Now that Shear Genius is done, we wanted to get back to the kinds of posts we envisioned for this blog when we first started out: bitchy, judgmental screeds about whatever pops into our heads. We're a couple weeks late on this topic, but that's fine by us. We never did like being on the bandwagon at the same time as everyone else. What topic are we referring to? Rosie.
Here's the thing: we don't get why she engenders such rage in people. Actually, we'll amend that: we get why; we just don't like what it says about our culture.
Look, she's no saint and as spokespeople for causes go, she often does more harm than good. There never seems to be anyone willing to support her. Everyone has an opinion about her and no one seems to have a good one, not even the people who are ostensibly on the same side of whatever issue she's mouthing off about.
But we like Rosie. Not enough to fantasize about being BFFs, because even we have to admit, she's a handful and she doesn't exactly come off as stable most of the time. No, she's not someone we'd enjoy being stuck with in an elevator, but that's not the point.
The point (well, one of them) is, in an age of increasingly packaged, plastic celebrities, she is blessedly, refreshingly real. She says whatever pops into her head and she says what she really thinks, consequences be damned. That means of course, that she's going to say some really stupid and offensive things every now and then, like the infamous "ching-chong." The crime is not that she says offensive or inflammatory things; the crime (if you can call it that) is that she stubbornly digs in her heels and refuses to back down from them, even when it's clear that she inadvertantly offended some group of people. Any one of us have had thoughts that, if we expressed them to millions of people, would naturally offend some of them.
But even that's not our main point. As trite as it sounds, if she were a man, not only would her behavior not be controversial, it would almost certainly be lauded and virtually no one would respond to "his" points by pointing out how unattractive or fat "he" is. THAT's the point. And that bothers the shit out of us. It is the 21st fucking century, people, and we should be far, FAR beyond the point where women are held to different rhetorical standards than men.
To be honest, we admire her just for getting out of bed some mornings. We can't imagine what it must be like to constantly have the press and the public calling for your head or making nasty comments about your appearance simply because you had the nerve to have an opinion and the courage to express it. Don't get us wrong, we're not trying to pass off a "poor little Rosie" argument here. As with so many multi-millionaire celebrities, our sympathy has its limits because she can always cry herself to sleep on her bags of money, secure in the knowledge that no matter what, she can always get her name in the papers and get people talking about her.
But as we said, we like Rosie for being totally who she is in a time and place where who she is - an overweight, non-heterosexual woman - is still considered fair game for open ridicule. As much as she sticks her foot in her mouth and says things that make us cringe, we'll take her over so-desperate-to-be-loved-it's-nauseating Ellen any day of the week.
Ro, you keep mouthing off. We may not always like what you say or how you say it, but the fact that you say it at all is a testament to your bravery and your convictions.
Well SOMEONE has to defend her.
Reviewed by TLo
on
Wednesday, June 06, 2007
Rating: 5
83 comments:
You guys are right on the money! I've never had a problem with Rosie---well, aside from the whole Tom Cruise thing---but now that she's made her millions she seems more and more willing to be herself, "warts and all". Indeed, she apparently can't help it! And on television that is incredibly refreshing.
And yes, everybody, I just sit around all day waiting for new posts from the GayBoys. Is it wrong???
Right on, Boys! This makes the fizzling end that was the Shear Genius finale worthwhile. So glad to hear somebody express this in an eloquent way.
I'm w/ ya! Thom too!
At least Rosie's rants aren't malicious like Imus'. I've had my doubts about Ro, but looking @ her video blog and the pain etched on her face as she discussed the row w/ Brown Shirt Hasselbeck (though I'm a little unsure now that Ro was quoted as saying it was a publicity stunt) gave me the impression that she's sincere. A very rare commodity in the biz.
Rosie makes people look at issues. And she is the only person I can think of in all of pop/political culture right now who is saying human beings are all equal. American=Iraqi=African
Do I think if we all hold hands, the world's problems will go away? No. But somewhere between Rosie and Bush is where this country needs to be.
And I daresay a little closer to the Rosie side.
I could name a number of "warts and all" men in the sports world who are treated by the media and the general public exactly the way you feel she is treated. So I don't buy that part of your argument.
I don't care for her at all but I also don't get all the fuss around her. I just don't get too worked up about people in the entertainment industry.
Rah rah! I couldn't agree more!
Dean, I have to disagree with you. Rosie doesn't make people look at the issues - she forces people to look at HER issues, and God help you if you don't agree with her. Politically Rosie and I are on the same side on all matters - but I wouldn't want her backing me up in a debate. Her manners and hostility are a liability in an intelligent discussion because another view is rarely permitted. By definition that can't be an intelligent dicussion.
Thank you, thank you! I think Rosie is usually right on with her comments and others protest too much. I'd like to see some of those that attack Rosie's comments via her appearance withstand attacks on their bald heads and pot bellies. It's sad that we are not past that.
