Wednesday, January 23, 2008 by
Author
Well, we're out of dresses to make fun of so how about a little mid-season report card?
Darlings, we think we have our finger on the pulse of PR fandom, and we
think it's safe to say that one cry has rung out loud and clear over and over. "This season sucks."
We disagree.
Now, that doesn't mean we don't have problems with the current season and (opinionated bitches that we are) we'll happily outline them for you, but for the most part, Project Runway is what it's always been: a reality television show nominally based on a fashion design competition.
Here's the thing: is this season a little boring compared to previous ones? A little. But we think this charge is somewhat overblown. Season 3 saw the show reach new heights of popularity and you
couldn't swing a knockoff LV from Canal Street without hitting a magazine cover starring Heidi or Tim. Then there was the excruciatingly long wait between seasons. PR fans waited so long for season 4 to start that we suspect that nothing was ever going to live up to their expectations. Couple that with Sir Tim's rather unwise over-the-top exclamation pre-season that this was the most talented group of designers in the history of the world and you have a recipe for disappointment.
The show for the most part is as it ever was: lock a bunch of designers in Parson's basement, feed them bread and water, make them jump through flaming hoops performing tricks that have little to do with the real world of fashion, have Tim look concerned and then have the three judges sit with a representative from the real world of fashion and complain that the results look "rushed." That's the formula and that's what it's always been.![](https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg0CA50JFvA-JLcT9u4z7KkAjwvVS1vtp5kIP6j6v8hRn3tONPd9ZYETF8ptxV7c9RFgkoa0GASuEviaDWYiZd97em3jvWgqCZqPMzwnBFFfa67rewniuRTT7YhT6sVXKNBCDsMgA/s200/SweetP1.jpg)
Now, one could argue that perhaps it's time to switch up the formula a bit and we have to say, part of us likes the idea. Maybe the franchise needs a slight rethink before the inevitable Season
5 rolls around. On the other hand, these sorts of things don't tend to work out well. More often than not, producing a successful TV show is a crap shoot and the producers themselves don't always know why a show becomes a hit. Tweaking an already successful format could lead to disastrous results. As we said, part of us likes the idea but we have to conclude that it's not worth the chance that it could ruin the show.
Why are so many online commenters proclaiming it the worst season ever? It's not the format. And despite what some people have said, it's not the challenges. The challenges this season have been pretty much in line with previous seasons: the producers put roadblocks in the way of the designers, whether they be material constraints or model constraints or time constraints, in order to heighten the tension and see who can produce something fabulous under such circumstances.
Yeah, there are probably too many team challenges and we still say that designing something to be worn on the Today Show represented a low fabulosity point for the show. We'd rail against the over-the-top product placement of the Hershey's challenge but in that instance, the results were fun so we can't complain that much.
So
if it's not the format and it's not the challenges, what is it? Well, we hate to say it but it's the participants. There were rumors last year that the producers were having trouble finding worthy contestants. To their credit, they found a talented group of designers. Problem is, there's a serious personality deficit going on here. We're sure they're all loaded with personality in person, but they're all FAR too aware of how they want to come across on camera and since most of them have fairly well established careers already, no one's going to make an ass out of themselves and the show is suffering because of it.
Fans always say "I don't watch the show for drama" and we say in response "Honey? Bullshit." We always used to say if it was an hour of professionals calmly stitching, the show would be boring. Guess what? A lot of S4 has been
about professionals calmly stitching. Where are the hungry over-the-top personalities of yesteryear? The Kaynes and Santinos and Lauras and Jays and Ulis and Jeffreys and Andraes and even the Vincents and Angelas and Wendys? There's a reason Christian's become the breakout star of the season: he's the only one willing to be himself one hundred percent on camera. The producers tried like crazy to make Elisa into the wacky one, but in the end she was just a quirky, gentle artist unsuitable for reality TV. Jack showed promise but unfortunately he had to leave and Chris' aufing really sobered him up. He's been quiet and businesslike since his return. We suspect the producers thought they had a goldmine in the tattoo'd biker chick persona of Sweet P only to have her wind
up actually being sweet and more than a little befuddled by the whole thing. It was fun watching Ricky cry the first 30 times but it's gotten old and Rami, VictorYA, Jillian, Kevin, Steven, Marion and Kit just didn't want to put themselves out there too much.
If we had to offer the producers one bit of advice, it's this: we, the fans of PR, don't want to see mature, established professionals concerned with their self-image. We want to see raw, crazy talent unafraid to take chances, have fights and get drunk. Not only is it more entertaining, they tend to produce more interesting garments too.
[Photos: Bravotv.com]
237 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 1 – 200 of 237 Newer› Newest»Amen, sisters!
i totally agree!
I LOVE that you completely forgot to mention Carmen (like the opera)Weber (like the grill..er, I mean "baller").
10Q beddy beddy much TLo.
Right on, with one quibble. Christian's interviews seem to indicate that he isn't being himself, but rather, he's being the bitch he needs to be to standout on a reality TV show. Like Wendy Pepper, but with talent. Makes sense, actually. He's the youngest, and he knows what TV can do for him -- the Sanjaya Malakar of Bravo!
"We're sure they're all loaded with personality in person, but they're all FAR too aware of how they want to come across on camera and since most of them have fairly well established careers already, no one's going to make an ass out of themselves and the show is suffering because of it."
That's exactly it!
"wannabe said...
Right on, with one quibble. Christian's interviews seem to indicate that he isn't being himself, but rather, he's being the bitch he needs to be to standout on a reality TV show. Like Wendy Pepper, but with talent. Makes sense, actually. He's the youngest, and he knows what TV can do for him -- the Sanjaya Malakar of Bravo!"
Christian is EXACTLY the same in person if not "worse" in person. Trust me on that one.
I think the contestants should be given a litle more time with the challenges and the show needs Iman to be the new judge.
"We want to see raw, crazy talent unafraid to take chances, have fights and get drunk. Not only is it more entertaining, they tend to produce more interesting garments too."
True story.
Are you paying attention, Bravo?! We *know* you people read this blog. Now, please, take notes.
kthxbai.
So true!
There has been some really bad construction. They need to give them a little more time to polish the outfits.
So true!
There has been some really bad construction. They need to give them a little more time to polish the outfits.
I think you forgot Kev too
amen, I miss all the bitchy drama. You can only stare at Rami for so long before you wish he would break out and be the bitch that you know is lurking there.
WORDS. OUT. OF. MY. MOUTH.
Not in that particular order or phrased quite that eloquently, but yup, that's how I feel about it.
Yes! Yes! Yes! Although I'm having total fun/excitement w/ this season. But I admit, at least half of that is reading this blog. I do miss a good Santino..if Stephen had stayed around I think we'd have gotten more of that entertainment. He was just warming up. It's not so much the bickering amongst them I like but the oddball personalities (like Santino's impressions) that jerk my chain.
Still, it's the best thing on TV, hands down even with some lukewarm moments. I mean Tim Gunn? And the Duchess? Just can't go wrong there.
I don't know. I like this season more than season three (maybe it was the outcome, ugh), but I really yearn for Season 2. That was above and beyond my favorite, not because of the drama, but actually the camaraderie. Nick, Andrae, Daniel, Santino, and even Emmett... don't you want to seem them all get together again? Season three had very little of that, and this season doesn't have much either.
Damn it, I want to see some blossoming friendships! I want to see inside jokes and singing and friendly shit talking (Daniel V's comment about Kara's "JCPenney basic" was great)!
I've enjoyed this season very much. I actually like the more even-keeled personalities, but then again I like BBC gardening shows.
My biggest complaint is the seemingly shifting criteria of the judging. For example, Tim Gunn tells the designers "Do wearable" and the 1940's cigarette girl wins.
I agree totally. This season is really no different than past seasons other than they have a bunch of really low key people for the most part.
High strung people who love to argue make good tv, but I am sure it is hard to find that combination with talent.
I have pretty much loved this season so far. I loved the menswear challenge. It was hilarious watching the crap sent down the runway.
Dear God, that picture of Sweet P in a babydoll dress with knee socks, clutching her crotch and sticking her butt out is seriously going to give me nightmares. Was she trying to be sexy? Or did she just have an itch?
For me part of the fun is having a villain that I can hate. There's really no one this season who fits the bill. Victorya is a passive-aggressive beyotch but she doesn't bother me at all, really. Christian annoys the hell out of me and I'd love to see someone bitch-slap him but mostly he's amusing. Besides, he gets crushed so easily - you can see it on his face when he doesn't win. It's hard to hate someone with such a fragile sense of self.
And while I like(d) Chris, Elisa and love looking at Rami, there's no one I truly adore and am rooting for, as I did Laura last season. So, yes, personality deficit all around.
I don't think that this season sucks at all. An off-season of Project Runway is so much better than most TV.
Agreed. But I also think the producers have focused too much on having the designers make "wearable," commercial garments.
--Montserrat.
Seems like adolecent growing pains. I agree that the designers need more time. As a designer myself, I know it is difficult to pull something fabulous out of my a** with out enough time to completey digest the challenge. Give them an hour to sketch, and a day and a half to sew! Perhaps they will then let their designs change and evolve as they are developed.
