood than what the client requested.
Christian was clearly derailed from the get go and did not know how to deal with someone like her. It's not just her personality but her vital statistics and a design style that clearly clashed with his own. That bubble that was mentioned was clearly burst and he was completely out of his comfort zone. It may have been the first time he was seriously thrust out of it. After all the boy did not even get or use enough fabric to get the back of the dress done correctly. If he wasn't so mentally thrown by the challenge, he probably would have given the project more thought and at least come up with a more flattering color on her.
I think more a seasoned individual like Rami, the above mentioned ladies or Chris would have known how to better handle her. They might not have been more successful in changing her mind during the caucus but they may have been able to communicate better the presiding constraints and what could be pulled off. I think they would have been more successful in weaning out information to make better editorial decisions during the process.
I felt since he did not know how to deal with her, he just tried to give her what she wanted instead of doing what it took to make the best outfit possible that would be in tune with her style/needs. The end result was a dress that was, as the guest judge diplomatically put it, "labored"
Going back to Sweet P. She didn't make what the client asked for, but the final product flattered the girl and maintained the core of the original concept.
Btw many clients want a say in the creation of the dress since they have to be the one to wear it. Maddie's behavior is really not that abnormal. A designer has to to deal with it and learn to manuever. That was part of Christian's job in this task. He was not just there as a dressmaker but also as a more objective party and to be in charge. He doesn't need to be mean or bitchy but neither should he lose control. Nora from season 1 had the same problem with the wedding dress challenge. She was derailed by it and simply made what the model asked for verbatim. And she got booted for it.
on a final note, the basic concept of the dress was actually viable and could have looked lovely on her. But princess just did not pull it off this time.
Frank
Actually, I thought the dress was kinda cute on the form, it's when Maddie put it on that it all went to shit. She was a complete pain in the ass, and I love PP, and I don't care what the rules are anymore, I am glad my little princess wasn't aufed, and I'm glad Chris is back. Ashanti.
Interestingly, in the interview with the girls in "Noo Jersey Shaw" magazine, one said that the conflict between the designer and client was edited to look better than it was in real life. I wonder what got left out!
They also said they were disappointed--that there was way more waiting around than they expected. I wonder what Maddie thinks if she is reading all these comments!
Vanessa
Before I forget--
Are we sure that Maddie came up with that form? Had Christian sketched nothing, or was she amending that design--it looked too well drawn to be her work alone.
I think that Christian was probably unable to take the lead from Maddie because he drew a blank on what would look good on a woman her size, and therefore had no vision to counter with--he just tried to react to her ideas.
Vanessa (again)
"We're not going to make fun of your shiny, shiny vest."
Priceless! I loved that they included pics of the designers from their own proms. I'm not sure I would share my prom pictures with anyone, let alone a television audience.
profp
So, I'm watching Christian go thru all of this and I'm thinking I'd say to her "tell you what, if you will let me do something for you that I think will make you look fabulous, I will make your real promo dress for free?"
I'm sure it'd be called cheating by the producers, but I'd spin it as resourceful.
Which challenge would you choose? Maddie as a client or being told to make an "everyday" outfit from a wedding dress?
I have to say--I love Christian, and frankly, I don't really care that he tried to blame Maddie--she was clearly difficult in a way that the other girls were not, and I'm so tired of this show throwing one designer into a doomed-to-fail hotseat (e.g., Steven), even if they don't get sent home for it. It just seems cruel and unnecessary.
I think the bigger problem for Christian is that both times his work was in the bottom, he was unwilling to accept any critique at all (constructive or otherwise) from the judges with any sort of grace. He just gets really mean and confrontational. I hestitate to say that even V-yaya, who insists that her work is amazing even when it's a big ol' steamer, doesn't get into big, contentious arguments with the judges.
To be honest, though, I think all the argument turns Nina on... it shows a passion for fashion... or something... why else would Santino have stuck around so long? Maybe that's the real reason that Princess is still around, even though his behavior was "completely inexcusable."
"I loved Maddie! She was opinionated and difficult, but she knew it and owned it and didn't take it all too seriously. I loved it when she smiled and said, "You know you love me". I did feel for Christian, but Maddie was great! She was not happy with the dress, but she had a terrific attitude walking the runway. I got the impression that she saw this as her chance for her 15 minutes and she had a great time with it!"
YAYYY!!! Me too!! I loved her for the exact same reason I like PP!
Jeffrey Bryan said, "I can't justify someone going home when they are derailed by a nightmare client, when someone else who had no additional handicap made something just slightly less atrocious (and that would have been Ricky, not Kevin).
Put Maddie in any other designers hands, and I guarantee they were destined to the bottom two. You can't send someone home for that."
I couldn't agree with you more, Jeffrey.
Christian wrote this on Bravotv.com (Under "Burning Questions"; the boys have a link on the front page):
"What did you think of the other designs?
I thought it was very funny that Sweet P did so well in this challenge because her work is not always strong! I thought it was funny that Rami, Kevin, and myself were the least fave of the judges when we have been the strongest in the past. Also all the designers were lucky to have such great models!