The fact that Ro is overweight or gay has no bearing on my feelings for her. She seems unable to see any point of view other than her own and won't even entertain the idea that there might be another point of view than hers. I stopped paying attention to her a long time ago.
Rosie.....rosie .....rosie. I think you either love her or you hate her. Despite the fact that I have heard one horror story after another about what a bitchy diva she is behind the scenes, I still have to say that I love what an advocate for children she is....one of these days we are going to go on one of her cruises.
You know, I think I'm the rare fence straddler when it comes to Rosie. On one hand, she's making her case about issues that affect her and the millions of other women and mothers and lesbians in the country. And she certainly does have the knack for hitting the nail on the head: you know your argument has succeeded when the only thing your opponent can do is call you a fatty bobatty. She’s intelligent and passionate, and—whether you like it or not—she is NOT going away.
On the other hand, she’s like the lesbian Al Sharpton: always trying to rep folks, even if they don’t need her help. A hilarious example is when she called Kelly Ripa a homophobe for getting all huffy about Clay Aiken’s hand on her mouth. (Because we all know Clay LOVES the ladies, right…?) Her passion to defend sometimes goes too far, and she ends up in fights that aren’t even hers.
She can be grating. Her behavior can be silly and annoying (crush on the meglomaniac Cruise? Puh - leaze).
But when she put Charleton Heston in the hot seat, I adored her. Still do. I respect that she holds fast to what she believes in, because she often voices what people think but are too afraid to say. And yes, there is a double standard at play.
Well, if we're really choosing our favorite lesbian talk show host, I so prefer Ellen to Rosie. Though Ellen may be desperate to be loved, Rosie is just as desperate for attention. As anonymous 2:32 said, she doesn't force people to look at issues so much as she forces them to look at HER issues. And, yes, some of the things said about her are mean and unnecessary -- especially those about her appearance -- but she clearly wants to be in the spotlight, and with that comes criticism, both fair and unfair.
I have loved Rosie for years - used to tape her tv show on a daily basis so that I wouldn't miss a thing. So, when I heard that she was going to be on The View, I started taping that on a daily basis.
I agree that she is generous with her money and has a heart as big as all get out - but she was the wrong person to be on a panel. As has already been stated, she did not give people a chance to disagree with her. She constantly talked over the other panelists, and would make dismissive comments to them.
I also think that she has gone waaaaay overboard looking for conspiracies in places where I personally do not think there are any. She made a comment on The View about our government being responsible for one of the towers coming down on 9/11. Huh?
I will continue to admire her good works, but have little regard for her opinions.
i saw ROD last night on kathy griffin's show. and while overall i like her, i did get the feeling that at least one of her wheels was wobbling.
btw, off subject, was that bill and ed commenting after kathy griffin's carnegie hall show?
k.
Rosie is like that crappy-tasting medicine that you take anyway because you know it'll be good for you. I think she is self-centered and has a desparate need for attention; however, I do agree that it's good to have someone stir the pot and force people to look at other sides of the issues. The media is so perfect-pretty and unwilling to feature unpopular opinions that Rosie is a good thing right now.
I'm not sure we have different standards for women than for men. I think people are just saying what they think is going to be most hurtful.
For a woman, they might assume that her weight and appearance are going to be sensitive issues. For a man, someone might make a comment about physical strength or their masculinity.
Maybe that is a different standard of sorts. I think this issue you rasied (what someone says in anger to jab at someone) is less of whether someone meets our expectations and more about how to effectively hurt someone.
Clarification!
When I say "I'm not sure we have different standards for women than for men. I think people are just saying what they think is going to be most hurtful" I'm referring only to how we choose to say something hurtful.
I fully agree we have (many and various) different standards for women and men.
"As trite as it sounds, if she were a man, not only would her behavior not be controversial, it would almost certainly be lauded and virtually no one would respond to "his" points by pointing out how unattractive or fat "he" is."
Oh hell, if she were a man, she'd be a regular on the Fox News Channel, Larry King Live and Meet the Press.
Loved her stand-up and early movie appearances. Liked her show the handful of times that I saw it. Always loved that she's such a big Broadway supporter and cheerleader.
Got a litle worried when she got very outspoken. But saw that she took a lot of heat that male celebs didn't. Same thing happened to Martha. If a woman is tough, driven, serious or has an opinion, she's a bitch. If a man acts the same way, he's just considered tough, driven, serious or opinionated. Horrible double standard.
Have followed her blog for some time now at www.rosie.com I don't always agree with her (but often do) but find her refreshing and as real as a celeb can be. I love what she does for kids and that she puts a lot of her money to good use. And her children are adorable and seem happy & loved.
I also love that she puts video of herself sans makeup on the blog and talks about her life, warts and all. She is way out there in a way that almost no other celeb is and I have a great appreciation for that. She doesn't always have the most reasoned and logical arguments, but she is passionate and committed and I have respect for that.
Ed & I were at Feinstein's (the nightclub at the Loews Regency) 3 years ago for my birthday. She came over to wish me a happy birthday and pose for a picture. We have run into her a few times since then and she always remembers us.
