New York Magazine has an eye-opening article about what happens to Bravo reality show contestants after their 15 minutes are up. We were really happy to read this because it contains stuff that we'd been hearing for a while but didn't have the right to publish ourselves. Bravo doesn't come off that great here and Heidi has a real bitchquote at the end.
Some choice bits (but you really need to read the whole thing):
Jay:
“I haven’t been living anywhere for two years,” he says. “I sleep at other people’s houses. I sleep here if I’m drunk.”
“I have a fucking gazillion e-mails from all over the world from people asking, Why isn’t your stuff out there?” says Jay. “Yet financially, I have no way to get them a product because I got pushed out of a boat and into the ocean, as if, Oh, you can survive now.”
(Photo: Jessica Wynne)
Andrae:
"Today, he still sews the odd custom dress for $1,500, and he teaches too, but he makes a fair chunk of his money doing gigs that exploit his reality-show fame, like hosting events at gay bars in Pittsburgh. He knows this won’t last. “I tell everyone I’m not a star,” he says. “I’m a brown dwarf.”
Austin:
"Austin Scarlett, the young Quentin Crisp from the first season of Project Runway, says he was approached about a role on Heather Graham’s short-lived sitcom, Emily’s Reasons Why Not. Today he wonders if he should have mulled it over. “Because I don’t think you should turn down work that much,” he says. “That’s one of my continuing struggles, being considered a reality-TV, you know, star.” I ask if he’s ever done TV gigs he’s come to regret. “Yeeeeeeeees,” he says. “Battle of the Network Reality Stars.” Shortly afterward, he appeared on a reality reunion show on Bravo, too. “I felt so cheap and tawdry,” he says. “They gave me $500, and I was like, Keep the money. It was just part of my confusion, grasping for the next thing.”
Nick:
“When they asked me why I wanted to be on Project Runway,” says Nick Verreos, 40, who made the fetching Barbie dress from Season Two (it sold for $1,700 on projectrunway.com), “I said I wanted to use it as a trampoline. Because I knew I was doing fierce stuff, but nobody was noticing.”
Santino:
“No one wanted to interview Chloe,” Santino says. “I’m sure I did like 500 percent more interviews. That’s what I won.”
"I crack myself up by saying, It’s lucky that I turn things down so that Nick has stuff to do,” says Santino."
“Between Heidi and Michael Kors and Nina Garcia, the judges were like a three-headed monster,” he says. “They all basically have the same point of view. I mean, have one avant-garde person who has an art-as-fashion approach, rather than fashion-as-commerce approach.” Then, of course, he made an almost perversely beautiful collection for Fashion Week, and the judges said there wasn’t enough of him in it. “And it’s like, Really?” he asks. “Gee, that’s funny, because I made this shit!”
Laura:
"When Laura, hugely popular with fans, failed to notify the network she’d signed a contract to host a style show on MSN.com, they called and demanded an explanation. “And I said, ‘So what do you have to offer me?’ ” she says. (She’s now in talks with Bravo about doing something for its Website and iVillage.)"
UPDATE: "Is Jay McCarroll Homeless? He Sure Said So (and So Did His Publicist)." Read it here.
103 comments:
Fantastic article! Thank you for the link, Boys!
Ouch. Heidi could've been a tad nicer.
Jay turned DOWN two out of the three prizes! The money and the internship!
He has some nerve bitching now that they just threw him out there!
I thought Austin was doing wedding dresses or something?
Anne
The bottom line is some of them are talented and will succeed on their own - look at Emmett or Chloe - and some are just footage for Bravo. Santino is a prime example of the latter.
They ALL got their fifteen minutes of fame which is more then most people get in the course of their lifetime.
"After enduring the rigors of the show, however -- the sleeplessness, the loneliness, the intense public scrutiny -- many of the contestants believe, with some justification, that they're entitled to the financial rewards the world offers them without Bravo's intervention."
They signed up for it when they became public figures! Celebrities have no problem using the media to suit their own purposes, so they must be willing to take the good with the bad.
great article-love the behind the scenes info.
I'm still hoping for Shear Genius, Season Two....
Dear Anne:
Read the article before you knife Jay. According to him, all BR did was offer to give him the phone numbers of factories in Asia. If he had taken the money, the Weinsteins owned 10% of his brand (which he didn't even have at the time) in perpetuity. (That means, forever).
Austin is doing well at kenneth Poole. I wish they had mentioned Emmett, who in a lot of ways seems to be the most successful. But he's appropriated the best model -- acquire experience in the business, start modestly, leverage the fame you have, turn out well-priced, well-made merchandise.
In Jay's defense, Emmett had a lot more corporate experience than did Jay, and a better temperament as well. Jay could calm down some (though let's face it, it's not like designers are uniformly known for their maturity). He needs a Dutch uncle -- some corporate exec at a place like urban outfitters. In fact, Jay, if you are reading this and haven't tried that tack, do it. Find a place you'd like to be in, and just ask for help getting there. That approach is much more appealing than pointing out how you've been screwed; because brother, we all have at one point.
FashionFanatic said...
The bottom line is some of them are talented and will succeed on their own - look at Emmett or Chloe - and some are just footage for Bravo. Santino is a prime example of the latter.
Couldn't agree more. Heidi's soundbite, albeit unearthmotherly, is reasonable. Be prepared, people! That's an integral part of life, whether you get an opportunity or a setback, be ready to handle it.
Emma P.
Why would they blame Bravo? The majority of contestants on reality shows are searching for their chance at 15 seconds of fame. And in order for them to get that fleeting moment of stardom Bravo, NBC or any other channel, need to make good TV. It's a TV REALITY SHOW.
