Yes, it's childish, but I've never had a first before. I feel all special.
Thanks for putting in the time to get this up so quickly, boys. I'm amazed you had time to watch the episode, let alone discuss it, with all you've got going on. You really never do sleep, do you?
I wasn't sure about how I felt about Faye at first, but now I'm kind of loving her. She's just what Don needs. And I was definitely shouting at my tv through Joey's epic douchiness. I never thought he could be THAT bad. *shudders* I felt triumphant when Peggy fired his ass. A new regime's in town boys, and it don't take your sexist shit.
I'm starting to like Faye now too not just for the shit in the ocean line but what she says right before it too: "I don't want you complaining that I don't cook because I DON'T cook!" Or something like that.
I agree with so much of what you say, T Lo, but I liked this episode more than you. The shades are up in Don's apartment, he's out in the light, he's swimming! He put on those aviators and he was cool again. And I like how he's an effective mentor for Peggy. That's so valuable and also quite rare, probably even more so in 1965. I wasn't crazy about the writing/voiceover though. I'd rather discover what Don is thinking on my own.
The sexism in the workplace? Yeah, that resonates as does how it puts women in a no-win position. Joan really is old school and that's not always a good thing, but both she and Peggy were right.
I wasn't so clear on why Faye decided to drop her rule about getting involved with clients. It seemed a little too convenient. I did love that the fable showed Don a better approach to dealing with Betty. I may be a sap, but my guess is that if he stays with being the sun instead of the wind, Betty is going to want him back. And unlike almost everyone else on the planet, I might be okay with that.
You guys are up really early. Or late. This is an unexpected treat...
Watching 'Mad Men' often feels to me like reading (or watching) a novel. And this felt decidely 'Cheever-esque'. I'm not usually for voiceovers, but I loved the pacing of the narrative with swimming pool intervals and the Hitchcock- blonde-in-the-back-of-the-cab rides. The 'Stones at the beginning was so unexpected, I was actually thrilled. It sort of reminded me of Tom Ford's "A Single Man" as well.
My heart breaks for Joan--rough, rough waters ahead for those who resist change. Betty was heart-breaking too: Don is like the phantom limb after an amputation.
Does Stan Rizzo have any real function? Ugh, he's untenable.
Dammit, I was dying to see a powderroom confrontation between the past Mrs. Draper and the thinks-she's-about-to-be-the-new-Mrs.D. Did you see how smug she looked when she realized they were both icy blondes with updos? You can see the wheels turning, "I'm a newer model of that." I'm so glad she can make him "comfortable" but I doubt she'd ever know how to make him happy. Get over yourself, honey, other girls are going out there and making incredible new lives for themselves instead of catching a man to marry and take care of everything for them. "You want some respect? Go out and get it for yourself."
I have to say the more scenes I see of Henry in the garage (there are now TWO very significant scenes. Although this scene was sadly passive/aggressive, his staring at the "Draper" boxes seemed important.), the more convinced I am that he's gonna end up dead, blue and bloated in that garage.
If it's a choice between reading Roger's memoir and Don's book, I'm sorry to say that Roger's will win every time: maybe not poignant, maybe not beautiful as well as meaningfull, but loads more fun.
I have to disagree with your assessment of Joan's dressing down of Peggy. I think everything she said could be taken literally as true, but at the same time I have to say to me it mirrored her other message in this episode. Joan tells the men when they're dying in the jungles of Vietnam, that they're not dying for her as she couldn't give a f***. I think there's a bit of mirroring going on here with Peggy as well. Yes, she may be telling Peg that now she'll be seen as ineffective and Peggy will be seen as a humorless bitch. Yes, Joanie's power is waning, how I feel for her when this little prick brings her to tears. But she also seems to be saying to Peggy that Peggy didn't do this for her (and on some level I think Peggy did this for the sisterhood of women, not just for herself), but that Peggy did this for herself. She took matters into her own hands (as Don advised), but she did it because she wanted to and for her own ends. And isn't it sad that the advice Don gives doesn't work for women in this man-dominated world? He says, just go out and get the respect you want. But does it work for her? No, ultimately it will, but in the here and now, Joan hates her for "rescuing" her and the men all see her as a spiteful bitch, not as a person who deserves to be treated with the respect she asks for and then demands.
This was in no way the powerhouse that last week's episode was, but I think there was a lot of deep, significant content this week.
My best (Jewish) GF called laughing hysterically after hearing Dr. Faye yelling at her soon-to-be ex on the phone. It seems that "go shit in the ocean" is the literal translation of a Yiddish phrase that my friend's grandmother would scream at her grandfather when really pissed.
i found it so telling that henry would mow the lawn (don's former lawn) shirtless...especially when he knew don would be there to pick up his baggage. such an odd display of territorialism, especially from one paying rent to the EX!
I wasn't expecting this episode to top last week's, so this episode did me fine. After last week I just kept thinking, I just want to poke my head in and see how it's going and that's what this episode did. Of course the drinking is going to get out of control again, but I'm glad he's trying. I'm glad he realizes he needs to try.
How did Joan not slap Joey's face when he made that rape comment? What an asshole douchebag piece of shit! Where do the writers even come up with lines like that?
I'm glad Peggy fired that little shit and Joan will just have to get over it. That behind the scenes, manipulative "womanly wiles" way of handling things still goes on and it's just so dishonest. I understand why it went on back then, but the fact that it still goes on is a sad commentary on how women deal with men and with each other at work.
Also, I want Sal to come back SO BAD! If they can hide him from Lee Jr., or get enough business to lose Lucky Strike and Roger and not give a shit...that would be awesome. Roger is useless to them except for an account that's going to be useless to them very soon.
I don't know that Faye and Don will go anywhere in the long run (although I think it would be great if it did and men are constantly getting women they don't really deserve), but I'm really liking them together for now. She works magic on his usual reticence.
Do you think it was significant that the closeup was on Peggy taking a drink in Don's office when he was struggling with whether to take a drink or not?
I really enjoyed this episode, but I have to say--as unpopular as this will be--I really intensely dislike Joan. I hate her power-of-the-sexpot attitude and her constant bitchiness to Peggy. That's the kind of woman--well, ONE of the kinds--who has held women back. Also, I find it disgusting that Christina hendricks has said in interviews that she admires Joan's way of getting things done. Really? What century are we in?
it's a testament to the writers and to hendricks, too, that as much as I abhor Joan, I can't help but feel heartbroken for her. As beautiful and sexy as she is, those tools have failed her: she didn't snag the rich, successful man she always wanted. And now she's aging, and young assholes like Joey can treat her badly. It's tragic.
1. Are we sure Don's voice-over said "I want to be that man?" I watched it twice and that's what I heard the first time, but the second I heard "I *don't* want to be that man" (drunk, unhappy).
2. I'm curious if Don still has his infamous box of secrets, after seeing him throw away so many belongings. He doesn't seem to have many personal items in his apartment... would he have had the opportunity to take the box (and the money) from the desk? Was it in one of the boxes he tossed? It's such an important relic for him but I wonder if he would have wanted to keep it in his new home when it was responsible for the downfall of his marriage.
