We keep reading these wildly negative comments about Sweet P - some going so far as to say she's a bitch - and we honestly don't get why. She seems to be getting along with her fellow designers fairly well so we're not sure what so many others are talking about when they talk about how nasty she supposedly is.
Anyway.
Of course we're resigned to the no-belt thing. We can only spend so much time railing against it.
Yeah, it was poorly executed but the overall look had a "throw me on the desk and take me" vibe to it and darlings, we are ALL about that. Of course, that could have something to do with the fact that her model was scorching and we're only now just noticing him. The clothes were so crazy that we didn't even see the hotness occupying them.
To rectify that, here are some reminders for your Friday afternoon viewing:
[Photo: Bravotv.com - Screencaps: Project RunGay]
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176 comments:
I love Sweet P! I wasn't planning on it, but she has proven herself to be very likeable.
I have to admit that Sweet P brings out the hostile in me. I think it's the tatoos. Seriously, I'm not joking. For some reason they just make me feel hostile towards her.
I know she plays well with others, I know she seems nice, and is talented as far as I can tell. The tatoos just piss me off. What's that about??
As to people thinking she's a bitch, well that may just be because she has committed the unforgivable sin of being 46 and not looking fabulous. That doesn't bug me, as I am similarly old and plain.
I hate her name and the tattos. At first when I saw her, I was like its going to be Shear Genius-- a lot of weirdos. Which I didn't want for Project Runway. But I'm just a judgemental bitch, which is probably why I like this blog. I changed my mind though. She is sweet. I'm sure she has a bitchy side too, but I haven't seen it yet. I like her.
I like Kit a lot too, which I wasn't expecting.
I like Sweet P, but that shirt is ass. Every thing about it is wrong. You dont to a bend back placket on a mens dress shirt. And the collar has to have a collarstand if you are going to wear a tie.
That being said, I don't know why they didn't give the designers some basic mens slopers (shirt, trouser, jacket) to base their designs off of. All of them used the basic tried and true shapes found in all menswear, there is no need to try and re-invent the wheel. If they had those basic tools that everybody in the industry uses the final product could have been more intresting and prettier to look at.
I don't get the Sweet Pea is a bitch thing at all. She seems pretty decent - imagine Jeffrey working with Elisa and put things in perspective...
Anyone who will admit that their design looked like it was constructed by a Kindergarten kid I'm ok with.
AES
I like Sweet P so far, she seems to be very nice, although rough looking. However, that shirt collar was hideous. How can you not make a collar? She made it so big that you could step into the shirt. Who has a neck that big? What was she thinking? Obviously, she wasn't thinking and maybe this brush with death will keep her on her toes in the future.
I breathed a sigh of relief when Carmen was auf'd instead of her. I didn't expect to like her, but I do. If it weren't for Chris, Christian, Kit, Elisa and Sweet P, I don't know If I'd be watching PR4 every week. I just don't find this season as compelling as the first three or PR Canada - which I am loving!
I like Sweet P. I don't get a bitch vibe from her at all.
The collar was not just a hot mess, it was a steaming hot mess, and while I'd miss her, I wouldn't have cried foul if she'd been auf'ed for it.
I'm only a moderately skilled sewer, but I've made collared/yoked shirts before, and they're not THAT tricky. She should have been able to figure it out, especially with a fitting dummy.
I've loved Sweet P from the start. She reminds me of some alterna-gals I know that refuse to age gracefully( I mean that as a compliment!). Just one question: does she have silvery makeup on the mole above her lip or is that just the way it shows up on camera?
insane crotch inspector--
you know, as someone with an assortment of facial moles myself, i've been asking myself that same question.
i'm starting to wonder if it's not a mole, but maybe an unusually placed piercing.
Just goes to show you you cant judge a book by its tattooed cover.
she seems sweet and just plan old Awesome. I like her!
Um, hello? The collar is most definetly not the only thing wrong with the shirt.
Those sleeves are way too short. It looked like she tried to make a shirt that both Bruce Banner and the Hulk could wear.
I don't think Sweet P is a bitch but I'm definitely not a fan. I don't care for her because of the way she acted toward Elisa (getting her panties in a twist over a spit mark and calling her methods ridiculous in front of Tim), especially after Elisa tried to make her feel better about being picked last for the team challenge.
The fact that she seems to look down on Elisa because she's different from the norm (pot/kettle) is unjustified considering she hasn't shown the chops the hippy has in individual challenges. Chick couldn't make a simple shirt with a sewing machine and she's bagging on Elisa because she doesn't use one? Uh, check yourself sweetie.
Holy Cow!
I think that forcing that poor, undernourish boy to walk down the runway, on national TV, in that get-up, is a direct violation of the Geneva Convention.
I think the producers are very lucky if no one from Amnesty International was watching.
--Gotham Tomato
P.S. I do get the bitch vibe from Sweet P. I get it from the facial asides; from the way she tried to throw Elisa under the bus; and the hideous tatoos don't help.
wow.
theres judgmental in the fun way, like, "look at what she's wearing" and then there's the other kind of judgmental which isn't so fun. like, "she has tattoos so I don't like her."
some of you should be appalled. in fact, i can't believe some of you are coming right out and saying you don't like her because she has tatoos. pardon my language but thats fucked up.
-moira-
I was mildly prejudiced against Sweet P because of her name (dislike aliases generally), but as soon as the season actually started I really liked her. She seems quite down to earth, humble, likable.
I can't imagine disliking someone for their tattoos, unless of course they've got "Fuck You" written across their forehead or something.
And I do not think she tried to throw Elisa under the bus-- any sane person would have a hard time being partnered with Elisa, and Sweet P made the best of it. And to her credit, Elisa took the criticism admirably.
Damn, she should have had you guys on the runway with her to whisper in her ear: "Tell the judges you were going for a Picasso look."
I also don't understand comments calling her a bitch. I haven't seen any of that from her--at least not yet. She does indeed seem sweet.
Chalk me up on the side of not liking Sweet P. It starts with the alias. The look doesn't help. And I just get a desperation vibe off of her.
brilliant - you said exactly what I was thinking re: her interactions with Elisa.
And she seemed far too panicked during this challenge. I've noticed her a few times looking around the workroom like she expects someone to help her or come to her rescue. I don't think she has the goods to last.
I wasn't expecting to like Sweet P, but she is growing on me. Definitely old school tattoos though... she needs to get some work done. Fill in some of those holes!
Sweet P seems cool to me. She reminds me of my cousin, looks like a hard-ass, but is really nice. Also a biker chick of similar age. With that out of the way...that collar was ass. Not only were the sleeves too short, but, that was a women's blouse sleeve, not a men's dress shirt sleeve she drafted. My fellow sew babes, check out that sleeve cap, seriously too high for a man's dress shirt. This and the nasty collar contributed to the serious ugly that was the shirt.
At least when Sweet P sent crap down the runway she knew it was crap, unlike some deluded Season 3 designers.
I have to admit, I kinda like her.
"The only thing really wrong with the outfit is the collar."
Hello, did you see the sleeves on that shirt? I think Sweet P should have been in the final two instead of Ricky.
While I was watching this episode, I was yelling a the screen (yeah, I know, studies have shown the people on tv can't hear you, LOL), 'Don't use that sleeve Sweet P!', but the collar was so bad, no one seemed to notice the bad sleeve...:(
brilliant said...
Um, hello?
Can you hear me now?
Damn, Sweet P's model is hot! He is giving a Christian Bale "American Psycho" vibe, isn't he now?
In the interest of being tattoo-politically correct, I will comment that I LIKE tatoos, but I do not like Sweet P's tattoos. However, this does not make me dislike her, in fact I find her completely sweet. (But capable of turning on someone on a dime).
The best piece of sattire the entire evening was when Sweet P yelled, "Man down! Man down!" whe the manequin fell over. Sweet P came up smiling and that's pretty good in that pressure cooker.
SWEET P ROCKS! I LOVE HER!!!!
"Insane Crotch Inspector said...
Just one question: does she have silvery makeup on the mole above her lip or is that just the way it shows up on camera?
3:02 PM
K. said...
i'm starting to wonder if it's not a mole, but maybe an unusually placed piercing.
3:05 PM"
It's a type of cheek piercing called a Monroe (after Marilyn, obviously). I think it looks like a giant silver pimple, but giant silver mole works as well.
This outfit was ass. She managed to make a young, hot, male model look like a middle aged- middle management working just getting off the job. And she made him look like he had a gut. At least she made a shirt, though...
I thought the look was very hot. Very Dsquared hot.
"If Picasso designed menswear, it would look something like this."
Yes, though a post-1940 Picasso.