Some people seek success in private, some in public. Just deal with the consequences!
Y'know, I've never been a big fan of Heidi's but I have to say I don't think she really said anything wrong in that article.
The article gives a somewhat skewed perspective on what happens after being on a reality show like Project Runway because it ignores success stories like Chloe and Emmett. Granted contestants like Chloe and Jeffrey already had fairly successful businesses before the show, but they've taken their appearance to the next level. I imagine that Laura will do the same because she's someone with a good head on her shoulders and real world experience.
Some of the more immature contestants like Jay and Daniel V will continue to struggle because they expect the world from their brief TV appearance. That's simply unrealistic.
Actually, I've seen Andrae doing stylist work on the Style Network a few times.
It's not Bravo's responsibility to send these people to business school. Most of these people went to design school, which is where they should be learning how to run a fashion design business. If they're not, then the schools need to rework their curriculums. The show was supposed to be a great jumping off point for exposure and contacts for SMART, talented, creative people, not just creative people who pass an audition and say they want it. The winners are given a contract with a management company, a mentorship, and some cash as seed money. They losers get exposure for their work and a degree of fame that would take years to acquire otherwise. Bravo not responsible for giving these people a career. Do the work, make it happen. Emmett did it, Chloe did it, Laura is doing it, Nick is working it like a $2 hooker and I'm sure others are doing it too, or are at least working on trying to make it happen.
As for Heidi, you would think that she would be promoting the HELL out of the show that she is a producer of by wearing the designs of contestants from the show. I don't mean in a Project Jay kind of way, I mean that she should ask them to bring her a selection and choose what she likes. Wearing their designs not only gives them a plug, but also her show gets a plug and it makes her look good for doing it. By her comments, she shows that SHE doesn't even believe in the show or the talent of the contestants. I almost wish that someone WOULD do a rip-off of the show and do it better, with committed producers and a professional production team.
Anyway, great post, boys!
Let's not forget Kara Saun and Kara Janx. They're doing great!
"" Kathy said...
It's not Bravo's responsibility to send these people to business school. Most of these people went to design school, which is where they should be learning how to run a fashion design business. If they're not, then the schools need to rework their curriculums. The show was supposed to be a great jumping off point for exposure and contacts for SMART, talented, creative people, not just creative people who pass an audition and say they want it. "
BRAVA!! WORDS. OUT. OF. MY. MOUTH.
Though I don't agree with the "you're a public figure so you're fair game" argument, and while I have sympathy for people's personal struggles, this whole phenomenon shows exactly what's wrong with our culture and the cult of fame: we reward people for the wrong things (personality, looks, etc., instead of actual talent) and with the wrong things (fame for its own sake), which then encourages people to want the wrong things.
Many of the contestants end up seduced by this little bubble of being on tv and being recognized and hanging out with celebrities, and then the expectation is that that's going to go on forever. The ones who got right back to work may be less visible on television now, but I suspect they don't waste too much time looking around, wondering where the cameras went.
Santino, on the other hand, is experiencing relative success not as a talented designer, but as a "personality." Nick wanted the show to help propel his career as a designer, but now can't seem to decide what's really important to him: being a working designer for the long term or being famous. Jay may have had good reason for turning down the prize money (and I think they should offer it to him again, now that the contractual obligations have changed), but for all his big talent, which deserves support, the pressures he feels and the fact that an investor hasn't appeared aren't really the problem; the problem is that he doesn't seem to be able to figure out what to do now. How about what Andrae finally decided to do: look for a job with an established design house, where he could earn a living, make connections, and learn about the business?).
Sadly, most people don't realize how rare stardom really is, and how little it may have to do with talent or ability. The real reality is that many talented people are successful because they are able to do what they love and earn a living doing it--and fame usually has nothing to do with it.
"Many of the contestants end up seduced by this little bubble of being on tv and being recognized and hanging out with celebrities, and then the expectation is that that's going to go on forever. The ones who got right back to work may be less visible on television now, but I suspect they don't waste too much time looking around, wondering where the cameras went."
Exactly. They don't put on lame shows like "Bad Boys of Runway" that have nothing to do with real fashion.
Thanks for the link!
I can understand Jay's whining (I knew there was something in the contract that prevented him from taking the $$ but not the specifics); however, I think he's pushed that victim card once too often. Didn't he read the agreement he signed before joining the show in the first place?
I wish nothing but success for all of the Bravo contestants, but even with $100K of seed money, you have to be prepared and do your homework! Look at Emmett and Malan. I'd say both of them are 'winners' at this point.
Santino:
“No one wanted to interview Chloe,” Santino says. “I’m sure I did like 500 percent more interviews. That’s what I won.”
"I crack myself up by saying, It’s lucky that I turn things down so that Nick has stuff to do,” says Santino."
Fame with no money is a sad existence.
Heidi's comment, while not very nice, is pretty spot on. Unfortunately it is a cold, cruel world. I applaud Laura for her standing up to Bravo. You have to take a "what have you done for me lately" approach, because that's what others do to you.
I get what people are saying about Bravo not taking everyone by the hand and teaching them the "business" end of fashion -- but I have to say, the winner of PR really should get taken by the hand if they need it. They won a really really tough competition. They are very talented people. I'd buy Jay's stuff any day of the week if it were available to us! And the notion of Jay refusing the money due to the 10% clause, I believe, is completely admirable!!! Weinstein didn't get enough out of Jay by having him on the show? Geez!
And Heidi -- ugh! she's bothering me. She should be promoting those fab desingers from the show. Put her in a Laura dress please -- she'd at least appear classy even though she isn't.