At first I distrusted the journaling ploy by the writers, but they sold me because what Don writes is so spare and dead on. He says it all in so few lines. (He never graduated from high school!) Don does already know Bethany, and she'll never know him because she is too young, sweet, and self-absorbed. Kinda like Betty except for the young and sweet part. BTW, since I had my captions turned on (seriously, DO THIS), I got Bethany's parting line as she exits the cab: "To be continued" but somehow I doubt that, especially since Dr. Faye looms large, an actual grown up woman with a brain AND a heart (as opposed to being childishly self-absorbed.)
And Joey needed firing badly. (So does Stan.) But Joan was right in the elevator, she could have arranged for his job loss but she handled it appropriately for the times, using the power she actually has. Peggy wants to be seen as the heroine for all her sisters in the office, but she really fired him because he insulted her, not Joan, and she possibly created a monster in the process. It's even possible that had Don himself fired him specifically for sexual harassment (a term not in use at the time), that he still may not have accepted his responsibility for losing his job. It's only 1965, and people didn't have their job status threatened over that kind of behavior until well into the 70's or even the 80's in some places. And perhaps even into the 21st century.
The parting shot of a sober, fit, smiling Don taking delight in being with baby Gene, is a luminous example of why viewers love the Bad Boy, and why Betty isn't even close to being over him.
Was it just me or were Henry's and Faye's NY accents turned up a notch in this episode?
The first episode I can remember Miss Blankenship being played as a human being with some competence and awareness rather than an extra from a sitcom. Now that Don is trying to turn his life around, I guess we don't need her camping it up to show us him enduring his punishment? It reminds me of when they gave Animal a backstory on Lou Grant and started calling him Dennis. Please, no "very special episodes" where 1) she adopts an orphan, 2) dies, only to have the office discover what an amazing person she was, or 3) have 4 different people bringing her a turkey for Thanksgiving.
Also interesting how she offers to buy a present for baby Gene, and Don turns her down. Wasn't gift-buying something Allison used to do for him as uber-perfect-simpatico-secretary-girl?
If they want to really be accurate to the times, people at the office should start noticing and whispering about how *little* Don is drinking. Nothing more disturbing to the alcohol culture than someone's pulling back from it.
One thing that's always felt off about Mad Men - not enough paper. There should be more magazines, newspapers (how many dailies ran in NY in 1965? How many had both AM and PM editions?), receipts, checks, calendars, spindles, etc strewn about. This was a society that ran on paper.
Peggy was way too smug in the elevator; she was trying to pull a guy-like "Did you notice how I just defended your honor ma'am? You may gush and thank me now." Poor Peggy, the more she rises in a man's world, the less she'll be one-of-the-girls.
It is interesting, even though a bit cliche, how Joey's attitudes about women are so freudian. His references that his mother was a "Joan". His contempt for her was truly ugly. It's like Joey sees women like Joan as Nurse Ratchett that need to be destoyed or knocked down. It kind of explains his initial embrace of peggy. He like the rest of the men, did not perceive her as sexual and therefore did not feel threatened by her.
How interetsing was that scene with harry? Joey's perception that it was another come-on by some male predatory. makes me wonder if Joey might also be a closet case or at least was sexually abused. I realize that last part is kind of reaching and meandering
I agree that in a way both women were right and both were wrong in how to deal with Joey. To our modern eyes shit-canning Joey was the right thing to do. His actions were insulting and disrespectful. But as noted Don's advice just would not completely work in this scenario. Sadly that action will cause some resentment amongst the men for Peggy and Joan loses some of their respect for her as well as her power.
The irony is Peggy is the first person to openly articulate an important fact about Joan. She and Lane run and maintain the company. Plain and simple. Joan is considered important by the TBTP just by the presence of an office. However all the non-execs, even peggy, don't fully appreciate that.
Sadly I think the best case scenario for the Joey situation would have for Lane to walk in during the whole sketch debacle and openly given Joan the power to fire the person she found out responsible for that piece of work. Lane may be a man but he would not tolerate crap like that.
Lane wouldn't exactly be rescuing Joan but laying down the law about who is in charge where it really matters.
Forgot to mention I sgree that Betty's reaction to Don's date was understandable. She's got major baggage with Don. He was her first love. She was and still is in love with him.
At least she has some self-awareness about that. Of course the extra frustrating element is this is all compounded by the issue of Dick Whitman. Someone thing she cannot discuss with anyone. If she could she likely could move on from Don. The fact that she hasn't told henry the whole truth shows she still has some regard for husband #1.
It was nice to show Henry with some normal petty emotions.
If Peggy had gone to Joan about the situation, she's have gotten a bitch comment but no real interaction. I'm not sure we've ever seen Joan and Peggy have anything resembling a real conversation...a civil one, anyways.
other than their obvious differences, I wonder why that is. Is Joan unwilling to let other women close to her?
"That's my ex-wife, her new husband and some poor schmuck who's going to have a miserable dinner." (or something like that) I did feel for Betty, and whatever her motivation, I'm glad she did the right thing at the end. In an episode where people are resisting and/or succumbing to change, she's not faring terribly. Henry's not half bad for her-he refuses to play (so far) childish games with her, but he's awfully passive aggressive and being growly at Don attending BabyGene's party was disturbing. One thing I have to mention - one of the things I love about this show is how much Jon Hamm loves kids! It just leaks out of Don, like when he was playing with BabyGene, all silly and unaffected and the older kids, too. The throwaway scene a few seasons back when Betty dropped the kids off at the hotel, and he & Bobby were eating the hamburger was adorable. Hamm's past job taking care of kids is plainly evident and is beneficial to rounding out Don's character. I really liked the ep. I've been worrying about Don being on the brink of fogeydom & irrelevancy (as Roger & Joan), as he seems to be ambivalent to the times. Last night, as he stepped out of the gym, he seemed to be getting with the program, seeming to see babies, Blacks & beautiful women in a fresh light. Kudos also to Hamm & Moss for injecting a subtle dose of intimacy to their scenes, based on last week's events.
OK, how are you guys doing this? Do you stay up and write these wonderfully insightful recaps right after the show? Don't get me wrong, I LOVE it, and I thank you for it, and it totally feeds my love of the show. I'm just wondering about your method and what drives you to put in the effort when most of us have closed the light for the night.
I woke up thinking I'd have to wait all day for this post (my work blocks your blog :( but then YAY! You guys are up early - and it's delightful! Great post.
Damn you Blogger and your 503 "Service Unavailable." I assure you that I was brilliant, brilliant and now I'll just be all bullet point observation-y...
I loved that when Don first swims, he is coughing and sputtering and gets a "Are you okay sir?" and in the end is racing a younger guy.
Heartbreaking to see that Joan has no one but Dr. Rapist. And Roger, bless her heart.
So frustrating to not be able to say "this is sexual harrassment!" and shut those trolls down. And sad to see that what had been the lighthearted boys-at-play goofing I'd enjoyed so far was much darker at its root. I blame Rizzo. Joey was cute until HE came along. And sadder still to realize that Joan was right--now she looks like just some secretary and Peggy will be seen as a humorless bitch.