But I can't get past the model's expression, poor guy. When he got this casting call, he was probably all excited, (probably called his family back home to tell them all he'd made it), thinking it might be his big break.
Then they assigned him to SweetP, dressed him in that Lil' Abner Does Gordon Gecko shirt, did his hair like Jerry Lewis, and he's standing there thinking 'I'm not even getting paid for this. How many people watch this thing anyway?'
Look at his face when he's standing next to SweetP on the runway. He looks like he's making a hostage tape.
--Gotham Tomato
"Dig that American Psycho styling."
Dead-on!!!
I loved that she was honest and said that she had the worst outfit, that she was embarrassed in front of her peers....how does that make her a bad person? In my opinion, thinking that your clothes are always fierce and everybody else sucks is way worse than that, right Princess?
I don't hate her but she isn't my favorite. So far she is my least favorite. Time or editing will tell who is the bitch. ( Sometimes it is me. )
What did Gotham Tomato call Sweet P yesterday? Oh right ... "Nasty Freak."
Nice.
"Look at his face when he's standing next to SweetP on the runway. He looks like he's making a hostage tape."
He looks like a professional model. Expressionless.
Say whatever you want, she's dead to me after she tried to throw Elisa under the bus with Tim and the judges.
And you'd think she'd be a little more open to people with alternative lifestyles... I just did NOT get that.
Anne
I don't hate sweet p.
Yes that shirt was fuggly and messed up for wearing outside. But in a corner office in the dark, with that tie wrapped around his wrists it's pretty hot ;P
You guys nailed it...very American Psycho, and gawd that movie gets me drooling.
That collar was aweful but after looking at it a lot it looks like it could almost appear deliberate. If the challenge was to create something edgy I could see it being a unique perpective instead of a fuck up on classic boring today show wear.
Ok, the model is cute, but doesnt he look sooooooooo bored? Like he would much rather be somewhere else. I guess maybe he would with that collar and tie.
I like Sweet P too. She makes me wanna get a tattoo. And I think her honestly about working with Elisa was cool. She was surprised it came together well and wasnt afraid to admit she might have jumped the gun in thinking they were screwed. She knew she was screwed on Wed, and just managed to skate by, thank god.
I'm so glad it was Carmen, anyone who sings, dont go home too soon to another competitor sort of was asking for it.
Bikers and hippies are kind of the opposite ends of the alternate lifestyle spectrum. Trust me, here in Santa Cruz we have lots of both, and they don't "get" each other. I think Sweet P was afraid that Elisa wouldn't let her use a sewing machine to finish the piece, and Tim was helping her make that happen. To her credit, Elisa took it well.
As for this challenge, she was in over her head and she had the grace to admit it to the judges. I believe that is what saved her.
I'm not seeing bitch. And her tats are cool, especially her back tats.
TLO said Explain something to us, poodles.
We keep reading these wildly negative comments about Sweet P - some going so far as to say she's a bitch - and we honestly don't get why. She seems to be getting along with her fellow designers fairly well so we're not sure what so many others are talking about when they talk about how nasty she supposedly is.
Maybe it is along the same lines as calling Marion a pervert after the very first episode in which he only said about two lines.
That character assessment was based on what? His "paleness" and clothing choices?
(all said with love)
Sweet P. is Adorable! Any attempt to paint her otherwise is just laughable. Muck-raking B.S. It's ugly.
And she didn't throw anyone under any bus. Why would you say that? Their look was PRAISED by the judges. They LIKED it, remember? And the two girls got along. If anything, Sweet P. made light of Elisa's totaly weirdness on the runway and made the judges laugh, diffusing the total shock they expressed over the "Spit Mark."
Moira is right "some of you should be appalled."
"And you'd think she'd be a little more open to people with alternative lifestyles"
Alternative lifestyles? Sweet P looks different. Elisa is a psychological freakshow. The two cannot remotely be compared. That's like saying a homosexual or a person with a mohawk should understand a schizophrenic since they're both abnormal. Atypical people do not all speak the same language, okay?
PR Canada is way better than the American version. This week's swimsuit for a plus size model challenge may be the best PR epi ever! Perhaps the boys will blog it in the off-season?
I know there are a lot of people on Sweet P about her "throwing Elisa under the bus", but when watching that episode, I thought they edited out some of her comments. (I know, they probably do that to everyone). It just seemed like she might have had more to say. And even if that was ALL she said, what was so bad? That Elisa has very odd methods? Elisa's a little whack-a-doodle...a interesting/confident whack-a-doodle, but crazy nonetheless.
Sweet P's outfit? Meh. Who cares anymore. Move on to another WAY more interesting challenge! Can't wait for next week!
"Yeah, it was poorly executed but the overall look had a "throw me on the desk and take me" vibe to it and darlings, we are ALL about that."
Yes. Yes it did. I would have loved to have seen it done well.
Sweet P reminds me of a lot of my friends moms. Lots of tattoos, a little worse for the wear, but overall very sweet unless you're an ass to them.
TLO said The only thing really wrong with the outfit is the collar.
Did you see the sleeves?
Homo Ono said...
Maybe it is along the same lines as calling Marion a pervert after the very first episode in which he only said about two lines.
That character assessment was based on what? His "paleness" and clothing choices?"
Honey.
If you can't tell that this:
We WANT to be polite and not make horrible character assumptions about people we don't know, so we feel JUST AWFUL about mentioning our observation that Marion comes off like some sort of pervert on camera, what with the paleness and the sweating and the darting eyes.
was a joke and not an actual character assessment, we don't know what to tell you. We're sure that some people were joking in their assessments of Sweet P but look at some of the very responses in this thread. There is a sizable number of people who don't really like her.
Who's talking smack about Sweet P? I really like her. I was all upset watching this episode thinking she was going to be the one to go home!
Thank goodness Carmen went home. She was my least fave.
And yes, we see the sleeves now. We though he just had them rolled up.
Sweet P hate? Wha? She's been pretty low-key and funny so far...seems to be one of the more "normal" ones in the bunch (her appearance not being equivalent to her personality) and not too drama-inclined. She's not my favorite or anything, but I like her so far and really like how willing she was to admit that she sent a mess down the runway.
I don't think there was anything wrong with the way she talked to Tim about Elisa. For once, at least someone on the show was talking about them IN FRONT OF THEIR FACE! And she wasn't even that mean!
i dont get the sweet p bashing? she seems exactly that "sweet"
"anonymous said: Alternative lifestyles? Sweet P looks different. Elisa is a psychological freakshow. The two cannot remotely be compared. That's like saying a homosexual or a person with a mohawk should understand a schizophrenic since they're both abnormal. Atypical people do not all speak the same language, okay?"
Um, who, exactly, is abnormal?
With all these anon posters here, it looks to me like SweetP has taken a page out of her friend Jeffrey's book, and sent some flying monkeys to the blogs to defend her. He waited til near the end to do it, so I'm wondering if she's near her end, or if she's just starting early.
--Gotham Tomato
Swee' Pea is fine by me. And so is her model!
The outfit, not so much.
Gotham, I'm not a flying monkey, and I'm definitely not a Jeffrey-defender, but I stuck up for Sweet P. Really, everything is not a conspiracy!
Tami S. said...
Not only were the sleeves too short, but, that was a women's blouse sleeve, not a men's dress shirt sleeve she drafted. My fellow sew babes, check out that sleeve cap, seriously too high for a man's dress shirt. This and the nasty collar contributed to the serious ugly that was the shirt.
Yeah, I noticed that about the sleeve cap (and lenght). A lot of them fucked up the sleeve cap, which is weird to me because the men's sleeve cap and setting the sleeve is a lot easier than a woman's.
LOLOL at the "Flying Monkeys" conspiracy.
"Her Friend Jeffrey" .... Friends?? Oh Right. Because everyone who has Tatoos are friends.
Honey, you don't HAVE to hate somebody. Really. Think about it.
Listen to TLo. You're invective is unseemly.
Rather than diss Sweet P, you should go after the male designers drooling over the models. Could we BE more unprofessional?
Ricky's "take off all your clothes" (or whatever he clearly enjoyed saying) and Rami's interview giggle were both worse than any Sweet P comments.
You didn't see Zulema getting all hot and bothered by the half-naked women. Be professional, boyz.
As far a Sweet P throwing Elisa under the bus. I felt that Sweet P's comments on the runway were heavily edited. I *think* she was saying she expected it to be difficult to work with Elisa, because of her unusual methods, but went on to say (and this is what I think got edited) that it turned out to be a good experience.
"macasism said...
Gotham, I'm not a flying monkey, and I'm definitely not a Jeffrey-defender, but I stuck up for Sweet P. Really, everything is not a conspiracy!"