As for personalities, I also agree there seems to be a lot of blah going on. If they would just get toasted and shave Christian's head (like they tried to do to Marcel on TopChef) that could be hysterical!! Or they could dress Ricky up as Raggedy Anne and post pics on the internet! (wait, that might make Ricky happy!)
Hmmm, I kind of agree and kind of don't.
Yes, the designers are a little too composed, and yes, some drama makes for fun TV. But episodes from past seasons focused soooo much on personality conflicts that you have no idea how the clothes (remember those?) actually got made. I'll take less drama from more composed professionals if those pro designers actually give us amazing clothes! Until the avante-garde challenge, I have not been wowed by one single garment this season. Some have been good, some have been horrible, but until the Chris/Christian design, I have never sat forward in awe or felt goosebumps from the kinetic sexiness like I did with Dan V.'s Nicky Hilton dress or almost any of Kara Saun and Jay's designs. At the end of the day, this is a design competition - I want to see amazing designs!
My second point is one you guys didn't touch on at all. The judges this season are B-O-R-I-N-G. Kors has not had one good, witty, bitchy, quotable quip all season and he and Nina and Heidi pretty much agree on every single thing, as do the guest judges (for the most part). There's no debates, no other POV's represented, no alternative takes on fashion and style, nothing. It's a disservice to the designers (just because a Kors or Garcia doesn't like it doesn't automatically equal failure) and to the viewers.
OK, I think I'm done now. I'll warn you before I start rambling again.
(OK, just remembered: where's the fun this season? Remember the Nicky Hilton party? Heidi: "Let's pop some bottles!" Why not let the designers have some FUN?)
Agreed. Also, having PR Canada to watch in the interim didn't help. They needed to find a Bidell for Season 4.
Absolutely dead on. I became fully aware of this on being confronted with the fan favorite poll over at BPR. No warm fuzzy personal feelings about any of them. Just dry opinions about their work. I miss the quirkiness and the laughs. They're all being so careful.
Nice. This story is very well put.
I tend to agree.
Here's a bit of trivia - take it or leave it. I've heard through the grapevine that contestants / bloggers from past seasons 1, 2 & 3 are some of the ones saying & posting negative things about this season 4. Tim's comment at the start (as you mention) got them upset and there they went.....
I've been enjoying it myself - always have.
I started to complain about the judging, but it really isn't their fault. The judging is all arbitrary. Not based on set guidelines. It is based on the judges opinions, which sucks I know, but that is why we have the wacky outcomes.
Yup. Spot on...again.
The spontaneity is missing. Kind of like going to see Rocky Horror one too many times....
anonymous 12:06, I'll have to trust you regarding Christian's IRL persona. If it's actually more, no wonder he wants to be seen as "acting"! (Unless I've grossly misunderstood his comments, which is truly possible).
Shaking it up -- how about a PR for the judges? Wouldn't you love to see Kors, Posen and Vera Wang have to remember how to thread a sewing machine and put a garment together under excruciating circumstances? Winner gets a gift to his/her favorite charity.
Girls you've done it again. You've hit the nail DIRECTLY on the head! Andy, Rich? Are you boys reading this?
Yeah, there have been some challenges that suck and we all hate team challenges but that has been true every season. This season is fine.
I think you are mostly right about the designers except that I honestly don't watch the show to see people screaming at each other. But It would be nice if they were more interesting and daring. I don't like having mostly established designers on the show but, on the other hand, it was painful to watch designers who didn't know how to make patterns or use sewing machines. They need to find a ballance.
I think as the seasons go on, more and more of the designers are too professional and indeed have experience either with their own labels or working with another big designer. There are few "nobodies" who have nothing to lose and therefore are more likely to give each challenge his or her all. With this year's contestants being the most experienced bunch so far, they do have something to lose, and therefore produce uniformly mediocre products.
Maybe as Anon 12:12 says, it's "adolescent growing pains," but it's also possible that the show has peaked. I have a friend who points out the HBO doesn't try to keep its successful series going forever; they know when enough is enough and go out on a high.
I still enjoy PR, but I feel less involved this season. Is it me, or is it the show? Don't know. I don't understand the claims that this is the most talented bunch ever; seems about the same to me, but there are fewer highs, fewer surprises--and I agree with you, Boys, that people aren't taking enough chances.
I've always loved that unlike a lot of reality shows, PR requires that people have real skill and imagination so they can make something out of nothing -- I love and admire that -- and that it encourages originality (unlike, say, American Idol, where the the better you can imitate, the more likely you are to do well). This season, they still have to have the skill, but I'm seeing less vision, less point of view from the group as a whole. Yeah, maybe it's personality--or letting personality show in front of the cameras--but if so, it was also about personality showing in designs. We saw Uli's personality in her designs, Kara Saun's in hers, Jay's, Laura's, Santino's, etc. Now. . . sorry, but I'm not really seeing that so much.
" eric3000 said...
I think you are mostly right about the designers except that I honestly don't watch the show to see people screaming at each other. "
Nobody said anything about having people screaming at each other. If I read the post correctly, it's more about having the designers act a little more spontaneously. I mean, most of the time, they're whispering to each other.
I agree with you TLo except for a couple of points. I don't think you need to have drama/fighting for the show to be interesting, at least for me. I think Chris is the most interesting person to watch, with Christian coming in second, and they pretty much get along with everybody.
I do agree that people are more self-aware than in earlier seasons, but that would be true even if they weren't seasoned professionals. Contestants on later versions of popular reality shows act differently, whether better or worse, because they've had a chance to see what plays on camera for that show. Jeffrey (ack!) was a prime example of that. And that is part of what made him different from Jay. Plus now, participants know all you need to do is get to Bryant Park, not necessarily win.
The other part is that the folks who are the constants on the show, Tim and the judges, aren't entertainers coming up with a different act every episode. At some point, they become kind of repetitive because they're doing the same thing every episode. "Make it work" was fun for awhile, but no one wants to hear him say that all the time. The duchess is clever, but it's hard to keep topping yourself. And Nina and Heidi are Nina and Heidi.
I do think there is a limited pool of talented, interesting designers who are willing to be on a reality show, even a good one. At some point, that pool will get a little shallow. Has that already happened? I don't know, but it will eventually. And that's when they'll need to auf the show for sure.
I don't think they should be using established designers on the show. It's kinda like cheating. I think it would be better with all designers that are just starting out.
I think PR Canada also spoiled me because it had so much of what we loved about S1 here. PR Canada with its raw, young talent coming out just before S4 really only made it more obvious that this season has been all about boring professionalism.
BRAVO - BRAVO ... Thank for always stating exactly what is inside my head ... you guys ROCK!
Rebekah from Minnesota - BURR ... it sucks here!
At least if the problem is the designers, it's something they can fix easily enough for Season 5. There are so many applicants now that they can surely find fifteen interesting personalities who can design and sew.
I suppose it's hard for the producers to tell in advance, though. Remember Jillian's audition tape? She was waaaaay out there, and now she's all boring and professional. They've had to resort to showing her upset at the sewing machines to get drama out of her.
I don't actually mind the team challenges so much. Sure, they're rough if your favorite gets aufed, but they produce more drama than individual challenges. I would love to see a battle of the seasons where teams from each season compete. See Jeffrey and Laura try to work together! Make Santino take orders from Chloe! You might get a lot of hot messes, but it sure would be fun.
Whoever it was who said they miss the comraderie of season 2 was spot on. That was drama, but in a positive way. Not coincidentally, it was when the show was at its peak. Even when Nick and Santino weren't speaking to each other, you didn't get the same negative vibe you did about Angela and Jeffrey.
Are this season's designers even making friends with each other? We don't know (auf'd designer interviews aside) because we don't see it.
I love this season. I'd like to see a little more from less established designers, but frankly, this is hardly the worst season. S2 takes that cake. All personality, no design talent.
And it's still better then Project Catwalk.
I think we are reaching the conundrum of a show like PR. It's a problem a show like American Idol has recently sufferred. Getting good talent that make good tv.
Last season the personailities/drama overwhelmed the talent aspect. This season we have on the whole a very experienced group of designers who do have a lot of talent to their creds. However they are not necessarily great competitiors for a reality tv show.
TLO nailed it with people being guarded and protective. Some one like Elisa was not meant for this show even though I found very endearing. Even the acts of kindness and friendship come across low key.
I understand the idea of getting more experienced people was to ensure folks who can handle the pressure better. But more experienced or talent does not guarentee that as we see this season.
Personally I don't want the designers to get more time. The constraints are all aprt of the weeding out process. Constraints and stress can produce incredible results. S3 Michael is proof of that.
Frank
i agree. we want raw talent. drunk talent. real talent. not media whores with agendas.
I think the initial challenges weren't as interesting as what people normally expect. The later challenges seem to be more interesting and creative. Usually its the other way around. I am enjoying the season, and I like it better than season 3 which was filled with too much rancor.
I wouldn't mind seeing another menswear challenge in upcoming seasons, but they need to make it a more interesting and creative. A dress shirt and dress pants?
I have a feeling they were expecting Elisia and Steven to be bigger characters. She just came across as sweetly daft, and he was dull to the point of genius (to quote the great Tennessee Williams).
Madam Ovary said:
"I've enjoyed this season very much. I actually like the more even-keeled personalities, but then again I like BBC gardening shows."