Bethany made Don wait and now he's making Faye wait.
Didn't like the voice-over. Clunky, un-Don-like. But I trust the show to make it work.
I felt like the "when you die in Vietnam" speech fell flat. It felt desperate, like it was all Joan had.
They are padding Joan, right? her ass looked...don't want to say huge...like the ass of a non-actress.
Loved that establishing shot outside the NYAC--it's The 60s! Stones music, cool shades, black people who aren't working for white people!
This was an episode about women's changing roles, even though it was almost all from Don's POV.
Thanks, as usual, lads. I'm glad that our contributions to your Red Bull fund were not in vain. Now I have to go make a skirt with contrasting inset pleats...
When Joey was in Peggy's office, there was a moment where he (in a very patronizing way) put his arm on Peggy's shoulder. My blood was already boiling from everything he had said and I yelled, "HIT HIM!!"
Although I understand Joan's response to Peggy, I was frustrated by it. While Peggy had her own reasons for doing it, I think she truly did feel upset at how Joan was treated. She sticks up for Joan earlier in the episode, saying that she runs the office and deserves respect. I think that Elaine is onto something about how Joan won't let other women be close to her or help her. I wonder how she would have reacted if Don or Roger had done the firing.
Of course after the masterpiece that was "The Suitcase," whatever follows is bound to compare as a bit of a letdown. Still, there were lots of little gems in this ep.
When Betty said to Henry, "We have everything," it was a callback to earlier in the episode when Don wrote, "We're flawed because we want so much more... we're ruined because when we get these things, we wish for what we had." To me, this was a portent that there are some rocky times ahead in the Francis marriage, as if we didn't already know.
For an episode called "The Summer Man", in which Don gets his adult on, so to speak, the episode was rife with childish behavior and temper tantrums. Henry was right when he called Betty out for acting like a child in the restaurant, so it was amusing to see him turn around and act the same way when he bashes his car into Don's boxes and refuses to acknowledge Don when he comes to pick them up and continues to silently mow his lawn, marking a territory that really belongs to Don.
In contrast, the children's party seemed downright demure. I noticed how Sally sat playing with Gene like a little lady-mommy- and the way she limply & wistfully waved at Don made my heart break a little.
The ep was rife with bookends: the first swim scene where Don comes up sputtering, to the final one when he edges out the younger man in the lane next to him (with the one in the middle when he starts to sink á la "A Single Man"); the contrast between the two cab scenes.
The episode began with the Stones' "Satisfaction." Can the fact that it ended without music signify that Don is finally getting some?
It absolutely resonated with me every time Peggy was called out for having no sense of humor ("a pioneer in the science of wet blanketry")by the "boys-will-be-boys." I can't tell you how many times those insults were thrown at me in the 80s & 90s whenever I took umbrage at a dirty joke.
Joan sobs when her husband tells her she can talk to her friends at work. It's sad that she cannot recognize that she really could have a true friend at work in Peggy if she would only let down her guard. But that's how it was then- women in the workplace were suspicious of other women- and still are to a degree.
Peggy has always looked up to Joan from day one of the show. Joan knows this & always uses it to try to take Peggy down a notch. Joan seems to have no close female friends-she always has to be the alpha, feared & adored & lusted after. The thing with Peggy is that she never was scared of nor tried to emulate Joan so Joan's put-downs perplex her, but don't demoralize her, which irritates Joan even more. Peggy's situation with Joey was tough even w/out the sexual politics. She has worked so hard just to get equality with the guys in the office and but now, she's their boss. Joey had to be fired for insubordination, no matter what his crime - he refused to take responsibility & make things right. Joan might have been correct about Peggy being perceived as a humorless bitch, but as the boss, that was bound to happen anyways.
Of course after the masterpiece that was "The Suitcase," whatever follows is bound to compare as a bit of a letdown. Still, there were lots of little gems in this ep.
When Betty said to Henry, "We have everything," it was a callback to earlier in the episode when Don wrote, "We're flawed because we want so much more... we're ruined because when we get these things, we wish for what we had." To me, this was a portent that there are some rocky times ahead in the Francis marriage, as if we didn't already know.
For an episode called "The Summer Man", in which Don gets his adult on, so to speak, the episode was rife with childish behavior and temper tantrums. Henry was right when he called Betty out for acting like a child in the restaurant, so it was amusing to see him turn around and act the same way when he bashes his car into Don's boxes and refuses to acknowledge Don when he comes to pick them up and continues to silently mow his lawn, marking a territory that really belongs to Don.
In contrast, the children's party seemed downright demure. I noticed how Sally sat playing with Gene like a little lady-mommy- and the way she limply & wistfully waved at Don made my heart break a little.
The ep was rife with bookends: the first swim scene where Don comes up sputtering, to the final one when he edges out the younger man in the lane next to him (with the one in the middle when he starts to sink á la "A Single Man"); the contrast between the two cab scenes.
The episode began with the Stones' "Satisfaction." Can the fact that it ended without music signify that Don is finally getting some?
It absolutely resonated with me every time Peggy was called out for having no sense of humor ("a pioneer in the science of wet blanketry") the "boys-will-be-boys." I can't tell you how many times those insults were thrown at me in the 80s & 90s whenever I took umbrage at a dirty joke.
Joan sobs when her husband tells her she can talk to her friends at work. It's sad that she cannot recognize that she really could have a true friend at work in Peggy if she would only let down her guard. But that's how it was then- women in the workplace were suspicious of other women- and still are to a degree.
Joan reached the apex of her power in the scene at the Clios, where she simultaneously held hands with both Don and Roger--the perfect mother/wife easing the concerns of her two boy/men needing nurturing. Throughout the remainder of the Clio scenes, she milked that moment--cajoling, scolding, humoring, playing the perfect hostess. Her final golden moments.
(Sidebar: That purple dress that Joan wore at the beginning of the decade--though not recognized at the time--may well have been a signal of her coming slide from power.)
While Joan was spending her powers, Peggy was beginning to discover the full force of her strength.
Locked in a hotel room with Stan on Clio day, Peggy stewed, angry and jealous--angry that her contribution to the winning ad hadn't been acknowledged, jealous that she hadn't been invited to the award ceremony. Her anger, hurt, envy combined with Stan's goading, seemed to open up a door in her mind. In typical Peggy fashion, minus fanfare and visible emotion, she asserted herself--called Stan's bluff by stripping naked and calmly demanding that they go on working.
Fast forward to last night's episode: Joan reacted to Joey's drawing in typical Joan fashion--she was emotional, matriarchal; her words had no real impact on the men she challenged. An ineffectual performance straight out of the fifties.
Contrast that with Peggy's performance in firing Joey. Authoritative, unemotional, totally in control of both the situation and her feelings: "Don doesn't even know who you are." "It's just a job, Joey. Get over it." Peggy's no one's mother, no one's wife. She's the boss. A bitch? Perhaps. But bitchiness, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.
Both women have a tough road ahead. Joan will seek solace, reaffirmation in Roger's bed. Peggy, like most women of her time in that place, will need to rely primarily on herself. Will she continue to have the backbone for it?