That's just what the pilots flying the black helicopters want you to think.
Actually, I was just refering to the anonymouses. Though, maybe they all just had parents in the witness relocation program, who all happened to name them Anonymous (but wait, would be another conspiracy, or just a coincidence?)
That was what happened before the final of S3, and I heard that Sweet P & Peanut were friends, so I had a hypothesis. Just sayin'.
--Gotham Tomato
I like Sweet P. She was a nice surprise. I honestly thought that with all the tats that she would be looking to kick ass and take names- or be the female version of Jeffrey, but she really seems to be very nice and gets along well with the other designers. I also like that she's 46 and holding her own with the young'uns.
I think it can safely be said that readers here need a greater awareness of the breadth of personalities a tattooed person can have.
I'm not a sewer, so I just don't really understand why some of the contestants had such a hard time with this challenge.
I would think that women would be more difficult because of the additional, er, body topography.
I like the fact that Sweet P has a healthy self-deprecating sense of humor. I'm not crazy about some of the over-the-top reactions, and attendant facial expressions she has.
She also seems like she could have a total meltdown at any time...
anonymous (shocking, I know) said...
Alternative lifestyles? Sweet P looks different. Elisa is a psychological freakshow. The two cannot remotely be compared. That's like saying a homosexual or a person with a mohawk should understand a schizophrenic since they're both abnormal. Atypical people do not all speak the same language, okay?
Psychological freakshow!! Why?Because she does yoga? Uses onomatopoeias and multi-syllabic words to describe her garments? Is shy around guys? Employs pre-20th century methods for constructing garments?
Which of these things suggests schizophrenia to you? I don't see any of that in the DSM-IV.
I think some of you people have really fallen for Bravo's "crazy edit" and have been confused into thinking that Elisa is just Vincent with a vagina. Calm the eff down, please. (Maybe try some yoga.)
Sweet P is this weird juxtaposition of frumpy clothes along with tats and biker hairdo. Last week's episode with Sweet P in what looked like a conservative, somewhat dowdy black chiffon capelet and dress with those tattoed arms was mindblowing for me. And this week's blue satin was kind of the same thing. She dresses very MOB, except that mom happens to be an aging biker chick. That's a really hard look to pull off.
Although I think Sweet P does have her sweet side, just like her one tat, she does seem to have her Mean P side too just like her other tat (she's the one who compared them as Sweet P and Mean P). I didn't think she threw Elisa under the bus with Tim, but she did with the judges when it wasn't necessary. She and Elisa were up there contending for the win, and she started to rag on her partner. That's what I found odd, particularly after Elisa was so gracious about Sweet P being picked last. I don't hate Sweet P, but complaining about Elisa when she didn't need to wasn't Sweet P's finest moment either.
First, the collar is the ONLY thing wrong with that shirt? Um, did you see the cuffs? They are way too short, and not in a thinking-outside-the-box kind of way.
And even if the collar was the only problem, it's still not comparable to Jack's. Jack at least used a bias cut witht he striped on the front panel and the pocket which, while not genius or anything, is exactly the stylish attention to minor details that makes menswear stand out. I like his shirt much better, collar or no collar.
Oh, sorry, apparently you did notice the sleeves. So many comments to read!
And brilliant, I don't think anon's comment actually said Elisa was schizophrenic. He/she was using a hypothetical comparison to make a point.
That's just what the pilots flying the black helicopters want you to think.
Bwahaha! Gotham, you're as funny as T-Lo!
I do remember the Jeffrey flying monkeys, but I was just saying, I don't think this is that. Although I agree that Sweet P is not long for this world.
I actually like the pants. Sure, a little hip-y, but I would wear them.
Things I hate: everything else.
1. The tie is about 10 inches too long.
2. The sleeves are about 3 inches too short.
3. My dad wore that tie back in '84, and it was dated then.
4. The shirt tucks oddly. Not very flatteringly cut.
The fact that the collar looks like a loose vagina goes without saying.
"brilliant," I did not call Elisa a schizophrenic. I used an analogy. Go back and read what I said again.
I call Elisa a psychological freakshow because she thinks deliberately putting grass stains on fine fabric is a good idea, doesn't understand that admitting to spitting on fabric to the judges is probably not the best choice, apparently has no real sense of time management, and so on. Clearly her deck is missing a few cards, and therefore working in a team with her is going to be a trial....whether one has tattoos or not.
"Last week's episode with Sweet P in what looked like a conservative, somewhat dowdy black chiffon capelet and dress with those tattoed arms was mindblowing for me. And this week's blue satin was kind of the same thing. She dresses very MOB, except that mom happens to be an aging biker chick. That's a really hard look to pull off. "
Just because you have tattoos doesn't mean you can't wear feminine clothes. I have a half sleeve tattoo on my arm and I love to look feminine.
Personally, I love Sweet P. She reminds me a lot of me. Just because you have a hard looking exterior doesn't mean that's all you are. Geez, don't judge a book by its cover.
As for the Elisa thing...if that was Sweet P throwing someone under the bus then the sky is green. She voiced concerns, but only after Tim said it.
"Geez, don't judge a book by its cover."
Interesting notion to apply to a show about fashion.
I have an appointment to get a tattoo that will extend down my side from my armpit to my hip...
AND I am an Astrophysicist.
Don't judge a book my its cover folks. Tat's are just a representation of the art you like. It doesn't mean your a bad person who deserves hostility. It also doesn't mean you are a tough bitch who can only wear leather and studs.
I really like the Juxtaposition of Sweet p's tats and her feminine style.
I admit that I make certain assumptions about heavily tattooed people:
A) They're slavish followers who believe themselves to be rebellious individualists-- an especially irritating combination.
B) They're blind to the fact that all is fashion, and permanent aesthetic choices are unwise.
Am I a bigot?
"anonymous," I read what you said and it's clear that your analogy is just as overwrought and undercooked as your specific terminology, "psychological freakshow," for Elisa.
As I said earlier (go back and read it), nothing she has done and nothing you point out in your little diatribe is evidence of psychological disorder.
Yes, her actions are weird. But nothing indicates that she's mentally ill, certainly not anymore than a 46 year old woman calling herself "Sweet P" and covering her body in tattoos is indicative of mental illness.
So she admitted to using a spit mark after Sweet P told the judges what she did. Was she supposed to lie?
Time management problems make one a "psychological freakshow?" Well then, we would have to include your precious Sweet P and half the other designers in that category after this last episode.
All your rant is indicative of is your ignorance of old time techniques. How do you think fabrics got dyed in the past? By "imbuing" them with natural elements. That's all she was doing. Hell, she didn't even use that fabic in her garment.
And as someone else pointed out on an earlier blog, some grandmas used saliva to mark clothes when necessary back in the day. Oh, and before sewing machines, people used to create clothing with a needle and thread.
If that's all you got, you got nothing friend. Chill out.
"Jacob said...
The fact that the collar looks like a loose vagina goes without saying."
ROFLMAO. I love this blog, guys!
Gotham Tomato,
You've always been my favorite so keep it up. And to your point, I am sick of the anonymouse writer(s) too. To your point, their ilk is changing the tone of this blog where I feel like we are back to S3 final week. UGH
Honey. If you can't tell that this: We WANT to be polite and not make horrible character assumptions about people we don't know, so we feel JUST AWFUL about mentioning our observation that Marion comes off like some sort of pervert on camera, what with the paleness and the sweating and the darting eyes.
was a joke and not an actual character assessment, we don't know what to tell you. We're sure that some people were joking in their assessments of Sweet P but look at some of the very responses in this thread. There is a sizable number of people who don't really like her.
Understood. (And I understood it at the time it was written.) Yet it seems to me that there were a sizable number of people who took the pervert comment and ran with it. And that there were plenty of people who really didn't like Marion for whatever reason.
Here are a few examples pulled from other threads:
Marion seems like he has high serial killer potential to me.
not attractive. the rumpled boy goes home.
I know I'm in the minority here, but I liked Marion
A 39 year old man who dresses like a 10 year old newsboy from the depression is just...creepy.
I keep picking Marion to be out on the tresemme site. He just needs to go and I won't be satisfied until he's gone.
if he's already pushing 40 that's just damn creepy.
Marion resembles that sickly little Oliver Twist orphan character on the Simpsons. You know, the one who hacks up stuff.
Agreed on the perv vibe
You nailed it on all 3 counts. And I agree that Marion has a creepy vibe.
Just seems to me that the comments about Sweet P are being taken more literally than the comments about Marion. Not sure why. That's all.
Anonymous said...
"Rather than diss Sweet P, you should go after the male designers drooling over the models. Could we BE more unprofessional?