Santino can really be an asshole - I'd never have someone like that design for me. I can just imagine him saying nasty things about me to the next customer in the door. No thanks.
If everyone can be a designer, what is it that makes it so special?
New designers face many obstacles when trying to establish themselves in the fashion industry. 15 minutes of fame isn't enough to turn them into household names.
thanks for the juicy, interesting article!
"Laura Bennett, the elegant matriarch from Season Three, is the only former contestant I could find who bought back some of her work—her husband spent $13,000 on projectrunway.com for seven items from her Bryant Park collection, under the handle “Bad Daddy.”"
i loved this!
Simply giving these designers "fame" and money isn't enough. They need guidance, experience and opportunities. It's a tough industry. Very few become successful.
"Laura:
"When Laura, hugely popular with fans, failed to notify the network she’d signed a contract to host a style show on MSN.com, they called and demanded an explanation. “And I said, ‘So what do you have to offer me?’"
Good for her!! You know she's going to come out with fabulous things. I can't wait!
Fame and success are two different things altogether. Success is to be thought of as a driven individual who is able to generate a comfortable and steady income while still enjoying themselves and their occupation.
Just having a dream and talent isn’t enough. A new fashion designer needs to understand the marketing and cash flow ends of the business to survive.
The problem is that most of designers on show are overrated. Their "talent" isn't enough to reach the heights that the media has set for them, so they crash and burn.
Jay seriously needs to take an etiquette class or something. Leaving that foul voice message to a complete stranger and reporter was so unprofessional.
Heidi keeps saying that at Project Runway, they are looking for the next great American designer.
That will never happen if the producers keep sacrificing talent for high ratings.
I wish the article didn't brush off Chloe so easily. She is one of the most successful contestants from this show, and deserves credit for her win.
I love that mod/colorblock green and white jacket hanging behind Jay in the picture. I would do ANYTHING to buy his stuff!
"After he won the first season of Project Runway, he discovered that the Weinstein Company would forever own a 10 percent stake in his brand—and he didn’t yet even have a brand—if he chose to take their $100,000 prize. He turned it down. The company has since dropped the clause. But the fight left Jay without any money, and it left Bravo with an embittered winner—and one whose orientation wasn’t necessarily all that commercial to begin with. “I think the problem Bravo has,” says Colicchio, “is that they lose credibility when Jay doesn’t do anything."
That explains A LOT!! Still, I wish Jay would watch what comes out his mouth.
I have no sympathy for Jay at all. He turned down the mentorship and the $$. He was quite rude to the contestants on Season 2 when he judged them. He said vicious and spiteful things about the Season 3 designers just before he did his runway show last fall. Didn't he also say that if he was atractive and fit, he'd probably whore around and get HIV or something like that?
Yeah, I have no pity for him at all.
He should be on Season 2 of Mo'Nique's "Charm School" next year to learn a few new things.
"Cedar said...
I wish the article didn't brush off Chloe so easily. She is one of the most successful contestants from this show, and deserves credit for her win."
I agree with you. Chloe is both talented and professional.
To be fair, 100k is barely enough to start a fashion business. It's not an easy industry.
Ugh. Did anyone else feel like the article was enabling Jay and Santino's sense of entitlement?
Andrae comes across as very down to earth and self-aware. Good for him.
I'm sorry, did the interviewer describe Ilan Hall as "appealing"? Good lord. He's one of the most obnoxious twerps ever to ooze his way into a reality show win.
Gorgeous said, "I applaud Laura for her standing up to Bravo. You have to take a "what have you done for me lately" approach. . ."
Have to disagree with you on this. Being on that show changed Laura's life, evidently in a good way, and I'm a little surprised by the implication that they owe her anything.
Anon. said, "Fame and success are two different things altogether. Success is to be thought of as a driven individual who is able to generate a comfortable and steady income while still enjoying themselves and their occupation."
Beautifully put. . . just what I was saying, only you did it much better--short and sweet and right to the point!
"Have to disagree with you on this. Being on that show changed Laura's life, evidently in a good way, and I'm a little surprised by the implication that they owe her anything."
I think it's less about whether Bravo owes Laura something than about whether Laura owes Bravo something. Bravo was annoyed that Laura was working with MSN.com and hadn't told them, and her response was basically, "Well, give me a reason why I should have told you." I think that's the right attitude. She was willing to strike out on her own and felt that Bravo didn't have the right to prevent her from doing that without giving her something in return.
At least, that's my take on it.
One last line of Jay defense:
Yes, maybe design schools should be more business oriented. It is not unusual, however, for "creative" types not to be "business minded." I'm quite sure that especially with respect to Season 1, the assumption of the designers was that a "mentorship" involved more concrete and helpful business advice than "here are some phone numbers."
And frankly, I don't care what the contract says on that topic. With the exception of Kara Saun, who was already successful, I doubt that any of the Season 1 designers could afford to have a lawyer look at that contract. (Moreover, I assure you that in Jay's hometown, there's likely not one lawyer who would be competent to review an agreement like that.)
Again, I do not excuse his attitude. His bitterness is costing him more dearly than Bravo at this point, and were I he, I'd be knocking sweetly on Emmett's door, not crapping all over everyone else.
Nevertheless, to call him a crybaby because he was led to believe he'd get more support than a TV show, a contract that tied him up for life and a largely useless internship is not really fair.
Not surprising: Santino is still an ass. Someone already said that fame without money is sad-- well, I'd say that fame without class is even sadder. Pathetic in fact.