One other thing: Up thread, someone lamented that Peggy would lose her place as "one of the girls". I think that being one of the girls is on neither Joan's nor Peggy's to-do list--for very different reasons.
Im glad you brought up that Joans way of handling the problem of joey was to go out with a big shot and connive him away. or the "people are complaining" ruse. THat she ripped on Peggy in the elevator annoyed me. Joan is jealous of Peggy - hence that little dig about walking around her office because she could "use it". yeah, Peg, youre on your way to big shottiness but you arent a SHANGHAI MADAM LIKE ME. LOL!
Im glad they gave Joey that line. I felt it all the way through the TV. Ouch.
I could do with out Henry and Betty Francis. Boy did she ever go from the pan to fire...now shes got political ambition to endure. Dipshit. and i kind of find Henry repulsive. I felt happy for DOn when i saw Henry out mowing the lawn .
I sort of dont like Faye either....maybe it was her bad bad bad date hairdo. man o man dippity doo got a work out. i will always like Rachel Menken the BEST.
thanks TLo for an awesome monday morning coffee read.
I always suspected (and certainly hoped) that Don and Faye were going to end up together, but before that could happen Don was going to have to take his pickled head out of his arse and patch together enough of his higher self to even attempt a relationship of real value (as valuing relationships is not something Don has ever been good at, even Roger saw that). I was therefore encouraged by last night's episode, and really like where Don and Faye are headed. Again, it could crash and burn a la Rachel Mencken (after all, this is DON we're talking about), but hopefully his "been there, done that" fear of repeated failure -- and Anna's death -- will give him enough fuel to move beyond where he's come from -- in more ways than one.
Best line of the night has to go to Peggy: "I feel like Margaret Mead." I howled.
I really liked this episode. I hope Betty gets her head out of her ass about that house. She needs to get out of it. I can't believe they are still there. It's weird.
I'm glad Francine isn't giving Betty the Helen Bishop treatment, because I love that actress. Did anyone ever see her in The Book Group? Not the best show, but she was good in it.
Love your synopsis-as always! I really feel this season's major thesis is "generation" It keeps coming round and round. Yes, Poor Joan is being cornered out( her figure is going to be so out of date by 1966 with the Twiggys), but she still manages to grasp what's ahead with the Vietnam speech. Those pampered boys have no clue what's ahead for their generation! And Betty got "bitch slapped" with her age also! She's no longer the prom queen, and she knows it. I've said before- our Betts is NOT going to age well. Bitter seems to be the tone. Peggy is the torch-bearer for future women of the 80's. Pete is tuck in the middle.And, I really do feel, that there is going to be another break-off with a move to California-next season, if not this one. Well I'm finished rambling now!
I agree that this episode felt a little flat to me. I din't really care for the voice-over and other than finding out that Don didn't graduate from high school, I didn't find his musings particularly interesting or insightful.
Joan is clearly on a downward arc, at least in terms of her power within the culture. Her manipulative methods as an aging sexpot will beocme increasingly ineffective. She seemed to think that if she just could work her magic on the right client that they would get Joey fired. But I doubt that would work. She went to Don and to Lane with her "there have been complaints" bit and got nowhere. Lane seems to respect her but is also impervious to her old-fashioned, manipulative way ot doing things.
For some reason I just can't warm up to Dr. Faye. Her backstory seems somewhat similar to Peggy's - a working-class, outer borough ethnic (with a dad with some ties to the mob, no less) who is charting a new course for herself. I should like her but I just don't. And her accent, which was always present, seemed much stronger last night.
Okay, I'm posting this before I read your commentary because I wanted to get my three favorite lines out there.
1. Hands down, Pete Campbell's single appearance in the episode: "When did we get a vending machine?!"
2. Francine--"Oh, Betty, you have terrible luck with entertaining." Among other things!
3. Don: "It's Gene's birthday." Miss Blankenship: "Would you like me to buy him or her a gift?"
And I thought that little monologue Joan had about Vietnam was just chilling. Like, I want to cheer for her for telling them off so completely, but at the same time, what she said was kind of awful.
When Don said “he was conceived in a moment of desperation, and born into a mess” -- did it seem to anyone else like he was describing his own beginnings (not just baby Gene's)?
This was another dark episode. I really enjoyed Peggy firing Danny the little shit. What a big man, he had to dump folders all over the floor. And I loved seeing Joan in so many scenes.
I love Dr. Faye too. And how annoying would it be to have an attendant in the bathroom when all you want is a good cry?
Absolutely spot on analysis of the Joan vs Peggy approach to power, and the down side of each one. The sea change in women's place in the world from then to now cannot be underestimated!
Sorry, but you got the Peggy--Joan thing all wrong fellas. Joan is the quintessential queen bee, the woman who sleeps with the boss and is rewarded, not with real power, but with control over other women. Remember how she treated Peggy's first promotion. She was pissed. Joan does not like other women. They are her competition. Peggy, on the other hand, does have power, albeit small and given grudgingly, but real nonetheless because she's good at her job. Other women are Peggy's friends not her competition. She righted a wrong on principal. Joan is threatened by Peggy because she has no control over her anymore.
So depressing how much sexual harassment and competition with other females I deal with at work.
I just got fired from a job recently and I'm not sure why but I would put a large part of the blame on the fact that my boss was racist and sexist. I got hit on regularly by customers and the like and I complained to my boss and his response was essentially I should be happy because it means i'm pretty and it's a compliment. It wasn't nearly as bad as anything joey or stan say but it was still out of line and as a manager he shouldn't ignore those kinds of issues.
Also the competition of females like peggy vs joan etc is so rampant and obvious even today it's just ridiculous. I've never made friends with a girl at work before. I can hang around with all the guys and they treat me well. Girls have always treated me as if I'm incompetent when I generally do not have ill feelings towards them. Girls also tend to take advantage of the emotional feelings at work rather than superior skill. Girls that succeed in my experience normally have a "relationship" with male or female managers, sexual or friendship, instead of succeeding solely on the merits of their work.
Oh and one more thing about Joan....anyone who works in an office knows that she is the "office wife," the woman who caters to the men because they are the husbands. She does all the "wifely" chores including supervising the "help," in this case, the clerical staff. If anyone is a humorless bitch, it's Joan, not Peggy.
What was up with that bizarre scene with Harry trying to get Joey to try out for Peyton Place? I'm afraid were not done with Joey yet and that he is going to someday reappear to exact his revenge.
Also loved when Joan yelled at Peggy to stop using her office as a short cut. I had to do the same thing a few months ago. It didn't bother me the first 3+ years, but it started driving me crazy.
I thought it was really good. The fact that Don had a little electricity pumping through him for a change made the whole show hum. I hated each commercial interuption!
and the Peggy firing and Joan weighing in... Peggy was of course flummoxed by Joan's anger. But Peggy could have said "I didn't fire him to protect you. I fired him because he was a shit on many levels and we can do better here." And Peggy would have said that to many people. She just knew that it wasn't helpful to say it to Joan. Peggy is getting wiser and wiser.