Were you convinced you were going home?
At first i knew that i was going home my dress was so ugly. I don't know how it happened but it did! Then after the judging I felt a bit better."
Even HE knew it was shitty dress. What the judges were thinking? God knows!
I agree with you guys on this one. I wonder if this is another case of the judges not being able to decide whether to judge on the episode or a designer's body of work.
I like Christian but I do think he's a little overrated.
D said...
I think the bigger problem for Christian is that both times his work was in the bottom, he was unwilling to accept any critique at all (constructive or otherwise) from the judges with any sort of grace... I hestitate to say that even V-yaya, who insists that her work is amazing even when it's a big ol' steamer, doesn't get into big, contentious arguments with the judges.
It is really hard to know if this is how it really happens or if it is how the producers choose to portray Princess Puffysleeves. If you listened to Tim's Podcasts on Season Two (Gawd, how I miss his commentary) you would have heard that the argument between Nina and Santino in the lingere competetion which the audience saw about ten seconds of "It's meant to come off, Nina!" actually was a NINETY MINUTE screaming match and the people on the set were seriously concerned that it would escalate to bodily assault.
At this point I assume almost every aspect of our impression of the designers is heavily manipulated.
whatd'ya gonna do? (throwing hands up)
The BLUNT truth...Christian gave this girl a lop-sided bodice with rolls of flesh-colored-satin-sag....oh and would you like a side of poofy-skirted-ass to go with that?
She's young and difficult, but arguably vibrant...sound familiar..Christian S?
Deserving of the "auf" ? ....ermmmmmm, pretty damn close, but thankfully not.
No more melting creations please.
(difficult clients are standard...backbone required.) :)
This is the episode Christian stopped seeming like a cartoon character to me, and like an actual human being.
Reading the blog entry and these comments I get the feeling you guys and gals have been chewing on some bad ol' peyote and I'm following your sacred puke trail into the desert. Me, I liked Christian and Maddie's prom gown. Heidi Klum said she liked it, so did your superhero teddybear Chris March. Christian did not like his dress, so you commentators smell carrion and change into crows. But the reality of the situation is that this all took place six months ago and Christian is sitting in his studio at his sewing machine working on his collection for Bryant Park (or some other project) and is feeling just fine. Peace. Dale.
I thought could’ve been cute in another color and not all risin’ in the rear end department!
Maddie as Nina says “is right in wanting everything she wants" but did she have to be such a bitch about it?
I wouldn't want that kind of customer. I wonder if the producers told her to be that bitchy.
Christian's dress looked SO BAD on that girl. It would've looked nice on a stick thin leggy supermodel, but on that girl, it looked ridiculous. And the color was terrible on her. I know his client was REALLY annoying, but if he wants to be a fashion designer, he's going to have to deal with demanding clients and deal with them in a respectful manner.
His dress was a train wreck - absolutely hideous. Was he still in Hershey's mood? She looked like a truffle.
This dress is HIDEOUS!! It’s giant, poofy and unflattering, but there was no way he was going. He has become the judges pet.
Our poor little Pocket Princess suffered so this episode. (Note to self: need more Cheerios to slip him when his blood sugar is low and he's feeling weak.)
This dress was completely wrong for the client and wrong in almost every other way. That said, the true failing was his lack of maturity and inability to tell his client nicely what would be more flattering on her. This will come with age and experience, I hope. Sister Christian has oodles of potential. He just needs to open himself to accepting he has more to learn.
As for "Christian and Maddie", definitely watchable television. I know! Let's send them to a preschool to dress fussy toddlers. After that, they'll head over to see Stacy and Clinton for a very special episode of "WNTW", followed by a debriefing dinner with Tim Gunn. Each week would have to include dinner with Tim.
"Designers, tell me how you made it work today," Ms. Gunn would say.
"We had to work with the most uncooperative clients today," says Maddie.
"It was totally her fault they didn't like what we designed," pouts Princess.
"Don't even start with me, girlfriend!"
"It's true, though!" PP pronounces.
"Do you want me to mildly assert myself again?" Maddie asks.
"Noooooooooooooooooooo! No, please, anything but that!" Princess looks to Tim in askance. "Please make her stop. She's scaring me."
Cue eyeroll from Tim.
antares said, "When they do these client challenges, isn't a criteria for judging how they work with their clients??"
Then why did Jeffrey win S3 after how he treated Angela's mother? He was much crueler with much, MUCH less justification.
The truth is, Christian was penalized for trying to please his client. What Maddie wore down the runway was half the wickety wack that she asked for. Despite his self-righteous arrogance, Christian really did try to please his client. THERE WAS NO PLEASING HER, because what she wanted was not a prom dress. What she wanted was a new body. Her design ideas would have looked OK on VictorYa's model, but it never would have looked good on her.
The one tactic he should have tried, which might have worked, would have been to befriend her and act like her cool, gay older sister. That's what she wanted, really. If he had won her over with flattery and made her feel like she shared his lofty perch, then he could have said to her, "Girlfriend, I will make you look hot, you just have to trust me."