Go Ro!
k. said - btw, off subject, was that bill and ed commenting after kathy griffin's carnegie hall show?
We didn't see Kathy's show last night so I'm not sure what you're referencing. But we didn't see her at Carnegie Hall so it wasn't us. I hope they were cute whoever they were! We will be seeing Kathy in three weeks in New Brunswick, NJ and can't wait. She destroys us.
I want to speak up in support of Rosie too. I like her, and I WOULD be her BFF! Politically, I'm usually on Elizabeth Hasselbeck's side, but I could have political debate with her, laugh it off, do some crafts, then go see a Broadway show. There are more important things in friendships.
I love that she is an outspoken woman, and I will probably enjoy "The View" a lot less without her. I hate what it says about our culture that she engenders such hate, and a lot of it is because she is a woman. The masses don't so much openly critize men for being a BIT overweight (Rosie is not superobese), or for having "strident" voices (Hilary Clinton). Like Bill just said in the above comment, it's a horrible double-standard.
And yes, she can cry herself to sleep on her bags of money WITH her hot wife and adorable children, so it's not a huge pity party, just a small pity pow-wow.
bill, they were cute as pie, but it went by quickly. i just know you two from your celeb shots, so maybe it was the power of suggestion.
"Oh hell, if she were a man, she'd be a regular on the Fox News Channel, Larry King Live and Meet the Press."
LOL,i totally agree with that gorgeousthings!
Sort of off topic, but years and years ago, when she was still a struggling comic, Rosie was the voice-over host for some cable channel movie night. She would say things like "You're watching (whatever movie was) and I'm your host, Betty Rubble," or some other random name. And of course, years later she WAS Betty Rubble. That must have been a weird, full-circle moment for her. Then, of course, she had a lot of those on her show. Good for her!
I never could tolerate The View, however. One time I was forced to watch it while having dental surgery. The nitrous did not help at all!
I think she will be fine without a defense. She seems to have a sense of herself and a big heart. I like that she 'mouths' off, shakes it up and is slightly out of control. She also has a sense of humor about herself. How can she lose?
Seeing Kathy Griffin in August at the Hard Rock here in Florida! LOVE HER!!!!
Hey Bill, love the new photo!
I got to see kd lang in New Brunswick back in the days when she would tease the audience by "coming out" as a big LLLLLL.....awrenece Welk fan. It went right over the heads of the guys in the audience and made the rest of us swoon.
Sigh...she and I had meaningful eye contact that night.
Oh, and on Rosie? I couldn't stand the View before her and never watched it with her.
Re jibes against men vs against women: years ago there was a great bumper sticker about Rush Limbaugh -- long before his drug stuff was revealed: "Rush is Right...Fat." (If you don't get it, try saying it out loud with a southern accent.) It was funny and punny but not hurtful in the same way that it would have been had it been directed at a woman. I guess I'm agreeing with BG that we have different ways to discredit the genders. With women, it's often appearance and weight. With men, it's virility.
I like her, actually. It used to bother me that she showed herself to have the IQ of a potato when talking about politics and her theories, but I figure that she's only hurting herself in that respect. Entertainment wise, she's a joy. As long as she's not talking politics. (PS.. I'm no conservative... but when people say things like she says, it gives lefties like me a bad name. )
I've been staying away from Rosie ever since her "ching chong" remark, because as an Asian American writer and scholar, I know from experience exactly what that kind of remark implies (a history of violence and exile, to be brief). Then I had the opportunity to see a poet by the name of Beau Sia (who can be found on youtube and myspace, and his own personal website) perform in a class his open letter regarding Rosie's remark. I'm also of the opinion that "Rosie doesn't make people look at the issues - she forces people to look at HER issues," and most of the time that does mean that she is going to offend someone, but then again, I'm sure I do the same thing on a smaller scale. I don't hold the incident against her, for she does often have to apologize, and I often agree with her politically, but someone who is willing to risk her cause at the expense of often acting offensively won't earn my complete respect.
I was enjoying the blog until you started bad-mouthing Ellen Degeneres! Points off.
You've hit on something that is both conflicted and complicated. In general I support Rosie. I think the physical attacks on her remind me of the Howard Stern school of discussing all non hot women like their are 'pigs'. It's cliche and offensive.
But if you go deeper, Rosie's issues are three fold. One is that she is not politically correct on all things. She is too erratic, so pop culture mentality just can't get around her as she is all over the place.
The second is that her political point of view does not stick. Before she was out she was an ardent, and I need to stress ardent, political conservatist. 10 years ago, people like Tom Snyder would regularly call her for her tough on crime talk. She sounded like a Reagan Republican.
And lastly her, her rhetoric is unfiltered so she sounds...crazy! I remember when she folded her magazine she was so upset that while on vacation her staff used her office for a meeting. She said, 'THEY USED MY OFFICE FOR A MEETING" and looked at the camera as if they had butchered her father. And all I could think of was how many people were going to be fired, what the cost was going to be to shutdown and that she killled the former McCall's magazine (I mourn the loss of McCall's paperdolls). Of course she had other reasons to shut it down, but you never heard it from her.