Girls that succeed in my experience normally have a "relationship" with male or female managers, sexual or friendship, instead of succeeding solely on the merits of their work.
=========== While I wouldn't condone sexual relationships in the work place--they can make for really messy office politics--having a mentor, someone who has your back, is a practical and often useful strategy.
So many thoughts I think I can only comment by bullets:
Obviously both Joan and Peggy are right. Peggy is the voice of today and Joan the voice of yesterday of course, but I think also that part of what is so insulting to Joan is that Peggy tells her in the elevator not out of a sense of sisterhood solidarity, but also bit boastful. She's proud of being modern and having the power to fire a man. The little upstart that Joan had to show the ropes became her uninvited savior and is now furthering the humiliation by rubbing her face in it. I don't think she was doing it to be mean, but Joan has had enough humiliation for one day.
Bethany/Faye/Betty all seem like variations of the same woman. I'm sure that's intentional. Not wonder after Don says, "I already know you." he asks Faye out to dinner.
What a smug, entitled little bastard Joey is. He mistakes Harry's Hollywood preening is him trying to come onto him and calls him a fairy, he insults Joan, previously he signed the card without donating and seems ready to slack off at the drop of a hate. I cheered when Peggy fired him. Joan had on another version of her spinster outfit in the blue, high waisted pencil skirt and hideous blue floral top. Peggy had on yet another cute, dress. I guess making more money agrees with her, she's certainly dressing better and we haven't seen a sad perter pan collar in a while. Betty looked younger and prettier than she has all season and yet she still somehow came off as looking much older than Bethany at the restaurant. Henry is such a passive aggressive jerk. So apparently they are now paying Don rent. Still he takes his anger at Betty out on Don first by running into his boxes then getting them out the garage all together by lying about a boat.
I really enjoyed this episode. I liked the voice over by Don and I really liked the way Henry Francis handled Betty in the car--telling her among other things, to grow up and responding "I hate Nazis" in response to her adolescent mewing of "I hate him" (meaning Don). Me thinks Mr. Francis is starting to feel the impact of his momma's insightful comment of "Henry how can you stand living in that other man's dirt?" Betty may very well end up alone, twice divorced, bitter, alientated from her children and living off alimony in much reduced circumstances if she doesn't "grow up".
Doesn't Joey say something like "boy I really got you all wrong" when Peggy fires him? She should have said he got him all wrong too. I know I did. Until last week when he wouldn't clean up his own mess, I thought he was an okay guy. I thought Stan was the bigger problem. Turns out they're all bad.
Didn't Stan use the term poontang? I didn't realize it was that old. Any naughty word etymologists out there want to give us unborn fawns the skinny on that word? I know I'm curious.
I did really like this episode, voiceover and all. Don trying to self-analyze? That could only be good.
And I thought that Betty's behavior at the end was a true sign of maturity, not a pretend one. Perhaps Henry is that good an influence on her. No??? The wistful look she gave Don when he was holding Gene made sense, too. It would have been perfect if he had been the kind of exemplary husband and father she imagined but he wasn't, so... Doesn't mean she can't grieve for that ideal a little.
I agree with previous poster Elaine in that I am not a Joan fan at all. Her nasty reaction to Peggy was borne out of embarrassment and the reality that Peggy is becoming more powerful and independent. Joan has been used to getting her way with men and women, and she's totally lost control with Peggy.
I'm starting to like Faye now too not just for the shit in the ocean line but what she says right before it too: "I don't want you complaining that I don't cook because I DON'T cook!" Or something like that. ============ I love a woman who refuses to cook. I tried it once--attempted a grilled cheese sandwich. The toast burned. The cheese refused to melt. Couldn't figure out why that happened. Hate to feel stupid. Moved on to more fulfilling endeavors. Have managed to stay away from stoves since. It's nice.
Betty is jealous of Don's freedom when she sees him the restaurant (and of course, his Betty.2 date). Henry is jealous of his freedom later on. He is literally mowing the other man's lawn. I though that was kind of an in your face allegory. Dick/Don picks up the cartons and tosses them. Goodbye old life! Old barriers! He considers that Gene likely thinks that Henry is his father, calls him Daddy. Then he returns to hold his son. Betty cleaves to Henry out fear and looks at Gene and Dick/Don with envy again.
Joan only needs to look to Mrs. Blankenship to see her future. The best case scenario for our Joanie is to be widowed and find love with Lane. That is if she can handle a man who doesn't swoon at the sway of her hips and baby doll voice, but loves and respects her for her ability and talent. While the ever capable Joan is oft admired, she does have a very weak petty character flaw-- the need to put down other women around her from the lovely girl Paul was dating (her racism was small and mean) to the insensitive treatment of the secretaries at the old firm (crying in the bathroom is against the rules) and the treatment of Peggy. "You arent' much." She literally doesn't seen anyone in a room unless they are male. Additionally, her method of asserting control in the office was made vis a vis-- sleeping with the boss. To think she would prefer to put up with the Joeys of the office than to accede another woman in the office has power. Perhaps the prostitute reference wasn't off the mark as her way of handling problem is to use sex to influence a man who wields power (I'll wash your back....)
Christina Hendricks and Elizabeth Moss did a wonderful job-- As has TLo-- thanks very much for this quick post, I was very surprised to see it up so early.
Three thoughts: I don't think Joan needed "rescuing" from the Joey situation. She used to cut Paul Kinsey down if she could. And Joey initially attacked her with exactly the same tactic Paul did-Joan's age(she's the madam, not the hooker). Second, the scene with Harry, I thought, was to highlight Joey's inability to perceive accurately and that inability will get him shot down. Third, Harry always talks about Peyton Place, but he never seems to use it for real work. A big contrast to Joan's ability to figure how to sell advertising time on As The World Turns in season 2.
The whole joan/peggy thing was incredibly frustrating to me. Joan would have been fine with either Don or Lane taking care of Joey, since she took her "some complaints" line to them both. The fact that Peggy did it wasn't acceptable to her, since Peggy is, of course, a woman. You are so right that she is old-fashioned, trying to deal with this with her feminine wiles, instead of directly.
I am really not looking forward to seeing more such misogyny on the show, even though I know that behavior like this continued well into the 80s, until "sexual harrassment" actually turned into a thing with teeth. Makes me weep for the women of the time.
I thought it was a very hopeful episode (for Don, but not for Joan, of course). I like the sassy Faye, but I doubt they'll go far together since she is based on a real person. Also, Don realized Bethany would be a repeat of past mistakes. Although, I thought Bethany's "her?!?!" was more in awe of Betty, not competitiveness. Notice how she perked up and seemed more eager to please Don all of a sudden? Before she may have thought him to be a bit of a sad sack. It was an odd sort of girl crush sort of thing.
Girls that succeed in my experience normally have a "relationship" with male or female managers, sexual or friendship, instead of succeeding solely on the merits of their work.
Peggy's always had her special relationship with Don, renewed just last week. No, it isn't sexual--but it's definitely helped her career.