Ha! I know. I watch this season, and think, "God, these people are boring," but then I remember last season and how I winced and hit mute at the sheer nastiness spewing from many episodes, and then I take the complaint back.
But I do think the challenges could really be kicked up a notch, both in originality and in giving them just a touch more time to DO SOMETHING impressive. I think the comments sections showed resoundingly this week that tacking on the RTW challenge produced only a mild amount of drama and forgettable clothes. And to the poster who suggested getting Michael Kors to sew... I'd love to see a challenge where they have to design FOR Michael Kors as he has only one look as seen on the show!
It's turning out to be a good season, but it's definitely been slower off the mark. The fascination is just now starting to kick in, after most of the contestants have left. Remember how Wendy Pepper took command of her season almost from the first episode (her evil stitching in the laundromat will never leave me).
Another problem is socialability. For chrissakes, if these people won't get drunk, GET THEM DRUNK. Why hasn't there been a communal trip to the bar yet, so some Robert can fall and break his head trying to impress a girl?
Thirdly, you need models for EXTRA drama, and there's no Morgan, and thus no bipolarism and no ripped garments coming home from nightclubs at 6 AM.
Lastly, I heartily concur with the criticism of the judges. Heidi is boring, and as far as I'm concerned Michael and Nina are downright evil, and need to be flung off the top of the nearest high building. There are several in the immediate neighborhood I can recommend.
The participants are cool - it's the judges that are bringing the season down. Give us some fresh eyes please.
Right on fellas!
I miss the "kids" of previous seasons. Why not make the contest open only to students or people with less industry experience. The hunger and energy of the first two seasons has completely petered out.
And give them some alcohol dammit! I don't think they've had one party this season...at least not on camera. I'd like to see VictorYA potted and dancing a la Dirty Diana...
Hear, hear!
Other than the goofy ass judging, I like this season. I think there are plenty of great personalities that have simply been outshone by our little pocket princess.
Christian has strutted and preened his way around and over the other participants (in terms of being a "character"). Let's face it, one reason I think we either love him or hate him is because he represents that insecure, but daring to dream of greatness, 9th grader on the first day of school inside all of us. How can anyone else compete with that?
Sissybear has all the makings of a great character, too. From the previews last night, it looks like we may start to see some of it finally come to the fore.
Rami, Victorya, and Jillian have all occasionally seemed on the verge of breaking out with personality, but I think they're far too worried how they may appear. Which, of course, makes them look worse. Rami's take charge attitude last week -- for ill or for good -- was a big step. Perhaps the others will follow suit.
SweetP needs to let MeanP out for a little fun (for us -- heee hee!) and remember that she made it to the show for a reason. She also needs to pee if that photo is any indication.
Ricky needs a box of Kleenex.
Are my assessments based on fact or just on how the designers are edited? I have no idea. This is what I have to work with. That's all any of us has to work with. That doesn't mean we can't embellish each designer's "story" in our minds, though. And that, fellow fans, is half the fun.
1 thing I need to add. The producers can do something to improve the pool of models. Letsa face it is hard on them in the extent that after season 1, the girls committ of lot of their time to the show for nothing except meals. It wouldn't kill the show to give them a little more incentive. Good models make a big difference on the runway. Just even watching Make Me a Supermodel or ANTM is proof of that.
Why else for all the fighting over Lea.
Chloe said in her BPR podcast interview she owes part of her success on the show to her model Grace. In her opinion Grace elevated many of her designs. She felt the show was very lucky to get Grace since she had a lot of creds and successes in her resume including major runways in NY and Milan.
That was something lacking as we can agree in this group of girls. Even Morgan from S1 for all her immaturity knew how to sell a dress on the runway!
Frank
You guys got it basically right, as usual. For a future filler piece, may I suggest ruminations on S4 and that maddening phrase "Point of View"?
Even taking into consideration the problemmatic vagueness of that all-important phrase, I just don't feel like we've seen much of it this season. Draping is not a POV. "Fierce" could be a POV, maybe, or perhaps more accurately the foundation of a POV. "Modern" might have some hope as a POV, but, by S4, it just seems meaningless. I can't think of any other POV candidates from S4; nothing like Laura's seemingly congenital POV that elegance is the Prime Directive; nor Jay's POV that ugliness is necessary to wake people up.
Anyway, I'm confident that you Ladies Who Bitch can analyze the subject better than I. Consider it!
P.S. I totally get the feeling Nina, Michael, and Heidi are playing quarters with valium before each runway. They are my sole bone of contention this season.
I think you have to remember, that the season doesn't ever coalesce until half way though. When half of the designers have been auf'd, then we have a chance to overhear their banter while working on their challenges.
My real problem with the "Bravorealityshows" is all the damned interviews...and then suddenly on the runway we see a garment that we never saw at all during the earlier part of the show!! urghhhh
I'm also finding Tim's parachuting in and merely remarking "make it work" somewhat tiresome, and I adore that man.
"We want to see raw, crazy talent unafraid to take chances, have fights and get drunk. Not only is it more entertaining, they tend to produce more interesting garments too."
That sums it all up right there. :3 I kind of miss Wendy Pepper now.
Can we PLEASE get new judges? They're broken records by this point. And they always agree on everything. There's no reason Kors and Nina need to be around for season 5.
Well, personally, I've been enjoying this season as much as the previous ones. I'd like even less of the contrived drama and a little more of the creative process, but I know I must endure my dramatic dark leaf vegetables in order to enjoy my creative dessert.
One thing I'd really enjoy (and I know most of the viewers would probably find it boring), but I'd LOVE it if they would show the original sketches done by the designers, before they go to Mood. Especially if they would show it just before the model walks down the runway. I am very intrigued to see how the garment changes during the process.
Also, why not some more of this from the models point of view. The Runway wouldn't exist without the odd-bodied gals and this process is really arbitrary for them . . . I don't know why, but I'm very curious about how they feel about the designers, which ones they'd like to work with, etc, etc.
Thanks guys for your little commentary.
- Donna
I agree with rain brain and fnarf and those who lay some of the responsibility for this season with Sir Tim and the judges. I feel like we don't see Tim as much as we used to last year, and that he doesn't seem as engaged. And perhaps we could use some fresh eyes judging the designs. AND, as much as I don't pay too much attention to the models, there is absolutely no drama there - I haven't even seen one that can produce a good stomp down the runway! I miss Camilla. I do think Bravo should pay the models something.
So, I guess to me, there is a little blame to go around for everyone...
I've had a hard time getting excited about this season, but I think it's because I was mourning Laura--I loved her clothes and persona so much that I kept searching for this season's equivalent. Finally realized: isn't gonna happen.
"hellkitty" ??
Oh no! Someone is stealing my nickname. :(
It's Hells Kitten, coming from the ol' NYC Hells Kitchen area. Gotta be a ol' queen like me maybe to know that. lol
Nice post. I've been greatly enjoying the show. I like Christian, Rami and Chris. I also liked Steven but well, bye bye he went.
AMEN!
And what about the models? They're way too young, too skinny and not so faboulous like last season's Nazri, Amanda, Marilinda and Laura's model (forgot the name), they had amazing bodies and looked more womanly.
Emmet in pink spandex? Eliza rubbing fabric into the grass? Robert's failed, alcohol-fuelled acrobatics? Not that I want to take away from the sewing and design (I can watch a British person paint a wall for an hour), but I'm confident there is more to show than just tiffs, snark and the occasional low blow. The producers should show us a little more about the contestants (the prom photos were a good start) rather than trying to maximize the minimal friction of this season.
I also don't get the judging and choice of judges - uninspired. Kors and Garcia seem like they're phoning it in now, and the guest judges have been mostly unknowns to me. The mail carrier, the woman who organizes fashion week and some of the less conventional judges (MINUS Tiki Barber) have been the most interesting for me.
Well put, TLo!! Three things to add - PR Canada was much better produced than PR4. They showed more of the 'behind the scenes' for the designers and the judges. Heidi et al seem like they'd rather be doing something else. And so far, Bravo's choices for PR4 guest judges have been BORING. Maybe Bravo should bring on the winner of PR Canada as a judge!
I didn't read all the comments, but really what they need is more on camera alcohol. Alcohol = funny drama.
Sing it, sisters! Watching last week's show, I found myself pining for the S1 episode where everyone went out and got hammered (except La Pepper, that is). They seemed to be genuinely enjoying themselves until Robert decided to try scaffold trapeze.. And the shots in the reunion where they showed Jay teaching them all drunken yoga? Priceless.
That's what's missing here - the fun aspect to the show. This season is like that mid-career hump - it's past its youthful exuberance, but hasn't gotten old enough to be an old coot. It's so earnest!
What in heaven's name is Sweet P doing in that picture? WTF?
As for phoning it in, did anyone see Heidi on Ellen a couple weeks ago? Ellen asked her something like, "So how's the new season of Project Runway going?" and Heidi said, "Same shit, different day." They bleeped out the "shit" but it was there. That pretty much says it all.
We need more model drama: crazy Morgan, bitchy Olga, wild Melissa...
AND above all...
we need this.
Designers Gone Wild!