Ricky's "take off all your clothes" (or whatever he clearly enjoyed saying) and Rami's interview giggle were both worse than any Sweet P comments.
You didn't see Zulema getting all hot and bothered by the half-naked women. Be professional, boyz."
Um, did we see the same show???
I'm no defender of Ricky (see my post on an earlier thread). But he simply instructed his model to "take off your clothes" so that he could try the muslin samples on him -- not "all of your clothes" which would indeed suggest an altogether different desire. Granted, he did so somewhat abruptly, but that was because he realized he was in WAY over his becapped head. Panic mode, dear, not lust mode.
As for the other male designers' comments, they were hardly lascivious. More bemused methinks. And made to a producer/interviewer long after the models had left the workroom. So your accusation of unprofessionalism is a stretch -- if not completely unfounded.
But even if it weren't, we're talking gay men here! We're visual. We can't help but get excited when a half-naked hottie is standing in front of us! Do you honestly think Thom Browne or Dean & Dan Caten (D-Squared) don't occasionally bone up during fittings? Get real, sister!
I love to hear Heidi say Sweet P. She sounds so adorable. I love Sweet P. just for that. She seems okay to me.
Brilliant,
I did not freak out. I merely resented the implication by Anne that , for some reason, people who are "weird" should have some special kind of understanding on that basis. Tattoos are weird. Rubbing fabric on grass and spitting on it is weird. There's no necessary connection between the two. That was the intended point.
Frieda,
"I admit that I make certain assumptions about heavily tattooed people:
A) They're slavish followers who believe themselves to be rebellious individualists
Am I a bigot?"
The maximum assumption you can make about a tattooed person is that they like tattoos. Try not to draw any overarching assumptions about their feelings concerning conformity or nonconformity from it, because they're probably mistaken.
She seems nice enough and was smart to take responsibility for the steaming pile that went to the way (saved, of course, by also steaming -- but in a good way -- model. I totally thought American Psycho as soon as I saw him.).
I think it's the urge to give her a makeover, the same urge you get when you see a woman suffering from the Mommy syndrome -- you know they could do a lot better without losing their individualness. It's all about age appopriateness and fading tatoos and shlumpy clothes don't cut it in your mid-40's (for men or women). And if you're trying to be taken seriously as a fashion designer but can't dress yourself, it doesn't help your cause any.
I hate Sweet P, but it's not because I think she's a bitch. Because I don't think she's a bitch. I just find her ridiculously annoying to watch and listen to. At the same time, with the exception of Jillian, I find all of the girls this season ridiculously annoying to watch and listen to (though I give Elisa +10 for showing some vulnerability. and Kit for showing she actually can design).
Who I hate more between Sweet P and VictorYawn, I don't know yet. VYawn didn't get much airtime this week.
Her outfit looked beyond terrible on TV, but the majority of those flaws aren't in the pictures here...that's odd. I mean, obviously the collar, but other than that, in TLO's screencaps, her outfit doesn't look bad for a change. Weird. &as much as I dislike her, I'm happy Carmen went instead of her. I liked Carmen for a while, but the outfit...no.
But, more importantly since it involves my current favorites, do you guys think you can get a screencap of that piggy back ride Jack gave Christian in the workroom? because it was really cuteee. I love those boys.
I did not freak out. I merely resented the implication by Anne that , for some reason, people who are "weird" should have some special kind of understanding on that basis.
God, you ARE a tiresome little monkey, aren't you?
What I *said* was:
And you'd think she'd be a little more open to people with alternative lifestyles... I just did NOT get that.
As in, "Sweet P has a vibe going that suggests that she doesn't care about conventionality. You would think that she would display a little less judgmentalism when confronted with someone who is unconventional, albeit in a different way than she (Sweet P) is."
You *do* get the nature of the blog, right? You *have* been here long enough to know that this is what we *do* in the comments section, right?
Anne
You know, I'm looking at the sleeves again and I'm not sure they were a mistake. Don't they kind of look like they were supposed to be a 3/4 sleeve?
Anne
I know jack shit about sewing, but isn't making a collared shirt like Sewing 101 or something? I don't lknow- it just seemed basic. Thats wher eChristian is going to kick ass....he is fresh out of school and hasn't forgotten all that elementary stuff that I bet a few of the older ones are very out of practice with.
Heh, Melyssa, that's funny... Jillian's the woman I like least. But that's neither here nor there, I guess.
Anyhow... I thought the pants Sweet P made were really well-done, honestly. Yeah, okay, her model looks like a bishi boy in them, but I like bishi boys, so sue me. The rest of the outfit was a hideous mess, yes, but at least she did something right.
As to her personally, I can't decide, so I come down firmly in the middle: she hasn't done anything yet that makes me dislike her, but nor have I really taken to her.
" J Random Blogger said...
Heh, Melyssa, that's funny... Jillian's the woman I like least. But that's neither here nor there, I guess."
Ha! I was going to say the same thing. I can't stand Jillian!
Sweet P grew on me this ep. The collar? SharPei gone 7th Ave. Honestly, it was cringe-inducing,
I mean, her model would have had to have had Double D's up around his larynx to get that thing to fit. She was lucky.
Okay, so in the spirit of, "Yeah? Could you do better?" I would have probably taken a shears while it was on the model, slashed the bejezuz out of it and at least made it look like it was made for a human, not a giraffe hybrid, and called it neo-decon
Of all the designers on the show, Sweet P and Chris March are the least obnoxious and pretentious of the bunch.
I love Sweet P. I was really touched when she said that she had her own business and ran out of money, so she was hoping Project Runway would be her financial salvation. You can tell that she really want this.
The previews all portrayed Sweet P as the biker-bitch female-Jeffrey. What a nice surprise to find that she's sweet and normal and almost sisterly. People who are bothered by her tatoos and face should just get over it. Not all women aspire to look like supermodels.
I'm finding her to be pretty sweet. I'm still waiting to see if she has any talent.
I don't understand why she flattened the collar and put the tie over the top. I'm sure it would have looked a little better if the had just put the tie around the collar but left it loose (that would have held it up a bit.)
But I really loved how she was all, "No, trust me, the collar is even worse than it looks."
I have to say I'm really surprised to find such reactions to tattoos in the 21st century.
So someone has tattoos.. it makes them a bitch? Or it incites deep-seated feelings of hostility? I have to say I'm completely baffled by it. When I see someone with tattoos.. I just think, they have tattoos. Who cares? It doesn't make me like them more or less, and I don't think it's a big statement on their personality - unless they tattooed some really random things, like a facemask on their head. Even then, wouldn't it make more sense to have neutral stance? I really don't get it. At all.
As for Sweet P, she seems.. sweet. Don't see the throwing under the bus thing - I just went back and re-watched the judging scene from the last episode. She really seemed more like - I was nervous, but it worked out! And Elisa was the one that volunteered the spit mark.. I really don't see it. Then again, maybe I'm just biased which I'll admit to, though I really want to see Elisa win a challenge.
Maybe I just like her because she actually admits when there is an issue instead of arguing that no no, the model got excited and somehow messed it up. (hi, Santino season 2 with Kara?)
I agree with rainbrain - Sweet P's tats seem oddly juxtaposed with her frumpy kind of conservative-housewife persona.
As far as her pants giving the model hips: I thought she and Kit were both responding to Tiki's specifically saying he had a big ass. Kit's jacket wouldn't look so odd in back if it was on someone who was abundantly endowed back there. In fact I think the judges should have made more of a point of looking at how the designers dealt with the actual challenge, which wasn't just to make menswear but to make it for someone with a specific kind of body.
I don't understand all the flap about menswear - they've had it in past seasons. There was the challenge on Season 2 where they had to design for each other, and on Season 3 where they had to design for themselves. OK, not everyone had to do menswear on those challenges, but some of them did.
There were *some* belts - Steven and Ricky (the *only* thing he did right)
And Sweet P. Not a bitch, just. frantic. She seems like a nice person. But they all get overwhelmed, and in her it shows as fear a wacky competitor could get her elimanted and totally botching a shirt I'm sure she could sew. But that's the competition. Not just the 'best' designer, the best one in a pressure cooker (I'd love to see Kors do half this shit- THAT would be a great show)
Poor Sweet P, the thing was so bad it was comical.
" Henny Penny said...
I have to admit that Sweet P brings out the hostile in me. I think it's the tatoos. Seriously, I'm not joking. For some reason they just make me feel hostile towards her"
I give you credit for being honest, but I don't know how you can judge someone based on their tattoos. To me, it's almost like judging someone based on the color of their skin.