Joan doesn't have girl friends? Well, neither does Peggy. Don't think she's all that close with Rasputin the Roommate. Maybe she'll revisit the Downtown Crowd.
I can see both Peggy's & Joan's side on that conversation in the elevator. But it's too bad they've never had a chance to really talk about work & men; both of them are pretty reserved around the office. And Peggy has just reminded Joan that she's an underling. (A very vulnerable Joan--whose sometimes-dreadful husband was the closest she had to a friend.)
Oh--"poontang" was definitely in common usage back then. I remember it!
I was very glad to hear "Satisfaction." It fit & that song really was "everywhere." (I liked the Stones & my sister was a Beatles fan. Of course, I could listen to her records as well as mine. The Beatles were just about to evolve beyond cute moptops.)
Keep in mind that Peggy started the confrontation with Joey by telling him to apologize to Joan. If he had gone along, she may not have fired him. It was his disrespectful response to her and her realization that he wasn't going to change that made her fire him.
I didn't like Joan's response at all, although I understand it. The sad part is, Joan doesn't know that Peggy told Joey that "Joan and Lane run the place." Peggy does respect Joan, but Joan's envy of Peggy's rise doesn't allow her to see that.
Although it looks to the rest of the office that Peggy fired Joey in defense of Joan, she didn't fire him until he disrespected HER. When he wouldn't do as she demanded, that he apologize to Joan, the only way for her to maintain her own power in the situation was to fire him.
I really enjoyed this episode. Joan SO reminds me of the very first "queen bee office manager" I worked for in the 60's. She dressed like Joan and even had a pen hanging from a pin instead of a chain. The rumors were so rampant that she was sleeping with the married exec VP of our office and had been for years. These were the days when the VP came around, handed us our paychecks, patted us on the head and was a condescending SOB.
I really liked this episode a lot. I know I'll be watching it again.
I love how Don swam through the episode. I thought last week he had hit rock bottom, but I could not picture him in a twelve step program. Not yet. Taking the exercise route, and trying to work it out himself, does seem true to his character. And swimming is both symbolic and so beautiful.
I would read a book by Don Draper.
And the lack of credit music at the end felt very cold turkey. Almost startling.
Such a good show. Thanks again, TLo and commenters for enhancing the experience!
This is the first MM episode I ever wanted to continue long after it was over. It could've easily been titled "The Demise of Joan". And why didn't Joan want to sleep with Greg? I hope it wasn't because she's ovulating. But it was exactly what was happening in the office: a man disrepecting her power. She told Greg no but that didn't stop him. I still hope he gets killed by friendly fire in Vietnam. Maybe in a duel with Joey over who is the bigger dick.
I really enjoyed this episode. I began my career in advertising in 1985, so Joan would have been in her 50s and Peggy in her 40s then. We still called them "secretary's" back then and, trust me, I had my share of "Joan's" - women who resented young professional "girls" and who actually believed we were as good as the men we worked with.
Our "Joans" never treated us as well as they treated the men they worked for and often treated us worse. My "Joan" acted as if I was a child and knew nothing.
My "Peggy" on the other hand was a career woman and my ally. She trusted me and ENtrusted me. I loved her and saw her as my mentor. She was tough and smart and, yeah - one of the guys. She taught me how to be a professional because she relied on her skills and her brains, not her femininity.
TLo has said that Joanie is becoming dated in her appearance. Now it's her attitude. Those boys won't give her a second thought in the jungles of Vietnam - they'll be thinking about girls their age. And their own mothers. But Joan thinks every man still desires her. And the harder she fights to cling to that belief, the more desperate she appears. And nobody desires desperation.
Anonmyous said: Confession time: every time Don contemplated drinking, I would scream "No, Don! Don't give in!" ..... then take a swig of my cocktail...
9/13/10 5:16 AM
Ha ha, Anon, I can relate. I raised my wine glass of Chianti to Don and Dr. Faye when they were drinking their Chianti, then tutted at Don when he took a sip.
Ten years after the Joey/Rizzo/Peggy/Joan sexual harrassment incident I was a young member of the legal department at a Forutne 100 company - my first job, along with a crop of other new attorneys. We always had lunch at a big round table in the Executive Dining Room; I was the only female attorney in the department.
One day one of the more senior of the bunch started to needle the one black attorney with some remarks about which neighborhoods he could live in and how he'd have to be mowing lawns (not as Henry Francis, either) in others. I was appalled, but no one objected. The conversation then got a little blue, which made me uncomfortable, given the professional context, so, with my lunch finished, I remarked that the topic was a bit much for my taste, and excused myself from the table.
The black attorney came to my office later on to tell me that after I left there was a fair amount of har-de-har-har'ing and then speculation about my sex life, especially from the race-baiter. I told him that I was horrified at the racist remarks, which he wearily said he could deal with.
I never ate with them again. And the sexist/racist went on as the company's fair-haired child to become, 20 years later, the general counsel. And word was that he still was a prick. [And I don't use that term lightly.]
Peggy and Joan, I had a lot of empathy for you. Last night's episode resonated.
Gentlemen, I have to thank you for putting up this post so quickly, and having once again given such insight to this delicious series. I know how hard it is to keep up a blog (which is why I don't have one, too much work!) but you never disappoint. I really do look forward to your Mad Men posts because it feels like I'm taking a graduate level film class. I love the comments too, the replies are always so intelligent and snarky! As a loyal bitter kitten/ unborn fawn who has been reading your blog for years, Thank You. Never leave me, darlings!
I'm still not entirely sure about Faye but as someone who's pulled herself up by her bootstraps maybe she is a good match for Don. Perhaps another reason for his caution in the taxi-cab (aside from the fact that he's becoming a mensch) is that her daddy has ties to the mob - don't mess this woman around Don otherwise you could end up sleeping with the fishes.
HATED Joey, he really is just a nasty little twerp. How jaded do you have to be to see Harry's open, generous, enthusiasm as a come-on? As for the way he treated Joan (and Peggy) - unforgivable. He's probably just oily enough to dodge the draft, unfortunately.
I too was intrigued by the lack of music over the end credits. On a practical level, however, I do wonder if it's because they blew their budget on the Stones.
Thanks for the recap boys and thanks again for leading me to Mad Men.
The difference between Joan and Peggy's handling of the situation was spot on. My mom is a "Joan". She told me I was "too bossy" because I was direct with my boyfriend (now husband). Her approach "men need to think they're in control, so get them to do what you want by making them think it was their idea". Groan.
I really liked this episode because Don seemed to be waking up, seeing himself and the world again. With all the water imagery, I think that it was like a baptism into a new life. In the previous episode, Don really hit bottom -- floored in a fight, vomit on his shirt, etc. He seems reborn, in a sense, and taking lots of baby steps to grow up & be a mensch.
I don't think that Don's drinking less would be anything but a relief to everyone in the office because his excesses were becoming an embarrassment & beginning to hurt the business. However, it would be a difficult environment in which to be a teetotaler.
If the unexamined life is not worth living, then Don's life is gaining meaning again. His observations of the world around him and his own struggles can only help him in the advertising business too.