I'm sorry boys but there is a HUGE difference between expressing an opinion and being a bully. That's where mainstream America (and myself) take issue with Rosie. Nobody is going to take you seriously or your convictions if you try to ram them down people's throats. Nobody wants to be told how to think no matter what side of the issue you may be on. There are gracious and intelligent ways to make a point. Perhaps since Rosie has time off now she could take a few manner and charm classes. Tacklessness and crass are never the way if you want to be respected. Unfortunately in this country we have fallen into that mentality that if you just shout the your opinion the loudest, you'll win.
I can only hope The View will just die away since it hasn't been worth watching after the first week it appeared. It's annoying to women like me who are educated and use thier brains on a daily basis to watch five hens sit around the table clucking. Thank god for the channel changer!
Sure, it made for good TV controversy, but let's be realistic. Rosie is loud, hypocritical, abrasive, totally devoid of class, obviously not very intelligent (she makes Elisabeth look like a rocket scientist by comparison) and just plain annoying. Who cares what she says when she's determined to undermine her credibility with ridiculous hysterical outbursts? She's intolerant, dismissive and condescending to those with other views, indeed often to those with the same views, and is incapable of rational discourse. Her obsession with scatterbrained, disproved conspiracy theories, especially about 9/11 in particular, border on psychosis. Rosie sees the world through Rosie colored glasses, unfortunately those glasses filter out reality. She clearly needs mental health intervention.
"She seems unable to see any point of view other than her own and won't even entertain the idea that there might be another point of view than hers."
Jana, I totally agree with this statement. I always get the feeling that, when cornered by an opposing opinion, Rosie will pull the "You hate me because I'm gay/overweight/female" card. Unfortunately, I think this is the trend for the majority of the population at this time. Mature adults are allowed to have differences of opinions, no need for every discussion to end in hater talk. Have your say, agree to disagree, and move on! OK, I'm getting off the soap box now. BTW, everyone who is going to see Kathy Griffin...Hate You! She will NEVER make an appearance way down here in south Texas!!
"I can only hope The View will just die away since it hasn't been worth watching after the first week it appeared. It's annoying to women like me who are educated and use thier brains on a daily basis to watch five hens sit around the table clucking. Thank god for the channel changer!"
Anonymous 7:36 -- as an educated woman who uses her brain on a daily basis -- THANK YOU!
Whoever said Rosie was a bully hit it on the head. Nobody wanted to be the bully's friend in second grade, and it's no more attractive when the bully is over 40. Not that I'm not happy to have a lefty lesbian with a national platform, but it would help if she were more often coherent and less often running off at the mouth senselessly.
I can't stand her. Yep, that's right. I don't find her opinions refreshing because they're not thought out at all. She expects accountability from everyone but herself and it's a double standard I can't abide by. If anyone else made the ching chong comment, she would be all over them like ants at a picnic. Yes, she's entertaining and can be very funny and personable. I always enjoyed her talk show whenever I had a chance to watch it. However, her comic talent is overshadowed by her ignorant statements and false accusations. She doesn't present issues, she forces her opinion on her audience and becomes a bully when anyone disagrees with her. While I fully support her right to free speech, I disagree with her closed mindedness and inability to "agree to disagree" with anyone who challenges her or tries to hold her accountable for her comments. I do find it offensive when people attack her weight and sexuality because they disagree with her. That's totally uncalled for. Stick to the issues.
I believe it was Benjamin Franklin who once said, "It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt."
I understand where the GayBoys are coming from. There are men who are just as aggressive as Rosie (e.g., Donald Trump); they're loud and opinionated and people usually tolerate that because that's what (some) successful men have to do to make it in a dog eat dog world. But when a woman does the same thing, she's treated like some freak of nature. Sadly, I've heard terrible comments about Rosie's weight, as well as other aspects of her personality. I think that's uncalled for.
Also, I've heard some people complain that Rosie forces her opinions on others. Well, the name of the program is The View. I assume the produces expected Rosie to "force" her views on the audience. That’s the whole point of the show!
I'm not a Rosie "The Social Warrior" fan. I think she's too pushy, creates issues that aren't there, and is reactionary. But I admire the fact that she will go to the mat for her beliefs. I just wish she'd remember that there are two sides to everything.
The price of freedom for all means dealing with things you don't like. Why? Because we're all free. Not just a section of society...but ALL of us. I respect her right to say what she wants. Ro is passionate and she knows the issues. BUT she has to remember that other people have opinions and feelings. At the end of the day all people want is to be heard...not verbally pummeled into a commercial break.
Like the old cliche goes...got to give respect to receive it!
- Lily
Oh hell, if she were a man, she'd be a regular on the Fox News Channel, Larry King Live and Meet the Press.