If hanging out with the Hilton sisters is one of the high points of his post-show resume, I'd say that's a pretty sad existence (though maybe he'll end up appearing in Paris' next straight-to-internet video). I still haven't forgotten that turkey costume he made for Sasha Cohen. (If I was a judge, I would have sentenced him to wear it). I think his 'talent' was far over-rated (most of all, by he himself).
There are quite a few big success stories among the contestants on PR: Emmett, Chloe, KaraSaun, Laura, Malan, Kara, Austin, Nick, Daniel F among them. Some people are mistakenly confusing appearing on Page Six with real success.
And there is a common thread among those who are successful after the show: They respect others.
The 'qualities' (if you can call them that), that make the cameras on a reality show follow you, and push you along, are not qualities that translate into real life success. Even the most talented person needs people skills. The person you might find entertaining, in small doses, on a reality show, is not necessarily a person you want to deal with in business or in life.
You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.
Aside from that, the casting process, (with TV's emphasis on looks and personality) I'm sure, eliminates too many talented designers that would be deserving of the spotlight.
And while I do feel a little bit sorry for Jay (only a little bit), the show did get him out of Hicktown, PA. That is a prize in itself.
Contracts are changed all the time.
Jay's explanations, including what is in this article, regarding his turning down the money and mentorship have never made any sense to me.
People who confuse random selection to appear in a reality show with their ticket to success have a lot to learn.
santino's such a dick for talking shit about everybody. i understand some things, but he was such a douche about chloe and the judges. she beat you, get over it. you only got interviewed because you were the biggest prick.
oh and that's great for laura. :)
Jay is a loser. I'm sick of his whining. Stop playing the "victim" card! He's a bitch and a crybaby. What did Miss Diva Jay expect? That suddenly people would just hand him cash and build a business for him overnight because he won a reality show? GET REAL!
His stupidity and naivete is baffling. Instead of fuming and stewing in his bitterness, Jay needs to take some business classes, educate himself and grow up!
I don't feel sorry for him at all. Chloe Dao is doing just fine. She has a deal with Target and QVC. Jeffrey Sebelia is doing well. He's selling to Macy's and other high end boutiques. Both Chloe and Jeffrey have used their opportunity on this show to take their businesses to the next level. They seem to be hustling and working their butts off.
Not to mention non-winners like Emmett McCartney, Malan Bretan and Kara Janx who all have successful businesses.
Jay is the most worthless "winner" from this show. I was disgusted with his personal attacks on Tim Gunn, and now it appears he is venting on Bravo. Kara Saun should have won that season. She is way more professional and productive.
Jay is his own worst enemy. He will fail because he has a loser attitude and a bizarre sense of entitlement. I used to pity tis fool, but his persistent nastiness, finger-pointing and complaining have worn out my patience.
Jay, if you're reading this, get a grip and shut up. You're 30. Not 12. No business investors are ever going to take you seriously if you keep acting like this! It's your own fault. Take some responsibility and do something about it.
"He hangs out with the Hilton sisters, charges at least $5,000 to make appearances at events, and makes couture dresses for $3,000 to $10,000 a pop. His income, he says, has at least quintupled since appearing on the show."
That is the biggest crock of shit I ever heard. I live in LA, and trust me, that ain't happening. He is such a bullshitter!!!
Enjoyed the article...thanks for the link.
It must have been a surreal experience for all of them...and the well grounded contestants are making their way pretty well, it seems..
I really wish Jay would stop with the woe-is-me stuff, though.
Reality shows give you a platform and nothing else. What you do after that is entirely up to YOU.
So, let's see...Emmett has a successful store, Chloe and Jeffrey are both doing well, Karas S & J are fine, Nick is dressing people for the red carpet, Austin is doing wedding dresses, Harold Dieterle opened a restaurant, um, what was this article about again? Failure? Seems to me the only failures are those too emotionally retarded to work for a living. (Sorry Jay, I love you, but get a clue, buddy. Here's a freebie--don't say "fuck" in business meetings.)
I liked Jay on the show, but he is his own worst enemy in real life. Getting the $100,000 with no strings attached wouldn't have changed that. And given his post-PR trajectory, I wonder whether Jay has the emotional maturity to be successfully mentored or to partner with someone more experienced. He doesn't seem to like people telling him what to do.
And Santino seems unchanged post-PR, and that isn't a good thing. His statements about clothes as art are just arrogant. Even established designers don't expect to sell their 'art' to anyone except the rarest of individuals. They do outrageous runway fashion to 'chic' up their names so they can be successful in the parts of the business that can make money: ready to wear and accessories. Women buy clothes that make them look and feel good. If they want art, they'll buy a painting.
Andrae, our little lamb, seems to have figured out the best path for him. I think he's being smart and looking to the future instead of a few more minutes of short-term fame. More contestants need to do the same.
I'm worried about Nick.
And I loved Laura's response. Very savvy. It isn't fair for Bravo to say she can't host another show if they aren't offering her something comparable to do.
I didn't think what Heidi said was overly harsh. It's just the truth. This is a reality show - they are handing people a potential opportunity, not a guaranteed career in fashion. Some people will be able to capitalize on the opportunity in a good way, some will capitalize in a bad way, and some will boot it completely. Just like life.
Heidi is right. What happens to the designers AFTER the show is not Bravo's problem. They're old enough to take care of themselves.
So, let's see...Emmett has a successful store, Chloe and Jeffrey are both doing well, Karas S & J are fine, Nick is dressing people for the red carpet, Austin is doing wedding dresses, Harold Dieterle opened a restaurant,
Just goes to show, you don't have to win to "win." Bravo kind of sets themselves up for this by saying they are looking for America's next "Top xxxx," but then I don't think, "We're looking for fifteen people and will fast forward the careers of the 5 or 6 who are ready," is much of a slogan.