We want to see raw, crazy talent unafraid to take chances, have fights and get drunk. Not only is it more entertaining, they tend to produce more interesting garments too.
YES!
Where are the shocking "OMG that is FABULOUS" and "OMG what WAS she/he thinking?" outfits?
" Bettie said...
We need more model drama: crazy Morgan, bitchy Olga, wild Melissa...
AND above all...
we need this.
Designers Gone Wild!"
ROFL. Thanks, Bettie. That post is hilarious!! Now I have to go back and read the entire S1 archive. I miss Jay and "I didn't steal the bitch's dye." A PR classic!!!!
bring back project drunkway!
still my fav season
does anyone remember (i'm sure you do) when they brought back vincent and angela last season? or when they brought back m.g. on pr canada? what if they made that a rule from the beginning of season five? then the designers might take more risks with the knowledge that, let's say, two of the auf'd contestants will be voted back on at some point in the competition. (voted back on by the fans, the judges, the other designers, past seasons' designers--whichever.) that way, the designers might choose to do something outrageous rather than safe because they're not at risk of blowing the competition.
I second that emotion!
I agree that a big part of the complaints are that, the long wait between seasons created an anticipation that could never, really, be satisfied.
But I also think it is the kismet of that chemistry that happens between castmembers (on any show) that is always a crapshoot. I don't know if producers ever give enough credit to how much castmembers matter - they certainly don't pay them like they do. They likely think it is their idea or template that makes the show a must see. But it's not.
It is the castmembers who bring it all to life & a great cast is like lightning in a bottle. You cannot replicate it, and it is a mistake to try.
And with a reality show though, there is no way to gauge the chemistry until you get them all together. It is undefineable, (like the 'it' factor), but you notice when it's not there.
Personally, I like this season better than S3. I thought Jeffrey was just so hateful & loathesome that he ruined it. There is a lot more to drama than arguing. He just made it a hateful bore. I still think S2 is the best season so far: Great designers, great chemistry & great spirit. S1 also had that.
But I also think that when a show is new, it attracts more risks taker-type personalities than it does after it becomes established. And those risk takers naturally make for more compelling TV.
--GothamTomato
Agree, totally.
Absolutely! They need contestants with nothing to lose and everything to gain.
And where are all the great sayings this year? The only good lines have been "let me hand measure you" and "I've made more bad mistakes at 3 AM than I can list". Where sayings are like "Bad Mommy" and "Where's Andrae?" and "There's a whole lot of ugly in that room"????
GucciGirl said...
I miss Jay and "I didn't steal the bitch's dye." A PR classic!!!!
OHMYGOD YES!!!! That's when I fell in love with the show - Jay in his ENORMOUS fake white fur coat saying that he hadn't stolen "the bitch's dye."
How about you guys? When did you guys fall in love with the show? What's your favorite moment?
I would also like to see a little more personality from the designers, and a little more drama from the models. The models are complete non-entities in season 4. (Although Marcia is starting to stand out thanks to Christian and Chris's avant garde dress.)
I agree with anonymous 12:21 and others who say it's not so much the lack of drama, it's the lack of a fashion hero/heroine to root for. Seriously, where is the Bad Mommy of this season?
Its alot like what happened to The Amazing Race. Season one of The Amazing Race was incredible. It was done more documentary style. We saw the teams interacting more, more of what they were actually doing rather than just cutting from challenge to challenge to pitstop. Season one of Project Runway was like that as well. It was a contest, but the show more or less documented the contest, so we got a much better glimpse of the who the designers were. They've reduced it to a formula now: Morning girls apartment/boys apartment, shot of group leaving the building, Heidi introduces the challenge...its all very pat. Season one (and even season two) gave us a better look at how these people worked and came up with their designs.
Maybe after a couple of seasons these shows settle into a production routine thats easy to crank out, but I'd like to see them go back to a looser feel. Season one showed the designers interacting outside of the "show" alot more, and season two played up the personal dynamics of the designers. Santino, Nick, Andre...they made it look like a fun place to be. Now its so structured that its hard to real get a personal feel for any of them. It needs to find its soul again.
Its still a great show, but it has gotten alittle too by the numbers.
"Anonymous said...
Absolutely! They need contestants with nothing to lose and everything to gain."
Yup!! I agree.
I've actually had problems with some of the challenges this year. I thought some initial ideas were great, but they put too many "ands" in there.
Like, the weight loss challenge, why did the outfits have to be "everyday"?
And the outdated looks challenge results were hampered by the team collection stipulations. I would have much preferred 12 new visions of outdated looks instead of watering them down and combining with two other unrelated trends. I mean, who cares?
Ditto on the avant garde challenge. Why bother with the RTW looks that lent little to the original vision?
Meh, I'll stop bitchin' 'cause I actually DO love this show so much. My PR wine is all ready for tonight. Woo hoo!
I think I agree with you on most points. But right now I am so played out with the show, I am going to skip tonight and read through these blogs. I think the show really reached it's nadir last week and I am kind of done for awhile. So T&LO keep up the great work - you are a better substitute.
I can't read the credits fast enough but I've wondered out loud if there was a new editor this year? It feels completely different.
What really really bugs me this season is how most of designers don't give a shit about what Tim has to say, like they know better and they do not need his advice.
I completely agree with the Fan Favorite comment. I have no idea who I would vote for this season, while in past season, I had several choices. Where's Andrae? And the rest of the personalities....
i wish they would send them to a party to mingle with others on the fashion scene or just let them have a drunk night out and film it like in past seasons. since this group is more 'seasoned professionals' maybe they already know how to mingle with the fashion crowd, but either way those episodes in the past ended up being very entertaining while still focusing on the designs (ex: the party where they showed off their 'bathing suits')
We don't watch it JUST for the drama. Without great clothes, or at least attempts at greatness, all the personality in the world wouldn't save them. But I completely agree that the emotional tone of the show has been pretty flat-line all season. Christian's trying, but he's just one tiny pocket gay, he can only do so much! It's just not just drama, though. There was real camaraderie between the designers in previous seasons. You got to sit in on their bonding ('Andre!', the out talk, designers night out) not just their arguments.
All the team challenges could really foster that (friendship AND chaos) But I think if they're going to slap two or more people together, they need to stay away from the twists. There are already multiple aspects to the challenge, they don't need that extra wrench thrown in. Plus- it's only a matter of time before they take it out on Tim, and we can't have that. No no no.
Sing it, bitches! Especially the getting them drunk part. Did you see the pajama party on Project Catwalk? Now that was entertaining!
It is perplexing that Rami and christian appear to ignore Tim's advice. There's stubborness and then there's foolishness.
Like i said there's a difference between being a talneted designer and a good competitor
ah for the raw days of Season 1
Frank
i love your objectivity! amen to EVERY SINGLE THING you said
And to clarify, we really don't need mean bastards like Santino or Jeffrey, I personally enjoy the quirky, fun people, especially if they are good at quips or bizarre facial expressions. Andrae, Jay, Nick, Kayne, Laura, Robert Best, Danny V., even Robert Plotkin were more fun than all the screamers and schemers.
I would be very curious to hear your comparison of PR4 and PR Canada, and how judging and challenges compare. The Canada version was breaking out with risk-takers as cast members, as in PR1, and notably NOT like PR4. I did like that the judges on PR Canada frequently had very differing opinions, but found Iman a bit hard to take. It was my impression that they gave the designers a bit more time to make a polished garment, though I could be wrong. I think something can be said for making the challenge more about being creative and accomplished, than about making a Today Show three-piece suit in a day.
Any thoughts?
Being a model myself, I feel bad for the models; we barely get to see them.
Can you imagine the shakeup (and the fun!) if the first 3 or 4 challenges had been wacky ones?
The "seriousness" of the designers and the first challenges (so commercial!) really slowed the show down. But, maybe it never really gets going until halfway through?
Yes, yes, yes and yes. And I second the motions on:
1. new judges (though I doubt we can get rid of Heidi 'cuz she's the franchise)
2. younger and/or untested designers who are in no danger of destroying an established career (go stand outside Parsons or FIT or, hell, even RISD and catch them as they graduate out)
3. booze, yeah sure.
But, pleeeeease, no more FOS (Friends of Santino)!
I think that Tim's time on screen and what is shown has been severely reduced. He has comments about all of the designs but I fear that they have been edited out because of Jealousy about his popularity.
Tim is not a character. Tim has character. I think that his authenticity is what has attracted all of us to him in the first place and he is being reduced to a "character" on a reality show.
The whole tone of the show is changed without Tim's critiques.
word!
i just watched Season Two, and I'm appalled by how bland the designers in PR4 seem by comparison. I mean - Santino's an ass, but my god! he's also comedy/drama gold.
This crop is just too.damn.professional. some edginess and bitchfoolery and maybe some singing would go a LONG way to perking up PR4. that, or some nice eye-candy, a la Daniel Vosovic (Rami's pissed me off too badly to qualify anymore).
This crew acts like sewing automata (or something). AND - they all keep making the same freaking outfit. Each designer has a STYLE, which is different, in my mind, from a "point-of-view" or personality. You know a VictorYa dress because they are all the same shape, not because of anything distinctive about her designs.
sigh.