I agree with that 100%. Yes, Rosie comes off as arrogant, pushy, occasionally obnoxious, and sometimes downright crazy. But there are plenty of wingnuts who spout dumber, less informed, and more offensive dreck than Rosie on major TV and radio shows, and I don't see them getting nearly the amount of personal abuse thrown at them that Rosie gets. Politically conservative heterosexual men don't attract nearly as much hatred and ridicule when they shove their opinions down others' throats. When such folks are criticized, it is much less likely to take the form of irrelevant and offensive personal attacks. The double standard, it is alive and well.
Yeah, let people like Elizabeth Hasselbeck grace us with her politeness and flawless way of expressing her opinion.
Oh hell, if she were a man, she'd be a regular on the Fox News Channel, Larry King Live and Meet the Press.
I see what you mean. After all, isn't Ann Coulter just the conservative flip side of the Rosie coin? She's making her living shoving her opinion down people's throats on Faux News etc. And she constantly gets attacked for her looks as well. But you don't see her male rightwing nutjob collegues endure the same type of attacks.
Put your way, yes I prefer Rosie over Helen. For a comedienne, however, she lacks a decided sense of humor when others disagree with her very strong opinions. It's my way or the highway as far as she's concerned.
Her extreme intransigent stance makes true and meaningful dialogue almost impossible, and though I agree with many of Rosie's views, I am put off by her rage.
She puts her money where her mouth is, though, and supports many good causes, but puhlease Rosie...! I beg you, girlfriend. Lay off the haranguing! Your brash insistence on bending others to your will makes a little wimp and know nothing like Elizabeth Hasselbeck seem almost sympathetic.
I'm SO glad you wrote about this! Oh my gosh, T@L you just expressed everything I feel about Rosie but couldn't say. There is an awful homophobic DJ on the local pop radio station who rags on Rosie all the time. Many straight guys seem REALLY threatened by her. I know she can be obnoxious, but it disgusts me how these hypocritical conservative pigs jump all over her.
brilliant said...
After all, isn't Ann Coulter just the conservative flip side of the Rosie coin?
No offense, but HELL no. Coulter spews some of the ugliest personal attacks in the public sphere. She regularly calls for her ideological opponents to be jailed or killed.
Amen! I'm glad that somebody else has the same opinion of her as I do! Yes, sometimes, as you said, she tends to insert her foot in her mouth, but she at least speaks up, and in a lot of ways, if you look beyond what she says, very often her actions speak louder than words. I'm always seeing or reading about all the charity work she does and the things she tries to do to make the world better, especially for kids. Well said, boys, well said. As usual, you put my ideas down on virtual paper better than I could myself. :-)
I already love you for several reasons, and you have just given me a few more...Rosie is brave. And gosh darn it, I just like her, too. Plus, you used the word "screed" without making a single reference to concrete.
xoxoxoxoxoxoxox!!!!!
But I like Ellen! ;_;
please, please show me a man who's ever described as "too pushy." can you think of one? if you can, he's probably gay.
i'm in rosie's corner because she is honest and genuine. i despise the shallowness of a culture that would dismiss her because she is
(a) lesbian
(b) fat
(c) not traditionally attractive.
again, tell me the name of one male public figure who is castigated for how he was made and for his physical attributes.
yes, she has a loud mouth. i cannot even count the number of right wing bush administration alleged TV news-shills who are louder, more obnoxious, say more outrageous things, are hideous, at the core, with a vile hate-filled spirit that infects them and everyone who watches them (think limbaugh, hannity, colmes, beck, matthews, coulter, carlson, o'reilly and on and on and on and on) and NO ONE criticizes them for how they look with the exception of coulter. coulter gets it for being too skinny, for having a man's adam's apple, but NOTHING like rosie.
so why? anne coulter is far more vicious and horrid than rosie could ever be. coulter gets taken to task over her skinniness, adam's apple, etc. ~ and only a bit, and mostly by progressives ~ just because she has a vagina, but she's on the right side and so is given a pass on the ugliness that spews from her foul mouth in the general media and, in fact, is held up as a goddess of patriotism and christianity.
so why would rosie be stoned in the square of public opinion while anne's allowed to run free spreading her disease of hate? hmmmmm . . . well here i go again, because that question leads me once again to the fucking CONSPIRACY THEORIES that i have running through my head because our country has been hijacked and overrun by theocrats and neocons.
but it's not a conspiracy THEORY if it's a fact, is it? so here's a theory, maybe it's a fact, sure seems like it of late: rosie is castigated because ANYONE who speaks out against the conscienceless soulless band of thugs currently occupying the government of the united states is castigated. rosie has the gall to speak up and say what needs to be said ~ what we should all be saying ~ and she is denigrated for telling the truth. she has a very public forum and so must be stopped and how best to stop someone? make them out to be a fool, to be somehow unworthy of her very existence, to be unbalanced, crazed, disgusting. make it very unpopular to like rosie and she loses her audience and no one takes her seriously.
some mornings i wake up and wonder if this is going to be the day that the american people wake up and take to the streets, that we begin to fight back against these bastards who are destroying our constitution and the entire world, who has robbed us of what is decent and honorable about the united states. rosie at least FIGHTS BACK and for that she's one of my heroes. she's not asleep on the job of being a citizen of this republic. she tries. i love her for that.