It's not just about talent - Jay is probably the most talented designer they ever had on the show - but more about the choices they make once their career has been given this massive kick-start.
"Santino:
“No one wanted to interview Chloe,” Santino says. “I’m sure I did like 500 percent more interviews. That’s what I won.”
Why can't he say anything NICE, for Gd's sake?!
Here's an interesting interview with Jay:
"TONY: Do you have any idea where you’ll sell it?
JM: Macy’s? Somewhere middle-of-the-road. Coming into this world there’s pressure: “Oh, you’re only going to sell at Barneys to start off with, right?” And I did have that thought. But I got 7,000 e-mails in six months from strangers—“Make sure you make them for short girls, tall girls, fat girls, thin girls, us in Nebraska, Ohio.…” I’m not an exclusive person. I’m not Zac Posen, who secretly gets off on selling $7,200 dresses when he knows they cost $160 to make. I hate Zac Posen."
"TONY: Who do you think will win the new season?
JM: I would love Santino to win. He’s edgy and I’m sick of this one-trick-pony thing that the judges keep telling him. That’s his style. That’s why Calvin Klein makes fucking tunics and why Betsey Johnson makes fucking floral chiffons. Mixing shit up is what he does. He’s arrogant as fuck and people will put him in his place along the way but, once again, he’s covering up for his insecurity. Look at him! He is a gigantic weirdo, six foot five, voice like the devil, looks like Lurch. Would I want to see more of Chloe? Probably not. Would I want to see more of Daniel V.? Probably not."
Enough said.
Few things in this story really shock me, but it is interesting to consider what (if anything) reality contestants are owed, so
Reality TV doesn't change the fact that succeeding in a skill-driven field still depends mostly on, you know, skill; fame tends to come later. Unsurprisingly, the Bravo alums who have done the best so far already had a business before the show: Jeffrey Sebelia, who won the most recent season of "Project Runway," had a boutique established, while Tabatha from "Shear Genius" used the exposure from the show to take in more customers at her existing salon.
Writer Jennifer Senior makes the point that Bravo owes much of its recent success to these shows and their telegenic and talented stars. And it looks like Bravo is starting to recognize that it's a two-way street: Contestants on the shows (except "Project Runway," which Bravo doesn't own) now will be offered a chance to sign with a management company that will help the insta-celebs navigate the wild waters of post-show life.
But what does Bravo — or any network that helps regular people rise to fame — actually owe its contestants once the show is done? Should the network be required to give those stars more assistance? Or should chefs, designers and stylists who appear on reality shows be savvy enough to know what to do when the show's over, even without the network's help? I lean toward the latter; I think anyone who goes on reality TV these days has to know that it doesn't guarantee success. But I suppose I can also understand why ex-contestants feel ignored while the network profits off their work. What's your take?
SANTINO ROCKS!!!!!!
Well, let's not forget Alison. She's doing fine. She recently opened her atelier:
http://designyourowndahl.squarespace.com/
T&L,
Is that picture of Laura on the cover taken from the one you posted of her playing air guitar w/ her kids at some event?
Great article, thanks for posting it!
I am so tired of Jay's perpetual victimhood. He is a victim of no one but himself.
I think Jay is too emotionally immature to ever be a successful designer, which is why he was still in Boondocks, PA selling porn. An investor could come along and give Jay a million dollars and he'll still have an excuse why he doesn't have a successful line.
A lot of these PR personalities think because they were on a show for 3 months (Daniel V) the fashion world should let them in the front of the line, and it doesn't work like that.
The most successful ones are the ones who were about their business on the show and use their 15 minutes to do something for themselves. Even nasty Wendy Pepper used the show to promote her business. She'll never be a great designer but she'll be sewing up some party dresses for those rich Virginia horse country women.
Santino and Jay need to sit down somewhere. Nobody owes them a thing.
@therealgoogle: Yeah, but that's the nature of the beast in fashion. You need financing, and those who finance you get a cut. I would imagine that LVMH takes much more than a 10% cut of all Dior sales.
At the end of the day, McCarroll overestimated his own worth. I can understand his not wanting to be beholden to Banana Republic or whichever the hell company it was, EXCEPT THAT HE WORKS IN FASHION. You can't try to avoid working for the man when the very nature of the job dictates that you are an enabler of conspicuous consumption.
"When Laura, hugely popular with fans, failed to notify the network she’d signed a contract to host a style show on MSN.com, they called and demanded an explanation. “And I said, ‘So what do you have to offer me?’ ” she says. (She’s now in talks with Bravo about doing something for its Website and iVillage.)"
I love the fact that Laura is very outspoken and doesn't take any crap from anybody.
Jay has a mouthy, at times witty, always defiant anti-establishment tone. He trades off on that as if that makes a rebel or a true creative.
He can't handle that people expect things of him and are disappointed when he slacks off.
Project Runway gives young fashion designers the chance of a lifetime to have their collection shown at Bryant Park. Most of them claim to have waited their whole life for a chance like that, so it's really up to them to make the best of it before and after the show.
“I have a fucking gazillion e-mails from all over the world from people asking, Why isn’t your stuff out there?” says Jay. “Yet financially, I have no way to get them a product because I got pushed out of a boat and into the ocean, as if, Oh, you can survive now.”
Welcome to the world of fashion!
"Andrae:
Today, he still sews the odd custom dress for $1,500, and he teaches too, but he makes a fair chunk of his money doing gigs that exploit his reality-show fame, like hosting events at gay bars in Pittsburgh. He knows this won’t last. “I tell everyone I’m not a star,” he says. “I’m a brown dwarf.”