I personally am a little confused about the vein of Victorya hate that also runs rampant. So far she hasn't done or said anything reprehensible, other than win a challenge based on merits that perhaps weren't apparent to all viewers. In fact, she's been quite low-key and polite all this time. I'm not quite sure why subjectively interpreted unremarkableness is sparking anger in some people. But of course, some people apparently base their judgements on tattoos and piercings, so eh.
Although according to the preview edit, Victorya seems to be a part of some drama that brews next episode...hmmm.
Folks, she IS sweet!
" fruits*milk said...
I personally am a little confused about the vein of Victorya hate that also runs rampant. So far she hasn't done or said anything reprehensible, other than win a challenge based on merits that perhaps weren't apparent to all viewers."
Well, wait until you watch the nest episode.
I hate that they call her Sweet P. call her by her god given name.
Aw, I have to laugh. There's been some grumbling that this season is "boring", but look at us! Fightin' and defending our favorites.
Sweet P has to stay at least until Christmas -- I ordered her PR-Tee for my niece!
-- desertwind
PS - Need a break? Here's a very funny French & Saunders teenager & mother sketch. They "discuss" daughter's new tatoo.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txnhjjTFvSw&feature=related
"676 said...
Well, wait until you watch the nest episode."
I actually mention the possibility of next-episode victorya drama in my original post, but so far there's been nothing to warrant this level of dislike, in my opinion.
You could call that collar a seizure.
Well, true, in that preview Victorya seems to be paired with Ricky and arguing with him.
Who wouldn't?
-- desertwind
Call me a Sweet P fan. I liked her from the start. I never much dumped on Carmen either. On the whole, this group of designers is a likable lot. That's the problem with this season's PR: Bland as vanilla pudding, except for Elisa, bless her other worldly soul.
As to this episode's menswear challenge, I agree with you guys: It was a terrible idea. And the results were horrific. Frankly I didn't like Kit's outfit either. Too preppy and safe.
Anon 5:57 said:
"anonymous said...
LOLOL at the "Flying Monkeys" conspiracy.
"Her Friend Jeffrey" .... Friends?? Oh Right. Because everyone who has Tatoos are friends."
AFAIK, they ARE friends, no? (and also Santino) *scratches head*
Obviously, I have no issues with tattoos. My dh is covered in them and I will have some in a near future (spent 1/2 decade perfecting the designs). I'm as open-minded as they come, so I wouldn't judge either Sweet P. nor Elisa.
My issues with SP are that she made fun of Elisa in front of Tim and the judges. She wasn't straight out mean. SHe was "sweet" mean. *rolleyes*. Her face expressions are very passive-aggressive.
But, whatever... we are still in the beginning, let's see how it goes.
"Alexandra" was me. *shakes head*
Rewatched (it's on YouTube now).
The more I see of Sweet P the more I like her.
She's good people.
Ricky!, on the other hand, has got to go.
-- desertwind
Sweet P is a nice enough person and doing a decent job sewing-wise, but those tattoos are just so distracting. It's like Jeffrey all over again--I missed a lot of his stuff the first time around because I was too busy staring at his neck. Ick. Then when I actually looked at his clothes, I had to wonder who he was shagging to have stayed on to the end and then won the whole thing. The big difference is that Sweet P comes across as a nice person and Jeffrey spent the season acting like an utter asshole.
"catherine said: I give you credit for being honest, but I don't know how you can judge someone based on their tattoos. To me, it's almost like judging someone based on the color of their skin."
HA! You cannot be serious. I wasn't going to comment on this topic again, because it's just so silly, but this (above) is just unbelievable.
Tatoos are not race, or religion or anything else like that.
Tatoos are nothing but misguided trendiness rendered permanent.
I like what Frieda said: "A) They're slavish followers who believe themselves to be rebellious individualists-- an especially irritating combination."
That cracked me up.
I sure wouldn't want to be permanently sewn into fashion choices I made in my 20's. But if I was, I'd expect to be looked at the same way Lydia the tatooed lady is by many.
In addition, you know, I'm not a doctor, though I have been known to play doctor (or naughty nurse), but I digress...my point: A little tatoo, maybe a tiny heart in your bikini line, or a small Mickey Mouse on your ass, is entirely different than someone who covers themselves with tatoos. That is some kind of weird obsession, and you can't expect to do things like that and then balk when people look at you funny.
--Gotham Tomato
Suzanne asks some time back about collared shirts (sorry, my HTML tags aren't working).
Since I refuse to be a hater, I'll just comment here as a long-time seamstress (I think "sewer" invites the wrong homonym), collars are not easy, nor are fitting sleeve caps. It takes experience. (It also takes interfacing.) That's why making a t-shirt or nehru-like collar is a cop-out. Based on what I've seen of Sweet P's stylings, I doubt she's worked much with fitted sleeves or collars. Hence the issue of technical skill versus design sensibilities.
I remember thinking Jeffrey's bodices were pretty whacked out. It seemed like he didn't know how to put the pieces together, but that might have been the whole "deconstructed" schtick. Hard to tell from TeeVee.
A comment about all the hate. I wish I were in grad school working on my psychology thesis. Blogs would be a great research subject with regard to projection, etc.
As it's often said, "I'm just sayin'."
Sorry to bring the room down - but in honor of World Aids Day - how about a moment of reflection today?
profp
gothamtomato, your comment is dripping with assumptions.
you assume that people get tattoo because they are slaves to trends.
you seem to assume that people only get tattoos in their twenties.
worst of all, you assume that anyone who has more than the number or type of tattoo that you find personally acceptable has "some kind of weird obsession."
to top it all off, you feel this justifies your dislike of a person.
no matter how much you want to laugh it off, it's bigotry.
and it's ugly.
consider this: sometimes people get tattoos merely as a way of expressing themselves or because they think it's beautiful.
and consider this: people are different from you and that doesn't make them strange and unlikeable.
-moira-
tattoos on other people don't bother me at all -- it's their choice how to present themselves to the world.
i almost talked myself into a lower arm sleeve about 10 years ago, but then i started thinking about my earlier-life choices on how to present myself.
what finally decided me against the ink was my favorite pair of shoes in 1985. i got them in paris on my first trip there: a pair of extra-pointy toed black suede ankle boots that were embossed with paisleys.
'nuf said.
"anne said: God, you ARE a tiresome little monkey, aren't you?"
LOL. That is my new favorite phrase. I will make a point of trying to use it.
--Gotham Tomato
"Moira said: gothamtomato, your comment is dripping with assumptions."
Thank you. I try. But God, you ARE a tiresome little monkey, aren't you? (Thanks Anne).
"...you assume that people get tattoo because they are slaves to trends.
you seem to assume that people only get tattoos in their twenties."
Hmmm...I do assume that people get wiser as they get older, but maybe I should rethink that. And tatoos (as larger acceptability) ARE a trend, and one that is hard to erase, unlike a bad poodle perm or Joan Crawford shoulders.
"worst of all, you assume that anyone who has more than the number or type of tattoo that you find personally acceptable has "some kind of weird obsession." "
Actually, I feel that zero is the acceptable number, but do go on...
"...to top it all off, you feel this justifies your dislike of a person."
no matter how much you want to laugh it off, it's bigotry.
and it's ugly."
But not as ugly as that shirt SweetP trotted down the runway. Reading comprehension; it's a wonderful thing.
There are numerous reasons why I've grown to not like SweetP, but as I've said right from the start, even before seeing her designs; would I take fashion advice from a 40 year old wearing a dress with knee socks & covered in tatoos?? Um, no. Is that bigotry? Um, no.
It's just a difference of aethetics and taste. And isn't that what most of us comment on here? People who actually have been on the receiving end of bigotry wouldn't make such a daft argument.
Bigotry is stereotyping and discriminating, and benign neglect against people because of their race, or religion, etc. Bigotry, we can remember today, December 1, is ignoring a health crisis because it is killing people whom you feel are morally inferior or insignificant, or because you're afraid your son being 'a dancer' will hurt your political career.
Commenting about a designer, who lacks taste, or ability or because of their behavior towards other designers, and throwing in jokes about their tatoos is not bigotry. But hey, hey, I think you have time to catch the last train to Clarksville. (Sweet P will be waiting for you at the station).
--Gotham Tomato
I like Sweet P, hate the alias, being a woman of a certain age, I actually like the tats. I wouldn't walk around like that but, you know, whatever. I am beginning to like Elsie also, who reminds me of the Jaminez, the Killer from California.
I was so glad to see Carmen go, fug designer from her website, fug attitude, and no we did not need the 'crazy bitchiness of black girl with attitude, and fierce (mark that uncombed) hair and ethnocentric garb' Go back to central casting.
p.s.