That's not PP's personality, though. He saw that she was a bitch and not at all cool and he let her know that. Not very politic. IRL, he would have lost that client, and probably would have been relieved.
I'm glad he wasn't auf'ed. He's entertaining as hell. Ricky, OTOH, needs to go.
Can't really add anything to the discussion here re: the dress, but re: the prom photo. I was startled to see how adorable PP looks when he doesn't have that farkakt hairdo and you can actually see his face. Talk about a design misfire. I just want to tie him down and shave his head.
And please don't read anything kinky into that.
spiral jacobs said....."THERE WAS NO PLEASING HER, because what she wanted was not a prom dress. What she wanted was a new body."
no, that was not the issue. And I think it is pretty irresponsible as well as incorrect to say so. Maddie looked pretty damn comfortable in her own body. She just had no idea what would suit her (why would she, she is a teenage girl about let loose on a made-to-order prom dress) and as we have all said Princess just didn't have the gravitas to reign her in
Perhaps (perhaps?) the style wasn't right for Maddie.
Perhaps (perhaps?) the color wasn't right for Maddie.
But what was inexcusable to me and what makes this such a horror is the appalling fit. If it had been well made then a lot of it could be forgiven as client's choice.*
I didn't get to watch the episode so I am relying on pictures and the criticisms on the board, but I don't think her bossiness included saying, 'Oh, make me an ill-fitting dress! That would be so cool!" And PP doesn't have anyone to blame for that part of the fiasco but himself.
Hope Laurie
*Not that that helped Nora in Season 1.
maddie made my teeth hurt.
A hideous mess. The color is the only thing I liked about this dress, although it wasn't a great color for the client. Interesting that Heidi was initially saying that she liked the dress. (That's probably why they didn't auf him). But then she seemed to fall in line with the other judges. One of my complaints about PR judging (and one of the reasons I loved PR Canada). How can the judges always have the same opinion about every damn design? Let's have some honest differences of opinion.
cpk said, "no, that was not the issue. And I think it is pretty irresponsible as well as incorrect to say so."
Irresponsible? Why? Because I'm saying that a short, rounded girl might not be in love with her body shape? It sucks, but it's the way it is more often than not. And it's the unspoken truth about this disaster that no one is unPC enough to state. Because... it's irresponsible to say it? Screw that.
The girl wanted to wear a style that only looks good on tall, skinny girls with long legs (arguably, and barely that). That's just a fact. She wanted to wear it because she's seen it on models and in magazines. Who can blame her? If she were comfortable with her own body, and even the slightest bit self-aware, she would realize that silhouette was a recipe for disaster on her no matter how much she likes and covets it. But being a teenage girl, and an arrogant, pompous, delusional one at that, she wants to wear what the models wear.
How do you tell a girl that she can't wear a style because she's short and curvy? Ever try to tell a teenage girl she's not the Queen of the World? Especially one like Maddie? Good luck with that.
Christian could only have saved this trainwreck if he befriended her and gotten her to go with a completely different silhouette and color scheme, and he didn't have it in him to make friends with her to do it. He tried to please her but he's a designer, not a magician. There was no pleasing her. He had to overrule her, and to do it would be to say, "Hon, you CAN'T WEAR THAT." She would say, "Why not?" If he tell her, he'd have been being irresponsible. OK. Whatever.
Irresponsible was letting her walk down the runway in something that made her look so ugly. A little honesty could have gone a long way.
Christian + Passion Play = DRAMA
I love it!
I think Maddie may have different ideas about her body than the white girls do. Might be the same for a Latina girl. I remember Candy Crawford talking about Jennifer Lopez's booty several years ago, saying she (Candy) would be totally unable to go out in public looking like that (or words to that effect).
Another tidbit: the girls didn't get to keep the dresses.
"I think Maddie may have different ideas about her body than the white girls do."
Black, white, Latina, if you're short and chubby, that dress is WRONG for YOU. Anyone with any sense could see that. What does that say about the amount of sense on the Mad Christian team?
I felt terrible for Christian, because he was in a situation he couldn't possibly win.
I've had customers like that (in another line of work). They tell you what they want, but since you're the professional, you know it's going to look atrocious, so you try, gently, to lead them in another direction. They won't hear of it, and since they're the customer and therefore paying, you have to please them. So you do what they want, and either they're delighted with the hideous work because you did exactly what they wanted, or they hate it because they couldn't envision how the final product was going to turn out.
Christian did exactly what Maddie wanted. She said she wanted brown, with lots of lace and decoration, and she even sketched her desired dress. If he hadn't listened to her--and I have no doubt that nothing he could have said in their half hour together would have changed her mind in any way--then he would have been blamed for not listening to his client, because of course the judges would have found out she wasn't happy with the results. Following her dictates as closely as he could, he was excoriated for making the unflattering dress she explicitly demanded. How could it have been anything but a disaster?
It was a horrible situation, and his only crime was that he didn't have the experience to handle it any better. I'm glad he wasn't thrown off the show for that.