Good for him! At least he knows how to take advantage of the situation, which is a hell lot more than most of the designers have done with their sudden fame.
Laura is probably one of the few that recognizes this is a business. Good for her for not sitting around waiting for Bravo to throw her a bone.
I don't hold Bravo with as much esteem as many of your readers.
It is just entertainment to me. I don't realistically expect any contestant of Bravo to become a Top World Designer or Chef. Bravo promotes Bravo, glad bags, bicardi limon, elle magazine, Michael Kors and whomever they are bed with this week. The real winners of these shows are the judges, Tim Gunn and whatever property Bravo has some interest in.
I am sure a contestant could parlay it into a better job in the fashion industry than they had when they started. If they were able to contain themselves and adapt to Bravo prison life.
Watching the creative process on speed with ridiculous contraints is pretty amusing. The contestants have come through it all with some amazing results. Great fun to watch.
How cute! The cover photo of Laura is one of her playing air guitar.
-- desertwind
Um, Jay? Could it have been that you alienated everyone who congratulated you and anticipated your shows? Returning compliments with saying something so queeny and bitchy, cause you had to keep that reputation up from the show rather than the talent portion.
The wrath of Gunn.
Jay has had nothing but nasty things to say about everyone, including the PR designers (Season 3 reunion) and the people in the industry (Calvin Klein, Zac Posen, Tim Gunn, just to name a few). Remember the episode where Fern Mallis emphasizes to them that it's important to be nice to people in the fashion industry? His mouth is his own worst enemy.
Awesome interview--although I did find it telling that they really couldn't get quotes from the really successful alums--Chloe, Kara Janx, Emmett, Kara Saun, Austin etc. It seems that if you do apply business sense, work hard, and make good relationships, you can come out a winner. And why so little Tim Gunn quotes? It's not like Tim is press-shy. Very weird.
WORD to whomever noted that they called Ilan Hall appealing--S2 of Top Chef *totally* turned me off of Bravo--the only thing I will watch is PR. A fiasco from the start and Magical Elves lost a lot of credibility on that front.
I was stunned to read that Weinstein Co would have had a 10% stake in EVERYTHING Jay did--I can appreciate him turning down the $$, but not the ongoing bitch fest. He and Santino should hook up--like matter and anti-matter, they'll just explode and we'll be done with the lot.
Also, the crazy girl in S2 (geez, I'm blanking on names now)--Lupe! Noted that her boyfriend bought her outfit from the "Clothes off your Back" challenge.
All in all, very interesting. I do wish they had also followed a bit on the models--it's always neat to hear about them (so thanks for the updates, guys!).
Could we notice, though, that Laura's successes so far are not so much in the world of design as in the world of media? That's fine. She gets to make that choice, and she's always fabulous. But let's notice that PR is a tv show that sets you for a career as a minor celebrity--not for a career in design--anymore than The Apprentice sets you up for a career in business. If you want to be a designer or a cook or a business person, you design, you cook, or you get a job. You don't go on a tv show.
“This show is an opportunity. But guidance? You do that with children. As an adult, you have to find your own way in this world.”
That's fresh coming from a model. Models are scouted in clubs, bars and malls, put on a plane, and quickly landing on magazine covers and runways. I would hardly consider that finding your own way in this world.
I think it's funny that people think Jay should stop bitching. Jay didn't go to New York magazine, they came to him. He is simply stating the same thing he's always stated because they asked him about his experience with the show. How would you feel if someone came to you and said I'm gonna take 10% of everything you ever make forever in the fashion business.
And for those who think he should be more grateful to PR please people get a grip. PR is a business and wouldn't be on the air if it wasn't making money. And they are making money on his face, his personality, and his talent. All of which he isn't being paid for while they make money on every DVD they sell.
Maybe Jay should be more grateful...but maybe Heidi and Tim shouldn't be so surprised that former contestants aren't speaking highly of the show. They certainly aren't speaking highly of the former contestants.
I used to like Santino...but why you are still angry that you didn't win??? it's been the past, get over it.
god, that sucks.
chloe got success and INTERVIEWS, dude!
it's just a show, after the show you still need to work on your own business and...ohmy, santino makes me sick now
"Santino:
“No one wanted to interview Chloe,” Santino says. “I’m sure I did like 500 percent more interviews. That’s what I won.”
Why can't he say anything NICE, for Gd's sake?!
7:33 PM
Because Santino is full of himself, and full of shit as well.
He has an ego the size of the ozone hole over the Antarctic!
Santino, honey, baby, you are NOT all that and a bag of chips....capisce?
Okay Tom and Lorenzo--
Now that this has been thoroughly chewed over--what have you heard and what do you think?
From the article: "But the fight left Jay without any money, and it left Bravo with an embittered winner—and one whose orientation wasn’t necessarily all that commercial to begin with."
Totally disagree with the writer on this assertion! I think, out of the 3 PR winners so far, Jay's was by far the most commercial. It screamed youthful, sportwear and off-the-rack. Chloe's was higher end, borderline couture (N.B. - not haute couture, just couture). Jeffrey's was detail-intensive and very, very boutiquey, IMO.
An article that presented both sides of the story would have been fairer. Some of the designers are doing quite well, including the winners of S2 and S3.
(whoops - bad typos in last post attempt!)
agree w/ Brilliant and others ... not a fan of the Klum here either, but the contestants are adults, what they make of the show and winning or not winning is up to them. Direction to a course/internship in business management would have been nice, but certainly not necessary.
The clauses for the 1st season prizes however were more than anyone should have to deal with; I certainly don't blame Jay for turning them down.
And more kudos to Laura for having the cojones to not roll over!