The women on this show seemed kinda cluedo. Sweet P's a nice girl, but she seems sort of flaily. Same with Jillian. And emotionally-dead Victorya. And Elisa, my god! Where's the strong tough bitchy girl? Or just strong girl, who doesn't flail or sulk passive-aggressively?
I second the "Amen, Sisters!"
Bring back the artsy,jejeune, wild flaming careening juggernaut that was Seaon One!
"Serious" designers full of their own-sweet-selves are no fun to watch. Ditto "talented" designers creating with the verve and elan of civil engineers.
Oh, for ONE Austen Scarlett. Or dearest Jay. Even Santino . . .
we really don't need mean bastards like Santino or Jeffrey
But would we really want to have missed out on Santino's impression of Tim? I still get the giggles just thinking about it!
Agree with Anon 1:07 -- I'd LOVE to see the designers' sketches. Obviously the seamstress aspect takes longer, but the original thinking is where it starts. And I think it could be a good evolutionary direction for the show.
Also agree with Gotham Tomato about this season being better than S3. Jeffrey was such a negative and unlikeable person that he was difficult to watch, and to me his design was all over the lot, exciting one week and heinous the next. This season has a better talent level than that, IMO.
PRCanada was utterly wonderful, thanks to a hugely talented crop of designers, a non-toxic conflict level and Biddell's personality. That kind of lightning doesn't often strike twice.
Even though I do believe this season is the worst, you guys hit it on the head as to why. I couldn't put my finger on it before, but something about this season was just OFF.
Did anyone notice that there's no real VILLAIN to the show? In a way I'm glad because last season they had like 2 (Keith AND Jeffrey) so it was a little too much, but I miss the old Villains like Santino and even Wendy.
You guys are right though, it is boring to see stuck up professionals just sew away all day, no personality at all!! It's times like this that they need to throw in an old PR alumni to stir up sh*t! Like wouldn't it be great to throw in Kayne or Andrae and have them steal pattern pieces/give the current designers really bad advice???
Fantastic post!
My biggest problem with Season 3 was when I saw Jeffrey's workplace - if PR is for the "next big designer," why is someone with his own clothing factory in the competition? I don't want to see professionals, I want to see people who can sew, but haven't had a chance to shine yet.
That being said, I still love PR, and thought the Avant-Garde episode (except for adding the ready-to-wear challenge too late) was the best of the season. We had arguments between controlling Rami and poor Sweet Pea, cluelessness by Kit and the crier, time stress from VictorYa and Jillian, and then the wonderful comraderie of the Chrises.
I do think Tim is not interacting with them enough, and his criticisms come too late. Christian could not do anything with his prom dress when Tim pointed out how hideous it was - just as Rami was stuck with the avant-garde look last week. Come in with less than 4 hours to go, Tim!
SweetP does look like she is taking a shit in that pic. But at least she has on some sort of sleeve. Why does she have an aversion to sleeves? If I had that crap on my arms, I would cover it up.
Poor Simone. As with Carmen and Kevin, she's not even a footnote here. I liked her.
It's too bad that PR doesn't show reruns of the first few episodes of each season. If it weren't for DVD or blogs you'd never have known who, e.g., Malan was much less why Tim thought his dress looked like a "lawg".
So bring back a designer from the previous season each year. In other words, "Daniel Franco" it. SOMETHING. ANYTHING.
I'm just bored. Yet I still watch, as though it's another book I've read 800 pages of and still have 800 to go. Better to finish the season than stop something I've invested time in.
But I think I'm done after this.
There is definitely something missing for me this season, and I think TLo are correct. The personalities are not there. Now, all this doesn't mean that I want blatant manipulation for drama's sake (Santino's non-aufing for the chicken suit, Emmett's subsequent aufing in that same wretched episode).
robin-m said, "Oh, for ONE Austen Scarlett. Or dearest Jay. Even Santino . . ."
Yes! And not because of their outsize personalities, but because they put their personalities--outsize or not--into the clothes. Each of those designers (Austen, Jay, Santino, as well as many others, like Kara Saun, Daniel Franco, Malan, Uli, Mychael, Laura, Kayne; I'm sure I've left some out, sorry) exhibited points of view in their designs. I wasn't even a fan of all those designers' aesthetics, but at least they put their personalities and points of view into their work, and I don't think I'm seeing that so much this season.
Know what the show needs?
An open bar in the work room.
Get 'em all hammered and watch the fur fly, I say!!
I have pretty much been enjoying this season. I certainly wouldn't say it's the worst or anything. Here is a thought about the designers not having fun or enjoying themselves: They are exausted. Each season it seems more is being expected in terms of execution and output. During the first season no one even made a sleeve, right? The higher the bar gets set, the harder it is on the contestants.
And can I just say snaps to TLo for setting new records in the highest amount of comments in the shortest amount of time ratio???
ok, first, i think what people don't realize is that christian really isn't trying to hurt anyone's feelings when he is being bitchy and conceited. he's exactly the same way in person, but in a joking and playful way. that's just his personality and he's always been that way. he's also AMAZINGLY talented. he really deserves to win this season. as for the lack of "entertainment" from other contestants, go ahead and watch tial tequila or some other crazy shit if it bothers you.
i, for one, loooovee loooovee observing beautiful garments coming down the runway.
Give us back the fashion wannabes with little or no industry experience. Make it exciting!
anon 3:15 said "i, for one, loooovee loooovee observing beautiful garments coming down the runway."
Beautiful garments are nice but we are missing the over-the-top, fashion-forward (or disaster) garments of past seasons.
We need different bingo cards for each episode to liven things up and make the show interactive for the viewers at home.
Mark the free space in the middle when Heidi says, "see you on the runway."
Mark the appropriate space as follows:
When a designer:
* Cries
* Blames another designer for his or her own failings
* Complains about the sewing machine
* Says he or she feels good about this challenge and how it's going
* Says he or she is going home this week
When a model:
* Walks well (subjective)
* Appears on screen (not too often these days)
When Tim:
* Says "make it work"
* Says "it worries me"
When a judge says:
* Point of View
* Boring
* Rushed
* MOB
* Crotch and/or Insane
When Bravo:
* Shows the same commercial for the FIFTH TIME that episode (bonus points if it's NOT that Bluefly commercial with the naked lady in the airport x-ray machine)
* Runs a commercial featuring a former PR contestant
I know the idea of a drinking game has surfaced before, but don't recall bingo cards.
Again, SOMETHING. ANYTHING.
All i can say is... word.
You bitches know what is UP!!!
Actually, I've really started to enjoy this season. It was a slow starter, but I've picked my favorites now, and that's what makes the difference. It just took me a little longer to make that decision than it has in years past.
And I, for one, am glad not to have so much nastiness and, dare I say it, veiled misogyny, as we have had in the past. Personally, I kinda felt sorry for Wendy, I never found Santino the least bit entertaining, Jeffrey bored me to tears, and even Jay's passive-aggressive bitchiness eventually wore on my last available nerve.
I'm probably one of the few people here who would actually like to see a little more time and energy spent on showing technique and design than on personality. But I long ago realized that was not to be. :-\
I have to respectfully disagree. I don't think what the show needs is more "personality," and certainly not more "drama."
I'm one of those that would prefer to see more of the creative process, more of the technical construction, more of the finished product. I'd like to hear more of the designer's points of view, and more of the judges critiques.
The "drama" bores me - who's nasty, who's catty, who's weepy, who's obnoxious ... it's all trivial.
Santino's aggressive egotism irked me - his disrespect to Nina was yucky to watch. Wendy's passive-agressive nonsense was irritating. Laura's 11th hour false accusation of Jeffrey was embarrassing and unfortunate. I could so so without any of that nonsense in favor of more DESIGN.
I actually applaud jillian for playing her emotions close to the chest. She knows she is there is design and to win. She is unwilling to open her personal self up for a public autopsy in the media.
Season 3 kicked ass. Sibelia was the Shiznit.
Compare this season to PRC. PRC was a lot better, and it's hard to put your finger on it.
A lot of people on PRC were established designers. Biddell and MJ were less established, but most had their own boutiques or whatever.
I think a lot of it has to do with the editing choices.
Anyone who liked jeffrey must be a little "touched"
Fashion Manifesto said...
I'm one of those that would prefer to see more of the creative process, more of the technical construction, more of the finished product. I'd like to hear more of the designer's points of view, and more of the judges critiques.
I see where you're coming from but I have to disagree. What you're asking for is a documentary. This is a reality TV show. WHat you're looking for may be more interesting to you, but it won't get viewers to watch in great numbers.
IAWTP!!!
soooo true!
That's the problem. They're all TOO established. Most of them have businesses and reputations and clientele who they will have to face after this is over, so they have to be on their best behavior. They're too image conscious to really let loose. If you want drama and bad behavior, choose amateurs or design students. Maybe they could compete for a scholarship to Parsons instead of cash to start a clothing line.
That all being said, I have to agree with phantomminuet. I wish they showed a little more technique and a better view of the finished garments. All of the bad behavior really did wear thin on me after a while. These are people who are trying to become professionals in their field. We can't expect them to act like the cast of "The Real World" and then show a serious collection with REAL fashion people in Bryant Park.