It was hard to see Christian growing up---largely because he was growing up at the age of 21.
I think while Christian knew it in theory that glamorous as it is, the fashion industry is part of the service industry, he learned it the extreme truth of it with Maddie.
That being said, Maddie reminded me of a girl I knew in high school who compensated for her large size with an even larger personality. That's how it seemed to me, anyway.
I'm not saying this to rag on larger people---I'm very large myself---but for her to assume "co-designer" status would make any designer fume. Honey, sketching on top of someone's design when a shot at 100K and Bryant Park is stake is just asking for cutting remark. As for the 2 years of design training, Maddie is proof that a little knowledge is dangerous.
Fun thought: Partnering Maddie with Victorya. Could you imagine Victorya try to force Maddie into one of her ace-bandages?
~Maharhar
Babies,
You know I love Miss Polly Pocket lotsa.
He is talented out the ears.
We have a similar aesthetic although perhaps I am a little more LA/streety/Sebelia-esque.
I am firmly on his corner despite his hmmmm, youthful exhuberance. Yep, that's it.
But this dress I could not agree more with you was a hot skorching mess.
There was nothing right with it and I was like wha..???? when Nina and Daniel V said that they actually liked it and that it looked like McQueen's tartan/tutu SJP dress ( which in my opinion, is one of the worst things McQueen has done and I worship him).
The construction was sloppy, the ornamentation misguided and excessive and the silhouette completely, like we say in medicine about the wrong drugs, counterindicated for that patient.
Taffeta is voluminous. Tulle is used to add volume. On someone who is already voluptuous ( and you know I defend and fight for the rights of voluptuosity harder than anyone on earth). The result is that Maddie looked like a pinata designed by Lanvin.
I am sorry, but on this one Sister Christian really missed the mark.
I definitely think that Ricky is the one that should have gone home because of his consistent issues with both design and construction, Christian deserved his steam bath in the bottom two.
Love,
Milla
Maddie's a teen, with a very inflated sense of ability. She's probably fancied herself as a "designer" without understanding what goes into it. Hate to say it, but almost every teen I've worked with has suffered from this to some degree.
Christian, on the other hand, is an adult who was acting like a teen. That he could handle her shows a lack of "people" skills, which hopefully will start to develop once he gets his first big job and has to start getting along and finds himself at the very bottom doing everyone's scut work.
I suggest that the Magical Elves ask Maddie to design and make (or have made) an outfit for Christian and present it to him at the Reunion show.
If he hadn't listened to her--and I have no doubt that nothing he could have said in their half hour together would have changed her mind in any way--then he would have been blamed for not listening to his client, because of course the judges would have found out she wasn't happy with the results.
There is much truth in Pyramus' words here.
It's very, "heads I win, tails you lose." The outcome was doomed once Christian was picked by Maddie.
I have a 19 year old daughter who's been to two proms. If she was ever lucky enough to be chosen for something like this, I would hope that she's been raised to be considerate of other people (not to mention grateful for things she gets!) and nobody would have to say to her, "Hey, don't grab the pencil out of the designer's hand and start designing your own dress. Don't fight him every step of the way, and don't be a giant pain in the ass. This isn't all about you."
Yes, it's true that to some extent all teenagers are self-focused. But surely somebody in the category of, "This guy's trying to win a life-changing contest but this is all about me," is in a class by themselves?
You just know that in 10 years she's going to be the biggest Bridezilla bitch anywhere, and in 50 she's going to be the "honest" aunt that everybody pretends is funny because she "speaks her mind" but really nobody wants to visit because she's just a bitch.
Spiral Jacobs said...
The tactic he should have tried, which might have worked, would have been to befriend her and act like her cool, gay older sister. That's what she wanted, really. If he had won her over with flattery and made her feel like she shared his lofty perch, then he could have said to her, "Girlfriend, I will make you look hot, you just have to trust me."
That is exactly what he should have done, Sprial Jacobs! And it would have worked too!
Diana Vreeland once said "Give them what they never knew the wanted.". And that is what Christian should have done. This girl had a strong opinion sure, so what? Christian is supposed to have worked with fucking Westwood and MoQueen do you think they have milk-toast personalities?
He could have made a beautiful dress, say something like one from that Supremes movie (What was it called?) anyway it could have wicky wack and look good. She would have loved it. Jesus, befriend you client. That kid sure needed one.
PS. Maddie you are beautiful. Stay strong!
Jesus, befriend you client. That kid sure needed one.
You're absolutely right, Spiral.
I read in another interview (I don't remember where), that the others girls were making fun of Maddie and talking nasty behind her back.
Perhaps that's the reason she's loud, obnoxious & opinionated? She needed someone to befriend her, and treat her like a Princess for this event.
Poor thing.... I'm feeling more and more empathy for her.
She looked like a lace covered profiterole in that dress. It really was a hot mess. But it was nice to see Christian get taken down a peg. His attitude has been so obnoxious that I just want to smack him and say 'smarten up!'