Anon 9:27. "I agree with previous poster Elaine in that I am not a Joan fan at all. Her nasty reaction to Peggy was borne out of embarrassment and the reality that Peggy is becoming more powerful and independent. Joan has been used to getting her way with men and women, and she's totally lost control with Peggy."
That's exactly how I saw it. I was cringing at her telling Peggy off.
Henry was truly pissing on his territory, wasn't he?
Don said something in the voice over like: "People show you who they really are all the time, we don't see it because we are busy seeing what we want them to be."
It was something like that. It's so true and something I need to remember.
Also, when Don suggested dinner with Faye, she said, why don't you ask me in advance and not just spur of the moment. I would never say that but, I am a complete failure in the dating world. Is it wrong to think spur of the moment works better sometimes? Like, before anyone's can build up expectations that won't be met at the actual date?
I think I'm thinking about this show way too much.
Loved how pertinent the lyrics to Satisfaction were to Don's work & life:
When I’m watchin’ my tv And that man comes on to tell me How white my shirts can be. Well he can’t be a man ’cause he doesn’t smoke The same cigarettes as me. I can’t get no (Satisfaction)
I don't agree guys - I loved this episode. I needed a little bit of Don improvement as things were getting far too dreary and "Lost Weekend' in the first half of the season. And I knew since we laid eyes on her that Don and Faye were meant to, at the very least, get entangled. She's smart; he's smart. He needs a new Rachel - not a new Betty. And it's inevitable that Joan got made at Peggy but those two will never see eye to eye. It doesn't diminish the fact that both of them were trying their best to do the right thing - push back against the harassment. There's more than one way to do things - just glad they both did something. And glad Joey is gone.
Baxter's Mom, the Yiddish for "Go shit in the ocean" is "Gay kaken offen yom" and my (Jewish) family used it all the time. I laughed out loud at that line.
As for Joan, she is indeed the type--real or fictional--that is often perceived very differently by men and women. To many men, she is vulnerable, sexy as hell, and someone you want to be around and protect.
To many women she is the nasty Queen Bee who uses her sexual attractiveness to get her way, always let's the less kittenish know where they rank, and frequently has no female friends.
I can't stand the Joans of this world and have very little sympathy for them. I sympathize with the limited options women of her time had, but she made her own bad choices: no one made her pursue a married man; no one made her be so mean and petty to other women. She chose that all on her own.
I had two beautiful aunts who would be about Joan's age, both of whom had the brains and talent to be professionals. Instead, they were homemakers--very smart, very creative, very successful homemakers. But you know what they were not? Home-wreckers who put other women down. I'm sorry, but Joan is not some helpless victim.
As for the elevator scene with Peggy, I thought Peggy was attempting a display of sisterhood with Joan, with perhaps a side-dish of "See, I am doing OK here." Joan's amazingly mean response read to me as one woman's defensive response to another woman's ascendant power. She cut Peggy off at the knees to get a little bit of her own back.
And THAT is exactly why she has no female friends and why I will not mourn her coming downfall. She's earned it.
"And what's both illuminating and a little depressing is just how mundane his thoughts really are"
Awesomely put. HATED the voiceover work. I mean, isn't half the reason the show is so great the subtlety? Because we can sit here and spend DAYS picking apart what this look or that phrase meant? Such an odd choice to go for the heavy-handed this-is-what-I'm-thinking-now route.
As a former 24-viewer the lack of music at the end freaked me out a little...like "Oh no! Who did they just silent-clock?!?" Have they ever ended without music before? Couldn't figure out what the significance of that was....
Henry? strapping? I beg to differ- he looked like a skinny old guy angrily mowing the lawn. it was great to see him get fed up & be a more rounded character though- who hasn't wanted to tell Betty to shut up?
Anyone else think it was mega creepy that Joey stated that his "Mom is a Joan, even wore a pen around her neck so everyone would look at her boobs"- and then descended into a nonstop fantasy world about Joan & her imagined sexual activities... eeew
thanks for having this post ready so early! I watched the episode twice and I loved Don's voice-over narrating, all the time I kept thinking that it was like a letter to somebody (Anna? Sally when she is older?), I thought it revealed many things about Don... to me the episode showed a new kind of Don, a mix of Don and Dick, somehow and how he will become a better man by taking the best parts of both... (yes, there are good parts in Don/Dick, although sometimes is hard to believe). I think it was a very good episode and some of the changes in style and narrative were reminiscent of The Sopranos.... just the fact that there was so much light all the time made it very pleasant, although some very heavy-handed things were being dealt with... The scene with Don at the NYCA made me swoon and the final scene with happy Don with Gene made me cry... and that's the beauty of Mad Men....
After this episode, I think I got a much better idea what Joan does even though we still don't hear what her official title is.
She's certainly more than just an office manager, executive assistant or even "office wife". She clearly wears many hats and involved with the running of the company at every level. She overseers human resources, expensing, orders, supply change, planning. Lane from that one scene clearly has come to respect her ability and intelligece and Joan has the luxury of an informal attituide in her mannerism with him.
However the 1 thing Joan does not have the power to do is fire someone. If she did, this whole fallout with Peggy would be a moot point I suspect.
I do feel Joan's anger toward peggy is both based on jealousy and justified frustration as stated by everyone. Yes Peggy respects Joan and appreciates what she does for the company, but when was the last time she let Joan know that, if ever? Look how resentful she was when Joan was taken to the Clios. Who has given Joan that kind of validation. I realize the "joans" of the world can be controlling pains in the ass but THIS Joan I think deserves some recognition.
It's a good kind of scary to be reminded the real pigs of this world are more like Joey than Rizzo. Rizzo seems just immature and un-evolved compared to the genuine contempt Joey seems to have for women.
I liked this episode myself, though I agree that last week's was more spectacular.
I wonder if the show's creator reads blogs -- many people were complaining about the lack of reference to 60's music and now we get the Stones blaring during a scene (not at the end with the credits).
I don't think that Joan was doing a good job "handling" the Joey situation, since her actions were traditional feminine ones and would only uphold the status quo. I hate it when women say, "Oh, that's a man for you," instead of demanding that men change.
Poor Peggy. I'm reminded of how much flak women like Peggy took from BOTH women and men. It reminds me of cases where there is spousal abuse toward a wife and the wife gets angry with the police who arrest her husband. Women have masochism built into them by society.
"People tell you who they are, but we ignore it, because we want them to be who we want them to be."
many people had said that Don's voice over showed how mundane his thoughts were.... I must be very mundane too, because I thought this particular phrase was very insightful... and very very true....
Just one comment on the Joan/Peggy interaction which I thought was extremely fascinating. When Peggy said "I defended you" to Joan and Joan replied "No, you defended yourself," I was really struck by the fact that Peggy recognizes that an insult like Joey's to one woman in the office has a huge impact on the working conditions for all the women in the workplace. I don't mean to malign my beloved Joanie, but I don't think she feels anything remotely like solidarity with the other women in the office. She's not a secretary, but she's not one of the guys. She walks a lonely path and feels like she can't afford any allies.