That's the problem. They're all TOO established. Most of them have businesses and reputations and clientele who they will have to face after this is over, so they have to be on their best behavior. They're too image conscious to really let loose.
fashion manifesto, you need to watch that sewing show on PBS. It seems more your speed and exactly what you are looking for.
"What you're asking for is a documentary. This is a reality TV show."
No, what I'm asking for is a competition based on technique, artistry and talent.
Think American Idol. Rarely do they get into any "drama" back stage, and the kids are exceedingly polite and respectful. They simply showcase the kids talent.
That's what I'm asking for, not a "documentary", just less "Real World" nonesense. And based on many of the comments on here, I DO believe people will watch.
It's all contrived anyways.
Oh, and "Anyone who liked jeffrey must be a little "touched" ... right. Like Nina. And Heidi, and Kors, and the producers who gave him the win and a new car and $100,000 ... they are all touched.
Uh huh.
"Fashion Manifesto said...
"What you're asking for is a documentary. This is a reality TV show."
No, what I'm asking for is a competition based on technique, artistry and talent.
Think American Idol. Rarely do they get into any "drama" back stage, and the kids are exceedingly polite and respectful. They simply showcase the kids talent."
Wrong comparison. American Idol contestants do not need to do anything together or come up with a concept together or be a team leader, THAT's when the drama kicks in.
Hey Anonymous 3:55, Kathy said:
"I wish they showed a little more technique and a better view of the finished garments. All of the bad behavior really did wear thin on me after a while."
Why not insult her too?
Is that what you do, come on here just to insult people. My my, you do have a full life.
"That sewing show on PBS."
LOLOL
Also, they do not have a camera following them around 24/7 and exposing every little thing they say.
I completely agree with the lack of personality. If you look back to season one, they were...insane. Everyone was so different. Rami is kind of an ass, Chris is kind of funny and adorable, Christian is a princes...and the rest of them kind of blend together in gray areas.
One thing I dislike about this season is the fact that they haven't used their models for SO MANY challenges. I think it was like, what, three challenges in a row that they didn't use the models? Doesn't Ms. Klum say it herself, "This is also competition for the models"? They're not doing too much..
fashion manifesto, you need to watch that sewing show on PBS. It seems more your speed and exactly what you are looking for.
Okay, now I understand why you post anonymously.
fashion manifesto said:
No, what I'm asking for is a competition based on technique, artistry and talent.
Me, too. And I would think that people who really love fashion and design would want that, as well.
But maybe not.
As much as I've complained about the challenges (and they *are* taking a different approach this year; there's no two ways about it), this is pretty accurate.
I don't like these people, or the fruits of their labors, enough to be eager to spend one hour a week in their company, let alone the several hours I usually budget to wondering what the PR designers are going to come up with next. When I'm not being bored I'm being turned off.
It doesn't help that a combination of bad challenges, bad judging and bad luck has resulted in designers being eliminated this season pretty much in the order of how much I want to watch them, whether you take that in terms of personality or creativity. I'm not rooting for anybody anymore--who in this group has demonstrated the potential to make a great collection? I don't see it from this bunch, each of whom manages to be either inconsistent or one-note. (Ricky is both.)
Mariana (The Unoriginal) said...
"" eric3000 said...
I think you are mostly right about the designers except that I honestly don't watch the show to see people screaming at each other. "
Nobody said anything about having people screaming at each other. If I read the post correctly, it's more about having the designers act a little more spontaneously. I mean, most of the time, they're whispering to each other."
Sorry, Mariana, I didn't mean to suggest that this post was advocating more fighting. My point was that many reality shows (including past seasons of PR) pump up the fighting between contestants in order to increase the drama. So, while I agree that more drama would be nice, I could do without some of the conflict of past seasons that has made me nauseous.
I think that 'kathy' is totally onto something. Maybe they could spin the show off into two other shows.
One show could be a competition between more seasoned designers showcasing their sketches, techniques, fitting, etc. Don't know what the prize should be, but I could see it attracting people searching for more exposure without the 'reality drama' side to deal with.
The second show could be a competition between amateurs competing for an acceptance or scholarship to a design school (such a good idea you had!)
It seems like each would draw different viewers with substantial overlap. I'd dig them both!
TLo, thanks for expressing your valid points about why this season seems so blah. I have to admit that this is the first season I've watched in "real time" (as opposed to 8 hour marathons), and something is very much missing. I concur that it seems that the raw talent with nothing to lose is sorely missed, but I do appreciate the higher level of skill of the designers this season. It was rare this season that Nina HAD to point out an unfinished garment, with the exception of the menswear challenge. Could we have seen something like Jillian's trench coat in previous seasons? I doubt it.
However,concerning the judges and St. Tim, I believe there is a line being crossed aver from "character" to "caricature". It also doesn't help that we all can spot the "loser edit". I concur with TLo that it is tough to mess with a winning formula, but I think we are all a bit concerned that PR is stuck in a rut and if somehting isn't done to make it fresher, PR will no longer be appointment TV.
Personally, I enjoyed PR Canada this year much more than the cast and results from PR season 4.
Bring Back Morgan. Bring back PROJECT RUNWAY THE MUSICAL, Red Lobster, walkoffs, and stealing a bitch's dye...
I totally agree! With one caveat. It's not JUST that there's no personality. The problem is also that the designers are producing boring clothes. There's been barely any standout outfits (Chris and Christian's last week was one of the first that left me spellbound). If they were actually creating great work that made me think they could really be top, innovative (sorry to use that word but it applies here) designers then I can forgive it but even watching the runway walk or seeing their runway clothes isn't inspiring.
Also, it isn't disappointing because of the long wait. I didn't have to wait at all and I'm still disappointed. I think a big problem is there's no one to really root for or even against. Even more important is there are no real connections or relationships forming or if there are then they're not showing them. Even PR Canada knew that was important, that's how we as the audience start caring for them. Remember Austin and Rob and Jay and Kara? Remember Nick and Daniel and Andrae and Santino? Remember Laura and Michael and Kayne and Robert? That adds to the show and this season doesn't have it.
So yeah, I'm not afraid of admitting I want some personal lives and even some drama. But there's still the additional factors that the challenges have been so-so with bad timing without the use of the models all the team and a lot of team challenges and less challenges that give the designers freedom to be interesting and not stuck in a professional box. Tim hasn't been quite his self and hasn't developed the connections or even fun one liners (and I say this as a HUGE fan of his and don't really think it's entirely his fault). And then this season has been plagued by bullshit judging decisions that doesn't help with audience happiness.
All of these things add up and you get the worst season ever. And it IS, it's hard to deny that. But I do think that next season can be better with better participants, clothes and challenges. Unlike a drama, a reality show can bounce back from a bad season much easier. So there's still hope!
"Mike B. said...
I'm not rooting for anybody anymore--who in this group has demonstrated the potential to make a great collection? I don't see it from this bunch, each of whom manages to be either inconsistent or one-note. (Ricky is both.)"
Amen! This is the first time they I really don't care who wins.
What you guys are describing sounds like Project Catwalk. Drunken fun, fights, cheating -- and this is the first two episodes. Plus they aren't established designers and seem to have no inkling of self-awareness
Unfortunately, the overall effect is very low-rent, so to speak.
Martha's sewing room or Sewing with Nancy. Those shows show the technical part of the process and have absolutely no drama.
I agree, anyone who says they are not watching this show in part for the drama is lying. It wouldn't be entertaining if it just showed sewing.
Perhaps we ought to be careful what we ask for. Last year there was lots of bitching about the negative personalities in S3 (Jeffey, Vincent (ugh), Angela, Keith), so they tried to find some grownups. Now we're bored.
I remember reading all the designers' bios on Bravotv.com and getting a little disappointed with the amount of experience most of them already had. To me it's like having Jessica Simpson or Amy Winehouse competing on American Idol or Gisele Budchen competing on America's Next Top Model.
I agree with your post but wanted to add my thoughts. With the exception of a few; Chris, Sweet Pea and yes, Christian I don't find the designers to be the type of person I'd like to get to know. I also realized that I had completely forgotten about most of the designers who have gone home. Carmen? Marion? Simone? They left no impression whatsoever. Don't say it is because they weren't around long enough. Look at and match that up against Malan who was out after the second challenge last year, and wow now has his own show! It's personality, personality, personality! that makes this show work.
That said,
I'd love to see an "All Star Show" where designers from the past seasons come back to compete in a set of challenges with a really super award to the winner.
I agree with you more than I have ever agreed with anyone else, ever.
FYI-if you post a response that is more than 2 paragraphs, most people will not read it. Too much opinion from one person.
"fashion manifesto said:
No, what I'm asking for is a competition based on technique, artistry and talent.
Me, too. And I would think that people who really love fashion and design would want that, as well.
But maybe not"
Maybe not is right. True those things should be included, but if it were solely on those attributes, the show would be too boring for the masses. A show has to have somewhat of a broad appeal to make it. A show for a limited number of people would not have the audience. Its a fact of life.
Hey, what is it with the anonymous posters yesterday and today, criticizing others' posts?
Don't MAKE me put on my heels and come out there!
Are you feeling the love with me, bitches?