I am going to make fun of the shiny shiny vest. Christian is 21, right? So his prom was about 3 years ago, right? Were people wearing shiny vest to proms 3 years ago? Doubt it.
He may like puffiness, but his client was puffy enough, so he could tone it down and make her a fitter dress in a gorgeous dark purple or deep deep red hue. And no drapping at all. Hated the hairstyiling.
RICKY GO HOME, KEVIN COME BACK!
this dress reminded me of a bordello girl costume from a bad 60s Western. actually, from so many bad 60s Westerns that it fell apart at the seams and was hobbled back together with a stapler and some stitch witchery.
The ghost of all those Reese's cups that Christian threw away last week came back to haunt him in the form a dress that looks like one of their cousins imploded.
I'm inclined to cut Christian some slack in that he at least acknowledged that the dress was unfierce, unlike some of his competitors who send crap down the runway and proclaim it genius. (One of my pet PR peeves. If you know the outfit is garbage, say so. Everybody makes mistakes.)
Aaawh, show Christian some love! Go Maryland!
I think Maddie saw this as her "15 minutes" (or, more accurately, "the start of my 15 minutes"), so she acted accordingly. But I've got no tears for the Puffed one. Ugly dress, unprofessional behavior, ego, ego, ego. After the vigorous case made by TLo for aufing Puffy, I am reconsidering my vote for the Capped on to walk the plank.
I agree with Cathy. Lighten up on our precious Princess Puffy Sleeves will ya's?
Anybody who is in a professional position and has been around the block a few times knows that these moments of childish unprofessional behavior in the beginning of anybody's career is what shapes a person (quickly!) into being good at what they do. Call it a "crash course in what not to do or you'll get the shit smacked out of you." We've all been there at some point, yes?
This is hard swift kick is what Christian needed to teach him lessons that he will never forget. As do we all in our various professions, he needs to learn to "handle" people so that he can work his magic. Not the other way around.
Having said that, I disliked Maddy right from the get go becuase I knew that she would nearly derail Christian. When he and Ricky were the last two on the runway, I knew for sure he was toast.
He's one lucky little pocket gay diva-to-be with a big ego bruise that will hopefully heal into some professional common sense.
Both were unbelievably immature during the process. I half expected them to start shouting "I want to be the designer" "No, I WANT to be the designer". Only to have the final product look like a piece of melted chocolate.
Have to say Princess lost a little love from me when he was pouting and saying "Well, someone has to go home..." He was totally fishing for Tim to yank him up by the boot straps and give him a big ole attaboy speech. It was all so juvenile.
And if I have to see another pleated bodice from Princess I am going to scream! If he is half as big of a deal as he claims to be, he needs to start stepping up his game and reaching deeper into his bag of tricks.
No way should he have gone, and thank God he didn't. There was clear design here, even if he made a few mistakes. He tried to combine what his crazy-ass client wanted with his own POV. At least he has a POV! Ricky's was just as poorly made with nothing interesting at all.
Also, I felt oddly sad when Christian said he wasn't feeling fierce.
hello, i'm patsy stone said...
If he is half as big of a deal as he claims to be, he needs to start stepping up his game and reaching deeper into his bag of tricks.
I don't think his bag of tricks is very deep.
He talks the talk and has the "look" of a prodigy. But he's just not *that* phenomenal. Even Tim seems to be snowed.
Crow Winters said...
" This is the episode Christian stopped seeming like a cartoon character to me, and like an actual human being."
Profound.
Just throwing this question out as I have no idea. What style of dress would have been a better choice for this gal? All I know is round on round is probably not the most flattering on anyone.
I did really like the color.
But what would have worked better in terms of basic style? (I really don't know).
I agree that this dress was the worse, and based on that PPS shoulda been auf'd.
That being said...
I believe that Christian is probably the designer who will get most out of this competition. He DOES have talent and can be very technical too, but he's immature and full of himself (albeit funny!), which can be caused by the combination of youth+talent recognition.
The critics and tough clients are very important for him to work that side of him. That's why I think he's perfect for PR.
Ricky, OTOH....
Christian wanted this girl to look bad even if it sabotaged him right out of the competition.
I wonder if the poor kid will ever grow up. It's gonna be a shock when he finds he's no longer the youngest and there's a line of wunderkinds ready to shove him aside. Speaking from personal experience here - Ouch!
Thanks for the hilarious post, TLo!
Like others have already commented, if PP had pulled a VYa (listened to Miss Maddie's suggestions, and then did what he thought was right), he might have created something transforming instead of a lopsided cupcake mess. Thing is - not sure PP ever got over Miss Maddie's size. He seemed clueless about how to flatter her silhouette and defaulted to her ideas.
The PP/Miss Maddie train wreck WAS entertaining to watch - until PP almost got auf'ed. That's when PR4 (finally) became must-see tv for me!!
I actually think that Christian COULD have said, "Admittedly, I had a very difficult time with this challenge. My client and I had very different ideas, and trying to simultaneously please the client while working on something that conveyed my point of view was really difficult" -- and it would have been okay. And it's like he STARTED to go there but then just ended up with, "She's a tacky bitch and I hate her."