I don't think Bravo was portrayed in a bad light in the article however, they're just another channel feeling their way into a relatively new market. The fact that they do make ammendments as needed as quickly as they do is laudable.
I disagree with those who've referred to Jay as a 'loser'. I think he is extremely talented as a designer. He is just lacking in the people skills required to run a business.
I also don't blame him for turning down the 100K based on the contract. I would have as well, despite how HARD it had to be. I don't think it can be overstated the amount of guts it takes for someone who is desperate for the money to turn it down. 100K is a lot (those who say it's not are thinking of abstract, play money, not real money sitting in front of you). It takes real guts to turn it down. I'd be a bit bitter if I had to as well. I don't fault him for that. But he just needs to realize that he has become his own worst enemy.
These predatory contacts are a problem with some reality shows. I know performers who wanted to audition for 'America's Got Talent'. Ever wonder why no one on that show actually has any talent? The release they require you to sign, to even submit a tape, gives them ownership of EVERYTHING you submit, including your own intellectual property. Only idiots and amateurs will audition based on those terms.
Some of the ex-reality 'stars' actually sound a lot like ex-child stars. The whole 'I entertained America, I'm entitled to more than this...' attitude from people who got used to that spotlight, and then cannot deal with life after it fades, is very similar.
If you have ever been in a situation where you are a star, or treated like one, for however long, and for whatever reason, you know that it is a big letdown when it is over. No one wants that to stop. But it seems like those who believed the bull; believed all the
people who really only wanted to bask in your orbit while you were famous for a minute, have the toughest time. What they believed in; the fantasy that fame will solve your problems, or tv will validate you, wasn't real, and they learned that lesson too late.
It is those who understand all that going in, who can benefit the most from the experience.
--Gotham Tomato
Gotham, I agree totally with what you're saying. Problem is, mature individuals don't make for "good tv." Look what Harold had to do to get cast.
I don't think Bravo has so much clout that they can force the fashion industry, or any of the others, to take on a badboy like Jay. They can only do so much to promote their winner. American Idol is produced by a record producer, who has a vested interest and the ability to promote the winner after the show.
Gotham,
Jay made a business decision not to accept the $100K because of the constraints. That's fine, but it's a decision he chose to make. Bitching and whining about it now because he can't find any investors or funding is silly. Everyone else from this show who has wanted to do something in fashion is doing it. Even if Andrae is still waiting tables and making $1500 dresses on the side, he's still doing something. Jay has put out, what? One collection in the two years since he won? Even Bradley Squid in the Ocean has put out a collection. There's a reason why Jay was selling porn and old clothing in Backwoods PA and it's the same reason why he can't find any investors or assistance today: he's too immature and unprofessional to invest in. He has absolutely no drive and is more interested in making snarky comments and being a "personality" rather than building a fashion business. Who wants to invest in that?
Agnes gooch:
I totally agree with you--I think Jay had a lot of commercial potential--who else are we still pining for clothes from 3 years later? I think that's part of the issue--we keep asking Jay for clothes because we all wanted them! And years later it's the same. As much as I don't like listening to his bitching in the press, also can't help but be one of those people who is still whining for Jay clothes because I liked them so much. What I can't understand now is how other people (not the winners) have managed to pull themselves together to get boutiques/lines going (karajanx, emmett, kayne), and yet Jay still can't get backers? That's where I really begin to wonder--is it truly due just to the difficulties in fashion, or is there more to Jay's temperament than he is willing to admit?
" macasism said...
Gotham, I agree totally with what you're saying. Problem is, mature individuals don't make for "good tv." Look what Harold had to do to get cast."
I have no idea who Harold is, but as for the rest-- I think that depends on what your definition of 'good tv' is.
I think season 3 of PR was mostly crap precisely because of all the nastiness. Having one Santino or one Wendy is one thing - but having a cast overflowing with them turned a good show about creativity into Lord of the Flies.
In S3, I liked Laura & Michael, Malan and Angela. The rest I couldn't give a toss about. And I absolutely LOATHED Jeffrey - and still maintain that he NEVER should have won simply because he exhibited reprehensible misogynist behavior that would have gotten him fired from any job around (though might I say, I do so appreciate THIS blog, being a place where intelligent fans can have a discussion and aren't forced to drink the Jeffrey Kool-aid to participate - unlike some others!). But even though he was the worst of the bunch, there wasn't much to like among the others either; crazy Vince, the passive/agressive pretty girl (can't think of her name), the guy who got expelled, etc. Could not stand them.
Who wants to watch people arguing? I don't. I have a life. There is enough stress in real life, I don't want to tune into a show where obnoxious jerks are arguing and harassing other contestants. What I wanted to watch was the show that showed talented people using their wits & abilities to succeed - not a show where ruthless misanthropes play mind games to get face time on camera.
IMO, Bravo took a good show, and ruined it by going for the lowest common denominator in the tv audience; those are the people who want to watch arguing, nascar, wrestling, brainless sitcoms, etc. They took the easiest, basest way out and ruined a good show.
Now Season 2 - there were a lot of designers to like & root for. Most all of them in fact. And Santino was an ass, but he was funny at least, mainly because of his Tim imitation. But I was glad I wasn't trapped in a workroom with him!
I agree too, that Bravo doesn't (as you said) have the clout to force the industry to accept Jay, nor do I think they should try to force anyone on anyone.
But I CAN see where some of Jay's frustration is coming from. As an artist living in Manhattan myself, I understand the spacial frustrations, etc (& I moved here years ago, so was lucky to get on the property ladder before things went totally crazy. I don't know what I'd do if I was trying to start out here now). But, again, he seems to be his own worst enemy, as talented as he is. He's a little like the Tonya Harding of PR S1: A most talented creative with a self-destructive streak so severe that everyone forgets about his accomplishments.