I don't get the Rush Limbaugh thing. I'm trying it:
Russia's Rightfat?
Rush is Rotfat?
I just can't get it, even with the Southern accent.
Anne
I agree with you guys on everything you wrote, but you lost me on the last paragraph. I absolutely ADORE Ellen. And I don't see her the way you guys see her at all.
She is funny and light and I love her humor. She's a good person and I would *love* to be her BFFAE and be stuck with her in a elevator, as Im sure she wouldn't let me panic..hehhe..
Even though I applaud Rosie for sepaking her mind, I admire Ellen for making us laugh even when we are really sad. Every kind personality has it's place on this earth. Even annoying Elisabeth. :-)
I learned a few things while living here in the US:
1) Doesn't matter what you say, you ARE going to offend somebody.
2) First ammendment is good and dandy, but people WILL jump on you any chance you make it to good use.
3) Is the only country where BF (brest-feeding) in public is considered indecent exposure ( totally unrelated to what we are talking about, but I'm horrified of what I'm reading about Maggie Gallenhaal lately and/or everybody that does it). >:-| /rant
I had liked Rosie for years, for just that sort of 'say what you will' behaviour -- until I went on the R Family Vacation Cruise last summer, or as my partner and I now call it, the "Good ship separate but equal". It was an environment that we, as a gay couple with no children, felt extremely uncomfortable in, particularly when she started making very sexist jokes from the stage. We knew that if we made the kinds of joke about women and their bodies that she was willing to make about men, we'd have been thrown overboard. She was superficial, shallow and an ungracious (unofficial) host.
Disagree. I'm wondering if in your zeal to stand up for a fellow homosexual, you're overlooking the things that people dislike so intensely about her. For example, I see no where in your column that she's taken to advocating "truther" sentiments that the government was behind 9/11 ... shouting really stupid stuff like "fire can't melt steel".
I see Rosie as a bully who tries to out-loud her way through an argument. And for her constituency to call people "Brown Shirt Hasselbeck" means that she's just picking up on the people she hangs around with -- the name-callers who hate Bush, hate America and hate themselves.
Just because no one has a good thing to say about her is *not* a valid argument. No one had a good thing to say about Genghis Khan, Osama bin Laden or Adolf Hitler either. If NO one likes you, chances are that you have gone out of your way to make yourself unlikeable, either by being a terrorist, by barbecuing 6 million Jews, or by having loud snarling tantrums on national television.
I hate it that Rosie is given a national stage for her deranged hatred. If people go to see her standup act, so be it. Andrew Dice Clay and misogynist rappers also have their own audience. But please, never ever give this person her own microphone again so that anyone mistakes her for someone who knows what she's babbling about.
In the South, "right" is often used as an adjective to emphasize something. For example, it's not just hot outside, it's "right hot today." Something doesn't just taste good, it's "right tasty." Someone wearing a pretty dress might be told that she looks "right nice" (or "mighty nice").
In the South, one would expect a bumper sticker that declared "Rush is Right." So its' a pure Southern goof to say that Rush is packing on a few too many pounds and so is "right...fat."
"NahnCee said...
Just because no one has a good thing to say about her is *not* a valid argument. No one had a good thing to say about Genghis Khan, Osama bin Laden or Adolf Hitler either. If NO one likes you, chances are that you have gone out of your way to make yourself unlikeable, either by being a terrorist, by barbecuing 6 million Jews, or by having loud snarling tantrums on national television."
Don't you think that's a little bit extreme? Comparing her to Hitler?
SOME people do like her, including me. Yes, she can be radical, but so can you (just reread your post).
It's OK to disagree, and the Boys have no problem with that, and that's why I come here, but c'mon...let's be reasonable.
Maybe I've missed a particularly virulent episode of The View (I've caught about 20), but I haven't seen an example yet of Rosie bullying anyone. If anything she seems better at communicating thoughtfully than the other panelists. Joy interrupts people alot more and E.H. goes off subject to avoid conceding a point. Rosie? I guess she's loud but I've never seen her mean.
"It is the 21st fucking century, people, and we should be far, FAR beyond the point where women are held to different rhetorical standards than men"
As a true feminist (one who believes that women should be EQUAL to me and not necessarily above them), this statement screamed at me. It screamed at me so much that I need to use my first comment on PRGAY for it.
You guys are the kind of people of which this world needs more. I am very appreciative of the fact that while you guys may or may not be feminists, you GET IT.
Oh, and I love Rosie too. She is who she is. And it love it.
in my post above, i meant to say 'equal to men' not 'equal to me'
sorrysorrysorry
Not a a big "View" watcher.
Not a big Rosie fan.
Not a Rosie hater either.