Princess says he's "All That" and for a guy that can fit into his own tote bag, that's one Big Ego in a small package. Maddie, like the Princess, thinks she is "All That 2" , just a little larger. Put those two together, and we saw the results. Too bad, I think they could have been BFF's, if he just could have been the sweetie we know he can be....
katiecoo said...
But what would have worked better in terms of basic style? (I really don't know).
I think a mermaid silhouette would look good on her. That is a fitted sheath that flairs out about knee level. No gathers at waist level and no shirring on the torso.
I honestly don't think it would have been all that difficult to make her look fabulous for her prom. Think Dreamgirls.
I completely disagree. I had a similar experience with Maddie's evil, soulless twin and was glad that Christian stuck up for himself, same as I did. I think Christian did the best he could do under the circumstances.
Honestly, I would have rather seen Ricky cry himself off stage with that shapeless P.O.S. or I REALLY would have liked to see Victorya bounced out for using a BeDazzler.
Let's face it, it's not easy for anyone to design eveningwear for a girl with a frontbutt. Proportions are totally thrown off and the only thing that would have looked half-way decent is some kind of shift in a luscious fabric.
Christian got screwed.
I feel sort of like your comment for Christian going home is a little hypocritical... It got mentioned that Kevin made much stronger pieces than Ricky and that should have gone into consideration... couldn't the same argument be made for Christian? Excepting that last dress for the candy challenge because I thought it was pretty heinous.
I'm not a huge Christian fan but I liked his garment a lot more than Ricky's. Ricky has had a history of barely finished work and poor designs (though his candy design seemed somewhat creative)... and he comes out with a boring design, boring color... and isn't even in the bottom two. I'm one of the Ricky-go-homers.
I feel sort of like your comment for Christian going home is a little hypocritical... It got mentioned that Kevin made much stronger pieces than Ricky and that should have gone into consideration...
No it didn't. The boys never said anything like that.
It would have been a travesty if Christian had been eliminated this week. Yes, he is too young to know how to handle a little Big Mouth Bulldozer with hideous taste, but did YOU know how to handle such a situation at age 21?
Ricky should have been auf'd, and Chris March should have WON this competition. Chris' prom dress was WAY better than anyone else's!
i don't think he threw Maddie under the bus. he just told the truth. it was obvious he wasn't happy with the outcome, but that's better than bullshitting his way through it like VictorYa did in the Hershey's challenge.
contraindicated is what we say, just saying, in medicine
Feast of Fools, a podcast, just did an audio interview (1/11/08) with Christian and he was actually quite nice about Maddie (and was genuine). He didn't think the dress was his best and I agree. However there are plenty of other designers who need to go first. Ricky being on top of my list.
Based on the not-so-subtle editing and poor judging...I predict that Christian is going to win it all. I base it on the S1 and S3 editing and setups of both Jay and Jeff.
Mark my words Ladies!
I always wonder what someone like Yves St. Laurent or Lagerfeld would have done when *they* were in their early 20's in these sorts of situations.
I don't believe either one of them would have ever found themselves in the position of dealing with a finger-snapping black belle / bully in the first place. And really, in real life, how often would Michael Kors or any designer find themselves in a situation of having to design for or work with this particular sort of person either?
I don't think it's fair to judge Christian because he was thrown into a situation that would never, ever, happen in the real world. His dress was a mess, but the bimbo deserved a mess and will go through her tacky little life receiving messes because that's what she's demanding. At least Christian has performed before and probably will again so I'm assuming he has some talent.
This dress and this client should be treated like one over-night fit of the stomach flu, not to be remembered nor judged and then go from here.
And I think Nina Garcia over-reacted in her criticism. Why are we never, ever, allowed to criticize people of color when they're misbehaving?
After I pulled myself up from my floor where'd I landed on my ass when Vcryaito won, I thought about the PP-Maddie synergy.
And decided that was too deep. So I went back to the computer and rewatched part of the show.
1. Maddie was the most un-model-like person up there (i.e. the shortest, the roundest, the rarest skin-toned, the shortest torso). I really believe any designer left would have had the biggest challenge with her body type. Period. And PP got her.
2. PP got half an hour not only to have to listen to Maddie list off *exactly* what she wanted and how she wanted it but also to recoup, look at her, figure out how to make the best of her body type and get her to shut the fug up.
Again, I really doubt any of the other designers would have breezed through this experience, either.
3. So how was he suppose to counter what she said? He obviously didn't have a *clue* what to make for her that would make her look fab. She, obviously, didn't have a clue about what would make her look fab, either.
I'm reading the comments about how PP should have voiced his opinions but I can honestly say I think every one of the remaining designers would have had an equally awful time trying to figure out how to balance what Maddie wanted/demanded and what Maddie would actually look good in.
I mean, just look how the others handled the women who lost weight (and weren't in their late-teens/early-twenties or size 0-4s still) - either the designs were mall-ish, older, unsophisticated and, in Chris' case, 'costumey'. The mens' ware challenge resulted in a couple of terrible misses, too, including Sweet P being unable to make a simple collar and a few making hideous pants fits that came damned near to showing us the male equivalent of camel toes.