I do love that Jack is always carrying Christian and when he gets put down Christian says 'Tan-kew'
gothamtomato, read your first comment on this post.
"P.S. I do get the bitch vibe from Sweet P. I get it from the facial asides; from the way she tried to throw Elisa under the bus; and the hideous tatoos don't help."
that's bigotry. you're trying to whitewash it by claiming its the same thing as saying "i hate the way she dresses," but you're saying "i think she's a bitch because she has tattoos."
bigotry comes in all forms and darling you are one bigoted little monkey. all the quips in the world arent going to change that.
-moira-
Tattoos are a trend?
Hunh. A 5000-year-old "trend." How about that.
Wow, Gotham. You lost lost 1798 cookie points on my book. :-(
Yes, young people may make a tattoo for foolish reasons, but don't grouping everybody together, dude.
Being an artist myself (and NOT having any tattoos as of yet!), I see tattoo as one of the highest form of art. I mean, you can't go much higher than skin...
I'm not young and I've been through much in my life. Irresponsible youth, ADD, lost best friends, motherhood and having a special needs child. All my future tattoos are being "perfected" to represent (to me) exactly what I want them to.
On the other hand, I would rather have a garment or a purse made OOAK with care by an unknown designer than one made in a sweatshop, just because there's a tiny piece of fabric with somebody famous' name.
Also, and more importantly, by the end of the day (or life), or we turn into ash or we are eaten by bugs. Might as well be colorful!
On paragraph 4, I wanted to add that tattoos can be and often is) a form of healing.
And on paragraph 5, I meant to add that I'm not "trendy" in any aspect of my life.
"anonymous moira said: bigotry comes in all forms and darling you are one bigoted little monkey."
And stupidity humorlessness also come in all forms. But wait...maybe I should rethink...
Oh gosh. You got me. Up til now I didn't realize that thinking tatoos are tacky was anything other than sensible. But, you've shown me the light: I'm a bad ol bigot, and while I'm confessing, here is a partial list of the many other things I'm prejudiced against:
comb-overs
acid washed jeans
hair scrunchies
people who view Bill O'Reilly with anything other
than mocking derision
the 'colors' teal and mauve
overgrown nose hair
Crocs
mom jeans
politicians who claim to speak for Jesus
anyone named 'Hilton'
40 year old women wearing knee socks with mini dresses
hairdos with Pepe LePew-like stripes in them
raindrops on roses & whiskers on kittens
plaid on anything other than kilts
speedos on middle-aged men (fat or skinny - doesn't matter)
SPAM & eggs
socks with sandals
dirty fingernails
BPR
humor-challenged teens who really shouldn't be playing with grown ups
There. My burden has been lifted. Now that I've seen the light, I sure hope that none of us ever pass judgement on any of the clothes of any of the designers ever again. That would be just too, too bigoted, and we can't have that. We'll be watching you Moira, to show us the way: No judgements.
Love, luck & lollipops,
--Gotham Tomato
Sally said, "A comment about all the hate. I wish I were in grad school working on my psychology thesis. Blogs would be a great research subject with regard to projection, etc."
Indeed, it would! We see edited footage of people we've never met, and based on that we hate them? "I don't like the way he treated X", "I don't like her designs", "I think her taste is in her mouth", "He behaves like a jerk", that's one thing. But hate? I don't get it.
"Lelê said...
Wow, Gotham. You lost lost 1798 cookie points on my book. :-("
That's OK. I'm trying to cut back on the carbs. But, what's with the " :-( " in your post? Are you mocking depressed people?
I don't like tatoos. So, sue me. Sheesh.
--Gotham Tomato
gothamtomato, you are not only being deliberately obtuse but youre backpedaling. Dislike tattoos all you want. there's nothing wrong with having an opinion on the practice. that's not what this is about. you said that you thought sweet p was a bitch and you admitted that you thought so partly because she has tattoos. you listed a bunch of other things you don't like like acid washed jeans and combovers. what you didn't do is claim that people who have those things are bitches. you see the difference?
-moira-
ps. my name is moira. calling me "anonymous moira" when you sign your posts gothamtomato is the height of irony, not to mention hypocrisy.
Gotham- isn't it cute how the newbies get all hot under the collar when they wander onto this blog and don't realize THIS isn't the one where we have to kiss ass?
BTW- thanks Sally- I am being 100% honest when I say I know absolutely NOTHING about sewing and I just assumed collared shirts was something everyone who has formal training learns how to do.....point taken. I actually like Sweet P. Her reactions to Elisa last week were exactly what mine USED to be....until I read Elisa's Wikipedia entry. I now have a new respect for her. Girlfriend is no joke. She has showed in Bryant park already, more than once.....
but THAT is a whole other subject.
"anonymous moira said: you are not only being deliberately obtuse but youre backpedaling. Dislike tattoos all you want. there's nothing wrong with having an opinion on the practice. that's not what this is about. you said that you thought sweet p was a bitch and you admitted that you thought so partly because she has tattoos. you listed a bunch of other things you don't like like acid washed jeans and combovers. what you didn't do is claim that people who have those things are bitches. you see the difference?"
Um, no. What I do see is that; you an idiotic pest, have very poor reading comprehension, don't understand that blog conversations are linear, and are severely humor impaired (and you know what that means- well, actually, you probably don't).
And no, I'm not backpeddling. Comb-overs & acid washed jeans are tacky, just like tatoos are. I listed reasons I was getting the 'bitch vibe' from SweetP were, her behavior towards Elisa, her facial asides (that means caught reactions to others), and I think a few other things along the way, & I added that 'the tatoos don't help'. They don't. They are ugly and she looks ridiculous in them.
They are no different than any other body adorment, from jewelry to clothes - the only difference is they're permanent. People who have gotten tatoos do not belong to an oppressed minority group, & people who do not like tatoos, or who judge them for their body adornments are no more 'bigoted' (your beyond idiotic assertion), than anyone who doesn't like any of the other body adorments I mentioned, and beyond. It's no different than any other judgement based on fashion - which is all it is- which IS what we're doing here, right? Judging fashion? Duh.
You are arguing just to argue, and you have no point.
*Side note: Would it be too un-pc to give out a 'Heather Mills Award' to anonymous moira here?
Maybe there's some sort of remedial blog somewhere, where everything is spelled out clearly enough for you, all the time.
Buh, bye.
--Gotham Tomato
"Suzanne said...
Gotham- isn't it cute how the newbies get all hot under the collar when they wander onto this blog and don't realize THIS isn't the one where we have to kiss ass?"
Yes. They're so cute when they're angry. And if they're getting hot under the collar in SweetP's outfit, I can see why they're so grumpy (not to mention dopey).
--Gotham Tomato
C'mon guys, don't you think this is getting a little out of hand? I know the boys encourage us to speak our minds, but this is a bit too much, I think. And again, this is just my opinion. We come here to have fun, to share our thoughts on the show, the designers. Let's not fight, let's not turn this fabulous blog into a nasty place.
Hear, hear!
too scared to even give her first name gotham tomato said:
"Um, no. What I do see is that; you an idiotic pest, have very poor reading comprehension, don't understand that blog conversations are linear, and are severely humor impaired (and you know what that means- well, actually, you probably don't).
And no, I'm not backpeddling. Comb-overs & acid washed jeans are tacky, just like tatoos are. I listed reasons I was getting the 'bitch vibe' from SweetP were, her behavior towards Elisa, her facial asides (that means caught reactions to others), and I think a few other things along the way, & I added that 'the tatoos don't help'. They don't. They are ugly and she looks ridiculous in them."
backpedal faster, anonymous gt! faster! you said you thought she was abitch and you said that the tattoos were part of the reason you thought that. thats hugely different from saying theyre ugly or tacky and you know it.
"They are no different than any other body adorment, from jewelry to clothes - the only difference is they're permanent. People who have gotten tatoos do not belong to an oppressed minority group, & people who do not like tatoos, or who judge them for their body adornments are no more 'bigoted' (your beyond idiotic assertion), than anyone who doesn't like any of the other body adorments I mentioned, and beyond. It's no different than any other judgement based on fashion - which is all it is- which IS what we're doing here, right? Judging fashion? Duh."
and i'm the one with the reading comprehension problem? show me where - anywhere on this blog - someone said "that skirt is so ugly that she must be stupid" or "that outfit makes me think she's a bitch. you weren't judging fashion. you were judging a person based on how they look.
"You are arguing just to argue, and you have no point."
saying it doesn't make it so, unnamed one. one more thing: you impugned my intelligence at least a halfdozen times today. i haven't returned that insult once. it says a lot about you that you can't disagree without hauling out schoolyard taunts.
and suzanne? i've been here since month one. i started using my name now because suddenly it became passe to comment anonymously. i'm not a newbie and i love this blog for its bitchiness but i can't recall seeing the boys ever practice the kind of bigotry scaredtomato practiced here. you wanna say sweet p is abitch, great. saying she's a bitch because she has tattoos, not so great.