Can I just say that I think some of the criticism of Season 4 is a bit pre-empitve as well. Sure, there were standouts from Day 1 in other seasons (Jay, Austin, Santino, Laura), but there were others who we did not even notice (and they weren't heavily featured) until the second half of the season (Daniel V., Ulli, Kara Janx). Not to mention how much more fun the show is when there are only six designers or less to focus on. We didn't get gems like mustache-gate, "What happened to Andrae?" or "I don't have time to chat with you in German" until later on in previous seasons.
I agree that some of the challenges this season have been a bit humdrum, but we've had those before as well. You can't deny that we are missing some of the drama so far, but I think things will heat up as we move forward. I'm going to hold off judgment on this season until its over.
Agreed!
I agree. I have been watching the show since S1E01 and this is the first season where I have to think "what was that designer's name?". I am just not connecting with the personalities on the show this year.
I am still going to watch the show though. Let's not get crazy.
Guys, forgive me for not reading down through all the comments yet. I hope mine is not (too) repetitive.
I agree with TLo's thoughtful observations 100%. And, I agree with others that it did not help that PRC was on simoultaneously. I miss Tim's air time. And when we do see Tim, he seems bored to death.
Along these same lines, I don't think the judges are boring, I think they are BORED. Although I adore Nina, the Duchess, and Heidi, PRC proved that it's time for a new crew to bring fresh energy.
AND, as I have been saying all along, this season's editing was very, very poor. It has changed notably from the other seasons, and definitely couldn't hold a candle to the superb editing of PRC. Bravo must have made a change this season (a new editor?).
Good editing could have solved a lot of our complaints: we get to know the designers better, more Tim, more designing shots, more runway shots, etc. I lament this season in that we have way less air time of the judges discussing their conclusions (contrast to PRC) and much less time watching the designers back stage as they come back from judging (again compare to PRC). It is in these places that we really get to know the designers. Remember Laura and Vincent's fight last year? We are no longer privy to all the drama that goes on in the moments when human nature will really show itself. Kit's whispering was the first we say of it, and that was only a side video.
Just my .02.
I agree 100%. Challenges are mostly fun, clothes are fine, designers are boring and don't have the kind of fire and personality they the undiscovered ones did.
And the judging! Forgive me (wait, don't)...IT SUCKS!!!!!!!!!! How could you not mention it?!?!
I think it's the edit as much as anything that's causing the "meh, these people are boring" reaction. There's anecdotal evidence within the show that these designers are more interesting than we're being shown. For example, we know that Chris was well-liked before his original auf, and that Sweet P in particular was going to miss him, but we never saw WHY that was true, what events inspired it.
This season, we're seeing less footage being shot in the workroom overall, and that's where some of my most favorite PR moments came from:
- Santino-the-villain turning into Santino-the-Tim-Gunn-storyteller/impersonator, the guy who kept his fellow contestants laughing and going in the wee hours of a challenge.
- Uli dancing with her crazy bolt of fabric
- Kara stopping work on her floral outfit to help bail Chloe out with her leaf-dress
- DanielV talking about coming out with Nick and company
...and on and on. I suspect just from the exit interviews alone that there's a lot more 'personality' happening in the workroom this season than we're being shown. But the show is rushing through the creation process, lingering too long on the inevitable product placement, and frankly getting sloppy in its overall editorial approach. Yes, there's more that could be done with better challenges and a consistent use of GOOD models, but I'm guessing the lack of a good edit is the real culprit behind most of the "blahs".
That all being said, while I desperately miss Laura, I prefer this season over last one. Last one had too much nasty drama and the really disturbing Vincent. This season, while not having a Laura, also does not have a Vincent or Jeffrey. Which is a good thing, IMHO. I can take a little dull while they work out the kinks.
i agree with fashion manifesto, like i said before, if you want to see some drama, watch tila tequila, real world, or other sorts of crazy shit.
Simply put New Judges, they are boring me this season! They are too predictable.
I love Tim but Tim is not working this season. I am not sure why?
I still like the show but I think these two changes would help.
Anonymous said...
i agree with fashion manifesto, like i said before, if you want to see some drama, watch tila tequila, real world, or other sorts of crazy shit.
This would be a very cutting, insightful remark if it weren't for the fact that PR has ALWAYS been as much about the drama as it has been about the clothes.
ohmigod you people!
is christian siriano not dramatic enough (in a good way), and ricky with all of his crying, and jack with his medical treatment, and chris coming back, and hot male models, and sweet p constantly sucking at all of the challenges, and all of the bitchery? gawd, you people are such drama-whores. ALL YOU PEOPLE WANT IS MORE MORE MORE MORE MORE!!!!!!!!
anonymous i 100% totally agree with you
Yes, in a way snoopy-pookie-pies.
I also look at stuff from a perspective of skill and innovation and talent.
And the clothes are stars in their own right.
And that is dependent on how good the designers are.
And now finding designers who excel and have TV-ready personnalities, now, that is tough.
I think that in order to accomodate certain things they need to "open" the concept a little.
Like allow duos a la Proenza Schouler or Dolce & Gabbanna or Libertine to try out.
That would cinch the deal for me because my partner is the construction whiz and I am the design/creative genius.
As I suggested in my blog, I would also LOVE to see an all plus-size version of the show...
Shoot, I suggested a cast for the whole thing...LOL
Love,
Milla
I have not enjoyed this season as much as previous seasons because I haven't cared for the designs that much. I'm also left feeling apathetic about the participants.
i noticed that they really don't include how the models feel about getting eliminated and paired with other designers. in the first season they were all about that, but now i'm rly enjoying the fact that they don't show much of the models because their job is to act as a mannequin for the design, that's it. most of them have no taste in clothing whatsoever
"PR has ALWAYS been as much about the drama as it has been about the clothes."
No way. Absolutely wrong.
PR has often had drama, but it has ALWAYS been first and formost about Design, Fashion and Runway.
Another missing piece of the puzzle is "hunger" Half of these people already have shown in Bryant Park so no one is hungry. I mean isn't that supposed to be the Holy Grail of fashion??
"Shinjira said...
What really really bugs me this season is how most of designers don't give a shit about what Tim has to say,"
I suspect most of what he said got edited out. I cannot imagine he sweeps in, says "I'm worried" and sweeps out...
i think it's interesting how sometimes after certain episodes people say "oh no definitely not, they should not have gotten out, their dress was definitely not the worst." for example: kevin and christian, kevin's dress was horrible, poorly made, he didn't even attempt it, unfinished hemline. at least christian showed some interesting lace designs. also, for ricky and kit, yes, ricky's dress was heinous, but kit's looked like all of hergrandmother's sheets exploded on it!!!!
i think it's interesting how sometimes after certain episodes people say "oh no definitely not, they should not have gotten out, their dress was definitely not the worst." for example: kevin and christian, kevin's dress was horrible, poorly made, he didn't even attempt it, unfinished hemline. at least christian showed some interesting lace designs. also, for ricky and kit, yes, ricky's dress was heinous, but kit's looked like all of hergrandmother's sheets exploded on it!!!!
Sing it, Sisters!!! Nothing to add.
does anyone notice how nina criticizes garments on the runway that she is practically wearing? for example, in the prom dress challenge, she said that she HATED the color of kevin's dress,it was a basic red,i mean, COME ON, and she was wearing a dress with pretty much the SAME COLOR.
No way. Absolutely wrong.
PR has often had drama, but it has ALWAYS been first and formost about Design, Fashion and Runway.
You must have been watching an alternate reality version of the show then because I remember the Wendy/Kara Saun drama, the Vanessa meltdown at the reunion show, the Andrae meltdown on the runway, Santino yelling at Nina, Zulema telling Kara to cry and cut, Santino and Nick not getting along, Nick wanting to go home after his model was taken, Andrae crying on the runway, Jeffrey making Angela's mother cry, Laura and Jeffrey fighting in the workroom, Laura yelling at Vincent after Allison was let go, Jeffrey emoting over his past addictions, etc, ad nauseam.
More importantly, I remember that these were MAJOR SELLING POINTS of the show, endlessly repeated in commercial after commercial.
The boys put it right. It's a reality show about a fashion competition. Because it's a reality show it's as much about the competition as it is about the drama that arises from it.
I think that the real problem with this season is that no one comes across as likeable. Many of the S2 contestants managed to come across as likeable, whether they be villains (Santino), professional (Chloe), neophyte (Daniel V) or kooky (Daniel F). The same can be said about S1 and S3. There were many different personalities that were likeable and kept our attention.
I just don't care about any of these designers this season. They're not interesting and I don't care if they get auf'ed.
Juliann K said: "I'd love to see an "All Star Show" where designers from the past seasons come back to compete in a set of challenges with a really super award to the winner."
I have actually given some thought to that concept (yeah, slooow day at work) I think they should have a team challenge with the top 4 from each season competing to design a fab gown/outfit/garment for a super stylish person, say Helen Mirren or Catherine Deneuve. The winning team gets their garment worn at a high level red carpet event and a cash reward to the team's fav charity. Just my 2 cents.
a reality television show nominally based on a fashion design competition.
Yes! I've tried to point this out a few times, however, there are those who disagree. I have a feeling that even the designers believe that it's design competition, and so... well, you get what you have.
What adds to our ennui is that we've been simply inundated by PR marathons and repeats. Such repetition subtracts from the impression of freshness. So there's a big programing problem on the Bravo TV side as well.