Not exactly offended by a woman with a politically liberal point of view vigorously expressing that point of view. On a show call "The View", no less.
As a Northerner living in a red state the South, I cannot begin to express how refreshing someone like Rosie, with all of her flaws, really is.
nahncee darling, your response would be a perfect example of exactly the kind of stuff we're talking about.
Genghis Khan, OBL and Hitler? Good grief.
I know what I'm going to say is totally irrelevant on this issue, but can you imagine Rosie having a fight with Madonna?
This is a complicated issue. Like most of all, I agree with Rosie's political point of view, however, I'm more for diplomacy, or intelligent discussions, That's why sometimes Rosie really gets on my nerve. And by intelligent discussions I mean When everybody respect other's opinions and let them talk.
On the other hand, what you guys pointed is true, when Ann Coulter says the kind of things that she says, no one points on the fact that she is too skinny, or for that matter, that she seems to have an Adan's apple in her throat. People try to object her comments with facts, or smart arguments. (I think that's a big difference between conservatives and liberals)
With Rosie is different, and honestly I don't like when ANYONE'S comments are disregarded based on her/his weight, sexual orientation, hair color or whatever... Whether is Rossie or my neighbor.
So I'm on Rossie's side on that one, but whenever she starts screaming, I turn off the tv.
Remember when some poll found that Roseanne was more disliked than Saddam Hussein? Around the time of the first Iraq war. Yup, a fat mouthy woman is more hated than a brutal dictator. I don't always agree with Rosie or even with her methods, but I think she's got a lot of heart. Her advocacy for children is unflinching. And frankly she was absolutely on the money when she roasted Trump for his hypocrisy. Mr. Marries One 25 year Old After Another is going to lecture a young woman on morality? Puh-leese. I'd rather listen to Rosie talk about her grocery list than the Hasselbeck twit do her Republican Robot routine.
just tossing an idea out there: i sometimes wonder if people's virulent hatred of rosie has to do not only with the overweight lesbian thing, but also the overbearing, loudmouth new york thing. i'm from long island (lawn guyland) and her accent kills even me! i can only imagine how the rest of america responds.
marisha
And nahncee, Rosie's comments on the twin towers is based on a lot of commentary and discussion by a large community including professors, scientists and engineers. She is not a crack pot, just a poor communicator when she is riled up.
I don't know much about Rosie O. I just wanted to chime in about public figures and name-calling. Valpal mentioned a bumper sticker that made fun of Limbaugh's weight. Never saw that. (As an aside: don't the British use "right" as Valpal describes the Southern usage?) Anyway, so I'm guessing no one else read Al Franken's Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Idiot? Damn, I thought that would get some run around here. Sure Franken made light of Rush's weight; what's more he made a nice chart showing the progress of certain proportions.
It's a funny book of smack!
This could almost have been copy-and-pasted form my blog entry a week ago. Sometimes, she says things that make me say to myself "Bitch, what are you thinking?" but she says it. She puts herself out there and says it and defies our society's ideas about how women are supposed to look, think, behave, and express themselves. And whatever she may say, it's actually what she thinks, not some sort of pre-packaged talking points, and she says it in a dialogue with other people of opposing viewpoints, not in a solo show, address-the-camera-directly-for-one-sided-diatribes-and-invite-only-sycophants-and-the-braindead-from-the-opposition format that reeks of cowardice.
I love you guys.
"No, she's not someone we'd enjoy being stuck with in an elevator, but that's not the point."
I know someone who was working in NYC and actually rode with her on an elevator. That person said only "She's not a happy person."
Take it for what it's worth to you.
My law firm actually defended her in a case, and from all accounts she was a fantastic client.
it semi-makes me sad to see two fabulousities such as power lesbian rosie and survivor sweetheart elisabeth going head to head. i love them both.
as for the argument, rosie wins.
elisabeth, however, i can see her point.
p.s. KATHY GRIFFIN for the next co-host!
Wow, a lot of comments on this topic! I just want to give a shout-out to bigassbelle...you said everything I feel but am unable to express so eloquently. Thanks!
Thanks for the post on Rosie. I've been addicted to her blog for years. It got me to know her before all of the headlines she made from "The View". I appreciate the notice of the double standard. I agree with Big Ass Belle and gorgeousthings' responses. It isn't surprising that some of these posts seem formulaic dogma of how 'crazy' or megalomaniacal she tends to be. When that is addressed, the message she conveys disappears.
'The View' spoke about Star Jones' new tits, featured the movie "Alex and Emma" and Joy's Comedy Corner. YouTube shows Rosie warming up the audience and talking to them between commercials. The other co-hosts sit at the table and watch. The things she brought up on the show (besides the WTC controversy) were NEVER featured on 'The View' before. The health problems of the 9/11 first responders, foster care, autism, depression, HBO's 'The Ghost of Abu Ghraib' and the mere fact of how the news of bad pet food preceded any info on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. She elevated that show as an example. We all should make ourselves better versions of who we are. When Rosie is on, she is tremendous. But when she is off, we all feel it.