All of the designers don't do particularly well once they're out of their ideal-model comfort zone and all of them get worse the farther away that comfort zone gets.
So, really, from a purely strategic view, the only thing I could see PP doing is exactly what he did; if you're drawing a complete creative design blank for a body that you've never considered ever designing for, do with what the client wants so she'll at least be happy you tried and try to ingrain a bit of your design aesthetic on the result.
Strange thing is, I didn't think the dress was all that bad - kinda blackgrrrrl Gothic? Which, for all I knew, was what Maddie was envisioning from the start.
Among the many flaws of Christian's "design" career thus far, he seems to have no regard for the relation between colors and humans, and can't get out of 80s music videos. If the color choice is proof he is a "designer instead of a dressmaker" and the client should just let him do what he does, then maybe he should look at whether he wants to actually work with people of color.
Just out of curiosity, does anybody else think that Christian's "prom date" looks like Ricky in drag?
NahnCee said...
And I think Nina Garcia over-reacted in her criticism. Why are we never, ever, allowed to criticize people of color when they're misbehaving?
What a grotesque thing to say.
"nahncee said: I don't believe either one of them would have ever found themselves in the position of dealing with a finger-snapping black belle / bully in the first place. And really, in real life, how often would Michael Kors or any designer find themselves in a situation of having to design for or work with this particular sort of person either?"
Um...Actually, Kors is exactly the same 'sort of person' as Maddie, (a demanding & petulant diva).
Beyond that, again, it is completely ignorant to bring race, and racist remarks, into the discussion of this show or the challenges (beit about the designers or the models). People who do so, clearly, only do it as an excuse to rationalize and spout off about their own ignorant prejudices.
The only color that matters in this discussion is the fabric.
Maybe you should go back to watching Bill O'Reilly. I'm sure he's got a loofah with your name on it (he'll serve it to you with some motherf&*#ing ice tea).
--GothamTomato
Christian was sad because he was reduced to being a dressmaker, not a designer, in this challenge. Maddie wanted a chain on the dress, too, and I seem to recall her asking for rhinestones, too. So I think Christian edited those things out, as well as the gold and white she asked for.
This was a good learning process for Christian. Now he knows to stand up to your client right from the start, lest you be miserable until the garment is done.
poor Christian. absolutely NOTHING about this dress was flattering, stylish or appropriate for his model. plus he was given the most obnoxious girl possible. (like you said, probably planned by the producers...let's be honest.)
I couldn't help but think about that what's her face girl from last season, Bonnie, when in her audition tape she said something to the tune of:
"I worked with Serena Williams, which was interesting because she fancied herself as a bit of a designer so I always had to pass it off like my ideas were her ideas."
...hmm it seems Christian would have done well to use some of that same tact.
Am I the only one who had flashbacks of Duckie Dale at the prom when they showed Christian's prom pic? What a sense of deja vu.
And as for the challenge. You don't ever blame the customer for your inability to "be" the designer. It was very much like the bridal gown challenge when some of the designers gave in to demands of their models against their better judgement. Frankly that dress was a loser.
Cindi
NahnCee said...
And I think Nina Garcia over-reacted in her criticism. Why are we never, ever, allowed to criticize people of color when they're misbehaving?
Oh dear god! Could you at least use a singular pro-noun when making a statement like that? Who the fuck is "we" anyway?
Now,is it any wonder that Maddie is as assertive as she is? One has to wonder how many of Nahncee's sort she has run across in her short life.
NahnCee - "we" would all like you to know that you are misbehaving.
Me: "Candy Crawford".
Aaaaaugh! Cindy Crawford. My only excuse is that it was after 1 a.m.
For those who keep saying PP "will learn" when he has to work as an underling, he already has -- he talks in interviews about churning out dresses for his employers (Westwood and the other one). That's how he learned to sew so fast.
He'll learn because we all do, but he's already had much more experience than most 21-yr-olds.
I think he was actually fairly nice to Maddie. When she was pulling away from him, during the fitting, I think she was pointing the finger and getting into it with some of the other girls. As we know, they didn't like her and were calling her a loser and such names.
Ok is that Kelly Clarkson in his prom pic? With the blonde hair?!
I still think Ricky should have gone home.
Gotham Tomato said:
Beyond that, again, it is completely ignorant to bring race, and racist remarks, into the discussion of this show or the challenges (beit about the designers or the models). People who do so, clearly, only do it as an excuse to rationalize and spout off about their own ignorant prejudices.
Thanks GT - well said. Attributing personality traits based on ethnicity or other broad categories is just wrong and is inappropriate to ANY discussion.
Re Christian and Maddie - I would have liked to seen how one of the more mature designers would have managed this client. SweetP did steer her client away from a neckline that would have been inappropriate, and in the end, the client was happy. Victorya made changes without consulting the client (understandable given that she couldn't consult a second time), but I think Maddie would have been terribly unhappy with the radical change when she saw the dress. Wonder what Rami would have done - he seems pretty committed to his vision, just as Maddie was to her own view. That would have been an interesting drama.