-moira-
Ladies, let's take it down a notch. Disagreement is fine, but when we start attacking and insulting each other, that's going too far.
"Tattoos are a trend?
Hunh. A 5000-year-old "trend." How about that."
Really? In Western culture? Not!
Tattoos have only very recently (last couple of decades tops) become *somewhat* more socially acceptable in western culture. Good luck getting a good white collar job or even being accepted into the military if you have a tattoo that isn't well hidden by your clothing/uniform.
Frieda, you're fabulous when you say:
"I admit that I make certain assumptions about heavily tattooed people:
A) They're slavish followers who believe themselves to be rebellious individualists-- an especially irritating combination.
B) They're blind to the fact that all is fashion, and permanent aesthetic choices are unwise."
LMAO...I'm with you on that!
snf in va said...
"Really? In Western culture? Not!"
Who said anything about Western culture?
snf in va said, Tattoos have only very recently (last couple of decades tops) become *somewhat* more socially acceptable in western culture.
They were pretty popular among the British upper classes in the 19th-century. Queen Victoria had a tattoo. So did Lady Randolph (Jennie) Churchill, Winston's mother. George V had one, as did other European royalty, like Czar Nicholas.
Piercings, too. Why do you think it's called a Prince Albert?
"Who said anything about Western culture?"
Nobody. Thanks for making my point for me. Tattoos are indeed a recent trend in Western culture...the practice has been around for a long time in other parts of the world to be sure.
"They were pretty popular among the British upper classes in the 19th-century."
Another good point. The British upper classes represent a VERY narrow segment of the population at best, and you refer to a period some 100+ years ago. A passing trend back then, too, evidently.
As for the so-called prince Albert piercing, that name is widely acknowledged to have been coined relatively recently as a way to lend some, er, respectability the practice.
I'll be interested to see how all of you folks feel about body art when you realize how poorly tattoos and piercings age over time.
I'm glad you're not talking about me, since calling me a noobie would be laughable at best! :-))
And, Gotham, the ":-( " was because I always dug you and was blind sided by your comments...
Tattoo's and peircing are not trends.
These things have been going on since the dawn of man (google Otzi the iceman). While everyone is entitled to like or dislike them, they are here to stay and don't (in themselves) represent a slavery to being part of "club". Some tattoo's can be very meaningful and have nothing to do with fashion, such as portraits or symbols of loved ones or spiritual tatto's. True there are some people who get tattoo's to be trendy or rebelious, but these people do not represent the entire tattoed community or the history of the purpose of tattoo's.
If you hate it fine... more power to ya, but lets not make broad judgements about a large number of people just because they put things on their body that you don't like for yourself.
J Random Blogger & Laurent -
Of course, each to their own, I won't hold anything against you, but what do you dislike about Jillian? I know she's getting a terrible edit and is practically invisible with this cast of princesses and babies, but I find her to be quite sweet. I'm just curious on why you guys don't like her.
@ the tatoo issue, I can't say I can use that as a reason for my dislike for Sweet P. Because practically everyone has a ridiculous tatoo on their arm, so if I let it slide for say Christian or Jack, I kindof feel the need to let it slide for the ones I don't like so much. *shrug*
"I'll be interested to see how all of you folks feel about body art when you realize how poorly tattoos and piercings age over time."
I still love mine and it's over a decade old. I'm 41 now. I doubt very much I'm going to change my mind about it between now and old age.
-Tom
"melyssa said: Because practically everyone has a ridiculous tatoo on their arm, so if I let it slide for say Christian or Jack, I kindof feel the need to let it slide for the ones I don't like so much. *shrug*"
Jack has tatoos? I never even noticed. I couldn't see past the muscles.
--Gotham Tomato
"I still love mine and it's over a decade old. I'm 41 now. I doubt very much I'm going to change my mind about it between now and old age.
-Tom"
That's great!
I'm not against anyone having it done, I simply choose not to: it's very permanent and not a decision to made lightly. The first time I even came close to considering getting one was 30 years ago. I can take a long time to make certain types of decisions, and can guarantee that I would have changed my mind about any design over time.
My DH has ones that are over 30 yrs old (he got them the old fashioned way, while in the Navy, on leave and very drunk), and they look really bad, most of the colors have faded, and it's difficult to tell what they were supposed to represent.
From what I gather, newer inks and techniques have improved, but everyone I know who has had a tattoo for more than 20 years is pretty much indifferent about them at best.
Another problem is that skin sags, discolors, and thins with age, which doesn't really enhance the tattoos.
Sweet P looks adorably child-like in that last screen shot with the necktie, weird heightened by her tatoos.
"I still love mine and it's over a decade old. I'm 41 now. I doubt very much I'm going to change my mind about it between now and old age."
Even if you do change you mind, you might just forget it's there. It happens.
I heard a story once, about Jerry Lewis meeting a fan who told him that he had a tatoo of him (Jerry) on his penis, and he insisted on showing it to him.
Now, I don't like tatoos (have I ever mentioned that?), and I don't have a penis, but even if I did, I don't know why a person would want one on his penis, and even if he did, why Jerry Lewis? Was his boyfriend named Dean? The mind boggles. But I hope you're not that fan.
I find the whole thing (no pun intended) mystifying. And just as mystifying, who knew tatoos were such a hot-button issue?
--Gotham Tomato
"And just as mystifying, who knew tatoos were such a hot-button issue?"
No kidding!
"GothamTomato said...
Jack has tatoos? I never even noticed. I couldn't see past the muscles."
He has these stars on his elbows. I think something else somewhere on his arms but I know he has at least the stars.
gothamtomato and snf in va, your posts make me happy every time.
Can I be your friend? You're both terrific.
"And just as mystifying, who knew tatoos were such a hot-button issue?"
The issue is more about the assumptions individuals chose to make about people with tatoos. Lumping tatoos into the "tacky" category with acid washed jeans didn't strike me as amusing or witty, I think it's a narrow, provincial way to look at a form of self-expression. Any time social/cultural norms evolve to encourage harmless expressions of personal identity, the world is more interesting.
Sweet P's whole "I don't even know what polymorphic means" drama came off as a cheap ploy to get the judges to perceive Elisa as "different" and therefore "wrong". I understand that the judges asked her to comment on her partnership with Elisa but she looked more eager to discuss her problems with Elisa's process than to emphasize the successful outcome.
Sweet Pea is the idiot for NOT knowing what polymorphic means rather than Elisa being "strange" for wanting to create a polymorphic piece.
"and suzanne? i've been here since month one. -moira-"
Well then Moira, you know how it goes down here....don't you remember the posts about Jeffrey and the neck tattoo last season? Why didn't anyone freak out then?
Ok- now lets all hold hands and sing Kumbaya.
PS- Have a tat, getting another at some point....just looking for the right artist for what I want....and STILL love me some Gotham Tomato- even if she isn't big on tats. At least I don't wear crocs or mom jeans. LOL
I almost got a tatoo back in '78, but a sailor on the ferry over to Dockside, East End, London talked me out of it.
My question is why this trend toward really ugly mishmash trashy-style tatoos? Sweet P's are hardly the ugliest example of it in that room.
-- desertwind
gotham, I think I love you. Will you marry me?
Anne
I LOVE whiskers on kittens! (what is sweet P's real name? I like one of the anons earlier would like her sooooooooooo much better if that were not her nom de plume (de guerre?)
I think the "bitch" label for Sweet P is coming from how she treated Elisa after the SJP challenge. Elisa was gracious and tried to make Sweet P feel better about being picked so late in the choosing of teams. How did Sweet P repay her?
By trying to undermine Elisa on the runway, even though the judges liked Elisa's work. Sweet P was covering her ass and HAD to ridicule Elisa and try to make her look bad, just in case there was an auf'ing coming.
I thought Sweet P was unnecessarily mean-spirited and her attitude towards Elisa narrow-minded, which is ironic because Sweet P is as much of a freak as Elisa is, if not more. Elisa seems like a nice person who is genuinely affected by criticism and not a diva.
Sweet P could be nicer, esp. consider Elisa can sew circles around Sweet P. I think Elisa will have the last laugh, because if this challenge was any indication, Sweet P ain't gonna make it nearly as far.
catherine: I give you credit for being honest, but I don't know how you can judge someone based on their tattoos. To me, it's almost like judging someone based on the color of their skin.
Ah, but you are born with the color of your skin. Tattoos are a deliberate choice.