But I also think that his runway show was the best of all 3 seasons. So I'm hoping he can get it together.
--Gotham Tomato
Wow, I'm talking a lot today, aren't I?
Gotta get some work done...
--Gotham Tomato
Whatever happened to Jay's line at Urban Outfitters?
I didn't think the article was all that well reseached and very opinionated.
It would have been funny if she had included Santino's pre-Runway income, since he claims it increased 4 fold after appearing on PR. I really don't believe anyone in star jaded LA reacts to a reality star of several seasons ago like it said in the article.
I would have prefered to read about Chloe, Kara Janx, Kara Saun, and Mc2 and more on Laura Bennett and of course Raymondo (Mi Hijo) Baltazar. I wonder if Young Balls is still in buisness?
I'll try to get around to reading the article but, until then, thanks for providing us with the best bits!
Maybe Heidi should be required to comply with a full discosure clause: you're either in or you're out....or you're condemned to a life somewhere in between. Could the struggles of the PR winners (and non-winners) be one reason fewer designer wannabes are turning out for the PR auditions? It might be in Bravo's best interests include some business help as part of the top prize - X number of hours with a business professional who could develop a workable business plan, with occasional meetings to fine-tune and adapt.
One question each contestant should have to consider very carefully: do you want to be an artist or do you want to be commercially successful? The stuff that's available in stores was done by those who chose the second option. (Come on, Tommy H, how much talent does it take to "design" a pair of khakis and a polo shirt?)
Some of the saner contestants have landed on their feet, probably because they knew which way was up and which way was down long before the show aired. Too many of them, though - Jay in particular - are like child actors who are cut loose in adulthood and discover that they have no sense of identity when the camera isn't on them. Even winners can be losers.
Why can't Jay make it work? Maybe he needs to call Emmett or Chloe for some advice.
"His income, he says, has at least quintupled since appearing on the show."
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
No wonder Jay's struggling - Weinstein Company would forever own a 10 percent stake in his brand? That is ridiculous! Of course he turned it down. I doubt that anyone with a brain would accept that.
OK, I have no idea what all of the details really are, but it seems to me that Jay made a serious tactical error in turning down the prize $$.
In the real world, he'd be paying out percentages for PR, sales reps, an agent, etc.. Anyway...10% may seem like a lot, but in the greater scheme of things it isn't. It's probably a hell of alot better than most recording contracts.
Jay didn't have to buy air time, shell out $$ for production costs or any of that stuff...Weinstein bankrolled that for him: if they hadn't, we'd have never have heard of him.
And lets not forget that contracts can be, and are, re-negotiated quite frequently...
All that aside, he apparently would benefit from learning more about the business side of the equation and to be a little less catty...as others have already pointed out, he is his own worst enemy.
I have no sympathy for any “victim’ of reality TV. Regardless of what the aim/purpose of the show is, the contestants should know by now that the moguls will always turn things to gain benefit for the TV station/show not the so-called victims.
I just wanna say....how can you talk shit about Chloe? I mean, the woman wouldn't hurt a fly.
JENNIFER IS A HATER! I LOVE YOU JAY!!!
I've read the article in full, and I can't say I'm surprised. It is unrealistic to expect a single Reality Show win (or 2nd or 3rd place) to translate into a viable clothing label. The best that could happen is being hired by a prestigious established label that would give any of them both the time and guidance needed to come up with a personal label (in 2 to 3 years' time, probably).
I do think it's harsh that Bravo casts them out into the big bad world as mini-celebrities almost certain to fail or be humiliated... or both. And I disagree with Ms Klum's comment that these are not children. In Fashion World terms, they practically are. They do need help and guidance. And attaching a 10% price to one 100,000 dollars prize forever was beyond tacky!
Over on Fox, Hell's Kitchen seems the more responsible RS. From everything we heard, season 2 winner Heather had to pay her dues in Vegas (ie listen and learn) before she was given full control of her prize, a high-flying restaurant). People presented it as a rebuff, but I think it was the responsible thing to do. Chef Ramsay (in many ways a p****) also offered to pay Season 3 contestant Julia's 'culinary art school' expenses to help her get out of her Waffle House job. That's responsible. That's giving people a real chance.
In the end, more experienced people like Laura Bennett are bound to get more out of the RS experience than youngsters who only see the glamour of being on TV.
And by the way, the New York Times article got my goat with its 'appealing TOP CHEF Season 2 winner Ilan Hall' - how was that manipulative liar 'appealing' ? And I'll bet his girlfriend was upset by the venom and underhandedness he displayed on TV, and that's why she left him. As for Marcel Vigneron being 'a worm', pfft! The guy seemed gracious, talented and very creative. He just had the bad luck to be paired with the cooks from hell, IMO. From Marisa's very underhanded way of dealing with Otto's lapse to Elia's spineless backing up of anyone with a grudge, going on to that witch Betty's fishwife rantings interspersed with her staged, primped Madonna words of advice to the public, and ending with vile physical threats from Frank, Sam and Cliff, plus mean-spirited taunts and calumnies (in front of the judges, no less!) from Ilan, this TOP CHEF was the season from hell, and I'm not even sure I'll watch TOP CHEF 3 when it airs in Canada.
I've said it before: Stephen Asprinio from TOP CHEF 1 was 10 times more annoying than Marcel Vigneron, and he was treated 100 times better by his fellow contestants. Why? Because they had something Ilan, Betty and Co. lacked: class.
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