I was disappointed of Ellen even being mentioned in the post. Nothing against either of these great women. Just that Rosie and Ellen always seem to be grouped together. Why? Because they are COMEDIANS? Um, ok. Thanks again for the post, guys. --FrancesSpencer
Want to comment without opinions, so I'll read your responses in a sec or 120. :-)
Rosie has become a very polarizing figure and what's even worse about her is that one can love and hate her simultaneously.
I understand her defense mechanisms, but they don't give her the right to go off half-cocked (sorry for the pun...hee) on Bitsy or any other person who dares oppose her "View." Any view is not absolute and up for debate. Closed-minded liberals, especially on network TV, are the shit that FAUX "News" preys on for its rabid viewership.
I love that Rosie is out and proud, I love that she's blatantly liberal, but she's 45 years old. Take a semester class at a JC to learn how to debate. People like her( and there are plenty) force the rest of us liberals who are not rich, Hollywood, New York, Coastal, whatever, defend ourselves. Whenever I've defended Rosi3 on other boards, to any extent whatsoever, I've been called a dyke and worse. That doesn't bother me as much as ignorance, but the fact remains.
Rosie: Just because you can sit in front of a camera doesn't mean you can debate. We all know Bitsy majored in softball and QB head at BC, so she has a BA (Bachorlette in Athletes). Most degrees require speech/debate, but I have a friend younger than Bitsy who went to CORNELL and wasn't required to take either until she applied to vet school.
That's how ignorant we are. We accept the current parameters of "debate" which is all screech from both sides. The art of debate is one that should never be lost.
THANK YOU! Rosie is a strong person who contributes a great deal to society. I make NO apologies for her. Brass ovaries ... that's what Rosie has! She walks the walk and tells it like she sees it. More power to her.
I agree with Potty Mouth Princess: Rosie is not an effective advocate for her own point of view. Yes, she has opinions, but the way in which she expresses those opinions becomes more noteworthy (and newsworthy) than the opinions that she was trying to express. In her case, people are so busy talking about HOW she comports herself that the valuable causes that many of you have mentioned are completely overlooked.
Frankly? Rosie is her own worst enemy. There are persuasive ways to get an opinion across and then there's Rosies' way...
You guys or so right! But my mom always told me that people who resort to making comments about looks in order to hurt someone just don't have enough smarts in their head anyways. Its the last bastion of losers. They lack quick wit and go for the obvious. Love ya boys!
Apparently, Bill O'Reilly's drag name is Nahncee. Who knew?
Methinks that Rosie like many celebrities has created an insular little world full of syncophants for herself. A world where her fact-free "opinions" and bigoted comments are never challenged.
Eventually, people living in such a world become hyper-defensive when those outside the bubble dare to ask questions. Including solid questions that have nothing to do with her weight and everything to do with her commentary.
I also question the notion that she has few defenders/enablers outside the bubble. I don't think I've heard influential Barbara Walters talk about anything BUT Rosie in the last year.
The most frequent false-compliment I hear from her legion of defenders is that she is somehow "brave" for attacking GW Bush.
Sorry, but attacking a lame-duck President who has a 32% approval-rating from his own Party rank-and-file isn't that brave.
Those of us who were calling GW Bush a clueless rino Fucktard when his post 9/11 approval-rating artifically sky-rocketed find that amusing.
There are PLENTY of high-brow formats where Rosie can attempt to back up her "opinions" and demonstrate they are based on facts, authoritative sources and logic. Formats where the panelists wouldn't dream of calling attention to her weight and appearance.
She has received HUNDREDS of invitations to debate in those formats and has declined ALL of them. Preferring instead to pretend all her critics are buffoons like Bill O'Reilly.
That isn't brave. It's cowardly.
as
Rosie gives liberal gays like me a bad name. Plenty of us know how to construct a calm and reasoned argument. Plenty of us rise above name-calling, ignore it, and lead successful lives without constant in-you-face gayness or liberal-speak. Bullying and bombast are not brave, they are self-destructive.
[quote]But even that's not our main point. As trite as it sounds, if she were a man, not only would her behavior not be controversial, it would almost certainly be lauded and virtually no one would respond to "his" points by pointing out how unattractive or fat "he" is. THAT's the point.[/quote]
Really...I like your blog but this is nonsense. Have you ever seen people tearing her altar-ego Michael Moore a new one? You bet your sweet ass they mock him for being fat and ugly, in fact I don't think they ever leave that out. Idiots get torn new ones whether they're men or women.
Anonymous 1:50 said, "I know what I'm going to say is totally irrelevant on this issue, but can you imagine Rosie having a fight with Madonna?"
You mean, you don't think Rosie would dare disagree with someone richer, more show-biz powerful, and more well-liked than her? You're probably right - she's obnoxious, annoying, and has no self-editing function, but Rosie's not stupid.
I'm going to see Kathy Griffin tonight in Baltimore! nyah nyah
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