None of the agencies I deal with will send anyone out for a front office position if they have visible tattoos and/or piercings (excessive, anyway). Short of filling in at the local record shop, decorating your body like that will guarantee you a position that doesn't deal with the public.
"None of the agencies I deal with will send anyone out for a front office position if they have visible tattoos and/or piercings (excessive, anyway). Short of filling in at the local record shop, decorating your body like that will guarantee you a position that doesn't deal with the public."
Fuck! You mean a tatoo might cost someone the exciting opportunity to work the front desk at a lawyers office or receptionist duty at an insurance agency? That sucks.
" td said...
gothamtomato and snf in va, your posts make me happy every time.
Can I be your friend? You're both terrific."
What a lervely message to read on a dreary Sunday morning.
"I almost got a tatoo back in '78, but a sailor on the ferry over to Dockside, East End, London talked me out of it.
-- desertwind"
Ha! I toyed with getting a nose piercing on a trip to London in '77: the girl in the shop on King's Road talked me out of it..."you'll wish you hadn't once you catch a cold, luv"
"Fuck! You mean a tatoo might cost someone the exciting opportunity to work the front desk at a lawyers office or receptionist duty at an insurance agency? That sucks."
You have a very limited notion of what positions deal with the public...actors and models can, and do, get rejected for roles because of their tattos, lawyers might not get that courtroom time they need to pump up their resume, sales reps lose clients, etc., etc.
"You mean a tatoo might cost someone the exciting opportunity to work the front desk at a lawyers office or receptionist duty at an insurance agency? "
I know you're being sarcastic, but I just want to point out that it might also cost someone the opportunity to be hired as a lawyer. A discreet ankle tattoo, or tatoos that are covered up when you put on a suit, that's okay. But I guarantee you that if someone came looking for a job in my office with tats like Sweet P or Jeffrey, odds are good they wouldn't get it.
Oh, and the guy with multiple ear piercings takes the earrings out before he goes to court.
When you represent a client, you dress conservatively, because those folks who don't think much of Sadie the Tattooed Lady are sitting on the jury (and on the bench). I won't even wear a trouser suit for a jury trial for that reason. It's about my client, not about me, and I won't have him hurt just because I want to make a fashion statement.
I thought I'd give "Sweet P" the benefit of the doubt even though I find it annoying when people over 30 go by childish nicknames.
The comments she made about being stuck with Eliza after Eliza was so gracious and welcoming in saying, "I chose Sweet P - she is the one I wanted from the start." Awww, come on -- did no one else see how gentle and reaffirming that was for to the person left for last? Sweet P's response was like biting the hand that that feeds you. She never missed an opportunity to make cutting remarks about Eliza -- in front of her and behind her back.
For someone who wants to be thought of as an individual, she is hypocritical in her treatment of another person who is truly idiosyncratic. I think she does it to divert attention from herself -- which is all the more graceless.
Don't care for her designs and don't care for her. Nothing sweet that I can see about her. Just a fake.
"lilithcat said: it might also cost someone the opportunity to be hired as a lawyer."
I once had to hire a lawyer for a real estate transaction, and when I went to the initial meeting, I saw that he had dirty fingernails. That said to me (right away); poor attention to detail. So I hired someone else.
--Gotham Tomato
Gotham dear,
A burning question:
Do you like mullets, or was that just an omission?
I must say, I've been proud to know you throughout this exchange, but the mullet issue does have me a tad worried about our future together...
"snf in va said...
Gotham dear,
A burning question:
Do you like mullets, or was that just an omission?"
Talk about a glaring omission! How could I have forgotten mullets? And golf. I must have been having an off day.
--Gotham Tomato
So does everyone hate Christian, Kevin and Jack for their multiple tattoos too? Or is this a woman thing?
Okay, you guys have finally pushed my curiosity level past my hesitation to comment...
Could someone point me to the S3 posts when the Lil' Peanut cohorts began campaigning?
I don't recall that. How do we know they were "plants"?
It's probably not good for me to dig up the past and find even MORE reasons to dislike He Who Shall Not be Named (a good designer, but EVIL), but I can't seem to resist...
So far, is anyone else finding this season rather ho-hum?
The fact that we're spending so much time discussing the merits of tatoos: is it because the designs and challenges leave us so little to discuss?
- NonAnon
Tats or no-tats, this outfit was that of a clown's, and it is the outfit which belonged in the freak show.
I don't believe that she is a bitch, but I still hold firm on the new name of "Not-So-Sweet P".
I's glaringly obvious, isn't it, that Gothanm Tomato is posting under SEVERAL different names?
Every so often there is a post like:
"Gotham Tomato you are my favorite."
"Gotham Tomato, you are funnier than TLO!"
"I love you ... you're my favorite on this blog!"
LOL ... It's just too hilarious.
Good God - the drama, wow.
The outfit was ass - I'm inbetween on Sweet P. On the one hand, I do think she was kind of a bitch on the runway about Elisa, when it was totally unnecessary to even bring up the spit mark bullshit -- on the other hand, Elisa does live in a totally different universe. I'm a big fan of non-scary crazy (Vincent = scary crazy, he will cut you -- Elisa = fucking screwy but harmless and entertaining/interesting), and I like Elisa, but I would be apprehensive about working with someone unorthadox in a time sensitive assignment too (I'm far too Type-A, even if I do like to fly my own freak flag). Still, I totally got the bitch vibe - and that doesn't mean she can't design well or that I can't come around - but the vibe is there.
As for the tattoo drama - OMG, can we get any more insane? Seriously, I have a tattoo (on my pelvis, only visible if I'm in crotch-pants or a bikini - it's a film reel, I love it - I expect it will be laser-removed in a decade), but really don't think that someone else saying that she doesn't like tattoos and that being covered in them would make it harder to immediately be open and trust that person's POV when it comes to style (which is so freaking subjective anyway, come on) to be bigotry. You have to really reach to make that conclusion. In fact, to prove how far you have to reach - I'll just argue that everyone who has problems with people who don't like tattoos are bigots. See. Equally asinine.
Her tats don't bug me - I think they are unattractive (and I think some ink can be totally, totally attractive/interesting), but they don't bother me in the slightest. I also think her personal style sucks -- but I think Patricia Fields' personal style sucks too (and I love Pat Fields' costuming work - LOVE it) -- if Sweet P can put out some kick ass clothes, I don't care if she's dressed like Kelly Kapowski while being the size of Valerie Malone at her chubbiest (not saying Sweet P is fat - saying that Tiffani Amber Thiessen got chub for a supposedly "hot" actress on 90210 and if she wore the hideous shit she wore on SBTB on 90210, we would all be dead from the fugly) -- but if she's going to make screwed up shirts and hide gorgeous Baby Gecko's hotness from us, then yes, I will make fun of her clothes. Shit, even if she suddenly morphed into Tom Ford himself, I would make fun of her clothes.
Because I'm a bigot. No. Because I'm a commenter on a blog that gets bitchy about fashion.
"NOT Gotham Tomato said...
I's glaringly obvious, isn't it, that Gothanm Tomato is posting under SEVERAL different names?"
Sorry, but no.
And why would I ask me to marry me? Sure, it might be fun to watch Rick Santorum's head explode, but I have better things to do with my time.
--GothamTomato
She was a bitch to Elisa, and seems to think she is somehow better. She is not. She is roadkill. That's enough reason to dislike her. Hate? Well, I'll reserve that for Jeffrey.
"As for the tattoo drama - OMG, can we get any more insane? Seriously, I have a tattoo (on my pelvis, only visible if I'm in crotch-pants or a bikini - it's a film reel, I love it - I expect it will be laser-removed in a decade), but really don't think that someone else saying that she doesn't like tattoos and that being covered in them would make it harder to immediately be open and trust that person's POV when it comes to style (which is so freaking subjective anyway, come on) to be bigotry."
T Lo asked us to drop it and I did, but this is a complete misrepresentation of what was said.
-moira-
gothamtomato said:
And why would I ask me to marry me? Sure, it might be fun to watch Rick Santorum's head explode, but I have better things to do with my time.
That was me. :)
I'm not gothamtomato. I wish. One can only aspire...
Anne
It only makes me sad that at this day and age, we still judge people for their choices, whatever they are.
As long as you (general you) are not hurting the next, oh by golly, choose whatever makes you happy! :-)))
Let's hug it out, biches! ;-)
Happy Holidays!
Hmmmm, the model is a little too slick, boys. I'd like to see him all mussy and sweaty and snarling with passion. THEN we'll talk.
:fans self delicately:
What shirt? All I saw was the hottest man on the runway. What a face and why oh why was it not a wet underwear challange?
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