Sometimes it is not that we disagree with a customer, but how we disagree. Diplomacy means being able to say, "That design would make you look like a burst cushion!" and have the client say, "Why thank you!"
Thank you, happy mama - Duckie! It's been driving me batshit for days now; he was channeling Duckie! You know, though, PP really is such a baby... maybe eighties is retro-chic to him? He keeps getting called on it, and if Maddie's dress hadn't been such a trainwreck in so many other ways, he would have this time, too. I distinctly remember wearing a (much better executed) version of that silhouette at least four or five times back in the day.
I didn't hate PP's dress, but it was all wrong for Maddie. I have the same issue with the color that I have with Ricky's dress. The shape didn't flatter her at all. PP gave up the ghost and just settled for his dress to be as it was. Too bad, because he could have made it fabulous.
As far as the war of the wills, both Maddie and PP were out of line. He's got limited people skills and didn't take the high road when it came to Maddie's demands. He should have been killing her with kindness, to which she either would have backed off or dug her heels in deeper. If PP didn't learn about handling difficult clients from this challenge, shame on him. Will see what happens next episode.
Ya'll are right. Duckie should have put his foot down and design the dress the way he wanted to
Ever wonder what Stalinists were like? Deal with a 17 year old girl who isn't getting her way immediately and KNoWs they are right fer shur. They are relentless.
Christian was out of his comfort zone with this young lady in regards to shape. It isn't easy to fit shapes that are outside of the sizing standards. I sew for myself and am always having to tweak things. It takes time. They don't have lots of time on these challenges, no time to do a muslin (or 2--one in an alternate style) which would have worked wonders to show the young lady that the silhouette was a poor choice and also for Christian to ascertain the fitting issues as her front had so much volume-- I think he did not buy enough fabric.
He has worked with a client on the show that was articulate in what she wanted, gave him strict color limits and he did very well. I think they threw him a hard to fit body shape because he is generally very skilled in construction speed and technical execution. He does all the pleating and poufiness to show off because they are generally time consuming style points and can be screwed up very easily. I bet he does these techniques often in his job.
I'm not surprised the young girl's attitude doesn't win her many friends. She has a difficult personality. This was a situation that needed time and patience and a little Mom interference.
DUCKIE!!!!
Oh, Christian truly is an 80s boy at heart.
I kind of liked the color of that dress, and frankly, so many of the dresses were bad that there was no way Christian should've gone home for this. It was bad enough to see him in the bottom two.
Seeing Kevin and Christian standing there with their bowed heads and realizing one of them was going home when Freaky Ricky was walking free... just, no.
And sorry, but even though Sweet P pulled a nice dress out of her fingers, doesn't mean she should stay. She and Ricky must be the next to go, or this show has become a travesty. I agree she shouldn't be sent home when she send a nice garment down the runway, but Ricky's dress was a piece of s**t and he walked! That's just...
And enough about their talent and blah-blah-blah. The PR 3 alumni had three time the talent and the personality of that bunch, and I miss them every time I watch PR 4.
"I honestly don't think it would have been all that difficult to make her look fabulous for her prom. Think Dreamgirls."
And that's exactly what SHE WANTED.
She wanted to look like Jennifer Hudson on the cover of Vogue.
Problem 1: Jennifer has about 8 inches on Maddie.
Problem 2: PP had NO IDEA what Maddie's psychology was and couldn't pick that up from her -- and there was no idea she could communicate it.
Problem 3: A mermaid silhouette would have looked FABULOUS on her. Would PP ever have done it? He would have pouted and howled and said something that simple was "not in his strict aesthetic." Whatever.
Problem 1: This one is especially exacerbated if the other girls were picking on Maddie behind her back and she heard them (or it was meant for her to hear). Chubby girls know they are chubby. They are USED TO aunts and moms shopping with them after they've looked in the magazines and having it said to them, "That doesn't suit you, dear. HERE'S something that will look good on you ..." that is fug and looks NOTHING like what the other kids have. Ms. Thing was gonna have what she wanted THIS ONE TIME, if it never happened again in her life.
Problem 1: Her taste level. She thinks all stars wear all sparkly stuff all the time.
Solutions, like Ms. Siren says: Mermaid silhouette.
Deep purple (IMO she could even have gotten away with bronze, just a warmer bronze than what - ever - they used; but she probably didn't have the color vocabulary for that).
Sparkly ACCESSORIES (even a tiara, if PP could stand not to be the one wearing it).
Now. I ask you all who think he was blameless in this thing.
Do you honestly think he WOULD have suborned his ego to actually make her look good?
Yeah, I'm late. Yeah, he's already been crowned the next big thing.
But I'm the one who gave him the share of the perfume market.
And no fashinos ever stand up for the chubby girls who've been stepped on their whole lives and as a result, the one time the door opens a crack say "I'm the diva here!" and hell rains down on their heads.
Not this time, bitchez. :D
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