I do love PR because it's one of the few shows where the people do have some skills. It's not like the totally voyeuristic and banal Housewives, Cribs, or Matchmaker shows. So it'd be nice to see a whole lot more heart poured into it.
I think you are completely right. My only thing is what is going on with the picture of Sweet P? I just need someone to explain.
nothing will ever replace season 1 for me, ever. But I still love PR. Maybe they could put in a little more Tim. And PR is about drama - the drama of fashion and the personalities that inhabit that world. What I don't like is how Bravo keeps trying to manufacture drama with the team challenges. If they cast more raw talent per t& lo's suggestion the drama would come on its own.
LOL with the pic of sweet p, i think that they told her to do that, because jillian's is pretty similar. how on earth they can post those photos? don't ask me.
Is it just me or is Chris March getting bigger in each episode?
I don't think there's enough Leopard Print fabric in the State of New York to make him a shirt.
omg i knowww! if you go to his website and look at his bio pic, he is sooooo thin! it's truly amazing.
"Tweaking an already successful format could lead to disastrous results."
Trading Spaces anyone? Looks like they are bringing back Paige Davis after dropping off the ratings radar.
"If we had to offer the producers one bit of advice, it's this: we, the fans of PR, don't want to see mature, established professionals concerned with their self-image. We want to see raw, crazy talent unafraid to take chances, have fights and get drunk. Not only is it more entertaining, they tend to produce more interesting garments too."
If this were written as an online petition? I just signed it.
P.S. I've got my jammies on and ready for the show this evening. Puh-lease don't let these business people bore me tonight. I want to see some blood when Jillian gets shot! I want someone to bitch-slap Rami or Sweet P or even Ricky. Oh hell, bitch slap some life/hunger/passion into this set of reality TV star dilettantes stat! :le sigh...
I really hated Jeffrey last season, and thought the way that he treated Angela's mother was so completely unprofessional that if he treated a client that way, he would lose lots and lots of clients. There is an old saying that if you make a woman happy she will tell 30 people, and if you make her unhappy, she will tell 300 people, and to give Jeffrey the win after his dreadful attitude totally turned me off.
This year, I love that the designers are generally respectful of each other and their clients. What bothers me, however, is that when a designer does put out a point of view, such as Chris with his "costume" point of view, they get creamed for it. And I don't get it - I didn't see "costume" in Chris' big shoulders jacket. I thought it was unattractive (but the gown under it was classic and beautiful) but since he designed costumes, the judges tagged all that he did as "costume-y."
It is almost as if the judges are not too smart, and once they hear an expression, they then use it to death: Mother of the bride.
I mentioned this blog topic to my wise-acre hubby (who watches the show with me)...he suggests a total breakaway for Season 5.
Project Runway Hip-Hop style.
He votes for Grace Jones to host, but I pointed out that she's not really hip-hoppy....so my vote is for the Queen, Latifah.
Can you imagine the challenges? Design an event gown for Lil' Kim...or take Flavah-Flav's clock and update the look for 2008.
...who would Tim's hip-hop alter-ego be?
Anyway....any variation on the theme. If you're a sport's fan, it could be PR all-sports clothes...etc. :) tee hee
Boy, am I ever late to this party! TLo, there is one dress you haven't spoken of yet. What in bloody hell was going on with Heidi's dress. I didn't even listen to her because I couldn't stop staring at her armpits.
-Vindaloo
I think someone said it best. The editing has depsonalized the experience overall. There is not the connection there normally is for the audience to really get to know most of the designers or their personal interactions. Sweet P lamenting Chris' aufing but never seeing their interaction. Victorya comes across very cold but both she and Elisa say they developed this close bond. Yet the only indication of it is Victorya hugging Elisa goodbye. Maybe she would be more likable if they had.The only thing I know about Jillian is that she sews well.
Frank
Word.
Interesting stuff:
It's come out from Jeffrey himself that he intentionally crafted a character prior to coming to NYC. In a recent interview he said his lines were culled from the movie Kingpin, and he purchased clothing just for the competition and also decided on a character who everyone would find hateable.
Watch the interview here
It was as planned as the editing process.
Anonymous @ 12:21 said: Dear God, that picture of Sweet P in a babydoll dress with knee socks, clutching her crotch and sticking her butt out is seriously going to give me nightmares. Was she trying to be sexy? Or did she just have an itch?
Couldn't agree more. i was so confused by the pic at first, thinking, 'why is she the only one photographed crouching in water?'
Anyway, yes, agree with TLo wholeheartedly. i miss raw talent.
I agree about the dullness of this season. I'm not necessarily looking for mojito-induced pillow fights (unless I could choose the combatants), or any cat fights (unless they were like the Alexis/Crystal ones on Dallas). What I would like to see is something UNEXPECTED. That's it. Pretty simple. Oh I dunno...Ricky's hat blows off in a breeze and he has to chase it down 7th Ave wherein we all get a good peek at his monk's pate. Something drag (like on PCW) but all the designers swap gender. Jillian and VictorYA scarfing down pot brownies would be fun. Maybe the girls could do some face painting after. No contact high drama needed. Just something unexpected.
Kors lost my respect a while back. You don't make a comment about a woman who has made a life/health altering decision to lose that much weight and regain some self image esteem that you're getting a French whore vibe from how she looks. What an ass.
(Oh and all I could think about with Rami's last "something different" was a badly made asymmetrical Vietnamese Ao Dai -- which I see on a daily basis. Anyone else get that?)
Here's a reference: http://www.modernaodai.com/aodai2004.html
"Tweaking an already successful format could lead to disastrous results."
Truth, Ruth...I present Exhibit A: Amazing Race 8: The Family Edition.
I won't be a spoiler, but tonight one of the contestants puts in the least amount of effort ever and shows probably THE most FUGLY garment ever seen on PR... and goes home for it.
Ignore everything thy just wrote. Ricky just won a challenge. This is the worst season ever.
I don't think it's the worst. I still am glued to my set each week. I would like to see more drama and less experienced designers getting a shot at the big time.
I would also like to say that your blog makes the show for me and I just can't live without it!
"Anonymous said...
Ignore everything thy just wrote. Ricky just won a challenge. This is the worst season ever."
I totally agree.
Well to most of that i have to say WORD!!!
I do disagree with a bit of it tho.
You say we secretely do want drama. Well, yes and no in my case at least.
Jay, Austin, Santino, Nick, Kayne, Laura, Robio...absolutely. i could watch them all day.
Jeffery, vanessa, Nora, keith, Angela, Zulema, Carmen...FORGET IT!!!
Fun fashion and personality, wit-based drama is great fun.
Cheating, Lying, accusations, and overall rude, crude behavior is disgusting and ruins the show for me.
I confess, I hated last season, The keith crap, and jeffery hate just killed the season for me, Plus the family challenge when the designers made after Auf'ed comments about peoples mothers, sisters,weights and such was despicible
Forgot to add.
I like this season for the challenges.
I think they have all been good, even menswear.
I just wish they had like 1 more day to work.
I'd rather be wowed by great clothes, than what quickie things the designers know they can finish on time.
i think it keeps the creativity muted when they know they only have hours to work on the idea.
I have to disagree. I hated Vincent, Angela, and Jeffrey all so much that I wasn't sure I could keep watching if we had more of that this season. Not "fun to hate" hate, but "my god, if I had to work with this person I'd consider it a hostile workplace" kind of hate. It was too much.
I don't have anything against flamboyant people---I really liked Santino, actually---but I think there's a difference between a troublemaker who keeps things interesting, and a garden-variety asshole. S3 was packed full of the latter and I'm *so* glad that this season, I'm not so distracted by the general unpleasantness that I can't enjoy the show.
I think another problem PR faces is... this blog. No. Really. Non-Bravo content blogs and forums have whipped up a great loyal audience but the downside is that future contestants aren't living in a vacuum.
I'm sure they're reading blogs and sites to get background info on how the show works, how the judges decide and how traits are treated.
We, fans, are now calculated so why we expect contestants not to be is naive.
Maybe we just gotta reap what we sew?
Having typed that, I gotta say I would love to get new judges. Project Catwalk just has Zandra Rhodes (Britain's own Betsy Johnson-like crazy dame designer) and it was kinda interesting to what her. She sports pink hair and terribly non-age-appropriate (in a *good* way) clothes - but she's been around for 30 years and knows the business and actually sounds like she knows what she's talking about when chatting with the designers.
And could you imagine if a young Issey Miyake came on the show? He'd be fantastic and last about two episodes before being booted off for being 'unwearable' (and probably a boring personality).
I'd take an Issey over another Vincent any day.
"kanani said: It's come out from Jeffrey himself that he intentionally crafted a character prior to coming to NYC."
Well, what else can he say after he became so despised for his behavior? Was he also playing a character when he said he didn't cheat? Did he also make up his life story? Were the other designers in on this alledged character/improv? (They went there with the intention of competing for the prize - not to play bit parts in his little mysogynist fantasy play.) Was he lying then or is he lying now?
Very tricky thing that 'character' claim. It opens a whole new can of worms without actually erasing the public's initial impressions. All it does is make him look like more of a jerk & a user, and even less believeable.
--GothamTomato
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