In contrast, while Peggy's actions may have hurt Joan in the short term, she's helping to set a precedent that those kind of frat boy antics won't be tolerated against her or anyone else, especially someone like Joan, who has more than earned the right to a little respect. Joan's solution basically only helped Joan. The boys would still have had no problems torturing any other woman in the office if they so chose.
I also find it super interesting that as the gender lines are breaking down, there is so much confusion over Joan's role in the office. As the head secretary at the old Sterling Cooper, she was well respected not just for her looks, but for her talent and her take no prisoners attitude. She was universally recognized as the glue that kept the office together. She was the alpha female, which meant that even if she didn't actually outrank any of the men in the office, she wielded considerable control over them.
At the new SCDP, the division of labor between women and men is becoming less pronounced. Because the men accept, to a certain extent, that women can do what they do they have lost respect for what it is that women used to do. This is a common theme in the first few waves of feminism (and really still persists)- equality is achieved by showing that women can work like men, rather than by valuing traditional "women's work" as just as essential to the running of an office.
I thought the lack of music at the end was meant to illustrate the emptiness of Betty's comment that "we have it all". Her home is just a shell of what a happy home should look like and her witnessing Don's joy with their child, something that she doesn't feel with the children, probably disturbed her. She's also lost some power and feels it when Don shows up unexpectedly. The silent ending was a great bookend to the opening music. This whole season has been about transitions and this was just another interesting, small way to show it.
I love your recaps, but don't you get that this was not the same misogyny the series opened with? Things have changed, sex is becoming freer and people are becoming more open about it. Now that young men can get what they want more easily without paying lip service to old-fashioned chivalry, they're less respectful of it. Sorry to sound old-fashioned, but there were some big sociological changes going on at that time, and this is one of the ways they're being expressed--more overt challenges and obscenity. Plus Joan is tipping over into the age where her sexual allure doesn't exert such a big pull. (Maybe the same change happened for Mrs. Blankenship!)
Also, I doubt Betty was giving blow jobs in taxis--it was a different era! (She also admitted in this episode that Don was her first.)
I'm wondering -- really wondering, not predicting -- if the writers are trying to set up a reveal that Harry is gay. Did anyone notice how he said in last week's episode, when he was handing out the fight tickets, that if Jennifer asks, he really did pay for them? Of course, there are a lot of things he could be spending money on behind his wife's back, but it just seems a little coincidental.
On the other hand, the "Peyton Place" scene with Joey could've been just to show the irony of Joey thinking he was sexually harassed, when in fact he's the harasser.
I think this episode had a lot to do with people revealing truths to each other and themselves. Saying out loud what they had been thinking or trying to avoid.
Well, as it may seem as an end of Joan's career I really do hope, that Don referring to conception of Baby Gene was reffering to Joan & Greg's baby. As far as i remember those scenes were shown immidiately one after another. I can imagine Joan losing her power but being rewarded the family life she wanted. What is painful for me, is that Joan may end up losing everything both her husband & her influence.
@Anonymous 10:32 Exactly! Was anyone else kind of jarred by hearing "Satisfaction" on Mad Men? It's hard to believe that a series that seemed to indulge in Rat Pack nostalgia takes a turn to the modern here. It makes you realize just how much time has passed. And the lyrics of Satisfaction kind of mirror Don's own writing -- you've been made to think you want something, and then you have it, and you realize it's not perfect. So you leave it, and then you miss it. You will never have satisfaction, and that's the human condition baby. May as well just learn to deal with it -- and that's the journey Don is on, at last. Betty has a parallel arc here, having gotten a man who worships her in a way Don did not on the one hand, but who does try to force her to think a little deeper on the other. She's not ready for it, but she's taking a stab at it in order to move forward.
Henry Francis is hot. I can't believe it, but it's true!
I really enjoyed this episode. When Don started journaling, I wondered if he had started some kind of counseling - as totally unlikely as that is. I was struck by how basically insecure Joan is. You can just see the differences Joan and Peggy will have in their attitudes towards the brewing feminist movement. And - I very much agree with the interpretation of anonymous @ 8:52.
I think it is interesting that Don is writing in a very elegant way, and also swimming. This seems like an allusion to John Cheever's work and career, especially his story "The Swimmer" which was released in 1966 as a film with Burt Lancaster.
Cheever documented the suburban and urban life of elites in New York in the 1950s and 60s--and is to me the classic example of a writer who found the underlying discomfort under the facade of happiness.
Even the image of Don in teh bed (like a skydiver) seems very Cheever-like in imagery.
Seeing Henry mowing the lawn in a teeshirt and grey trousers flashed me back to my youth. I remembered my dad using the pushmower dressed in old clothes. That's what suburban men did back then, before jeans were worn everywhere by everybody. They wore old clothes to do chores.
It's the little things like this that make Mad Men such a pleasure.
1) Joan may have been right about the boys perception of Peggy, but Peggy was right to fire him, which she did (as Carol in LA and others note) after he said "that is why I don't like working for a woman..."
2) There is no way Joan could fire Joey--she is administration and he was working for creative. It would be inappropriate. Peggy was his boss (somewhere in S401 it is stated that she is in charge of something at the new firm--I don't remember exactly). It is up to her or to Don to fire him. I thought she did it beautifully "Don doesn't know who you are" was a great line.
3) I wonder if he will stay fired. Remember how Jane's firing came back to bite Joan in the ***. Or it is possible that he will go work for a competitor..?
Vanessa, you're right with the reference to Cheever. I'm really liking Don finding his writer's voice and his fledgling introspection. There is so much potential there. Contrast it with entitled Roger's "Mother wouldn't let us eat chocolate ice cream because it would stain the furniture"!
And I'm ecstatic that about their use of "Satisfaction." Now it's really the '60s. Noticed the song started in the little transistor radio in the locker room before it just blasted out as Don hit the street. And it's funny to me that the episode included the swimming theme. I'm a Sally, and that WAS summer of '65 to me, days spent at the neighborhood pool, and "Satisfaction" blasting constantly.
I said it last week, and I'll say it again: Sally's parents will yearn for the days when their daughter's crush was cute Ilya Kuryakin!
I guess I am not done yet. Many seem to think that Betty still has love/longing for Don, but I think her reactions to him are anger. She wants him to suffer for hurting her, for cheating, for lying, for pretending to give her what she wanted when living a double life. No matter how "happy" she is, she does not want to see him out at an elegant restaurant with a glamorous woman having a good time, and she wants to punish him by withholding baby Gene, the baby she didn't really want to begin with.
There are also parallels in Betty and Joan's feelings about marriage. I think Joan cries in part because she does not want to be alone again. Being married to a man who is in the military means she has to go everywhere alone, take care of everything herself, be a single woman again in effect, despite her improved status by being Mrs. somebody. Betty absolutely wants to be married and have the husband and the house, whatever is takes, so she does what it takes to manage her new and ex-husbands so she doesn't lose the second one.
3) I wonder if he will stay fired. Remember how Jane's firing came back to bite Joan in the ***. Or it is possible that he will go work for a competitor..?
Joey can't offer senior management what Jane offered Roger. His belief that Harry wants him is just part of his "I'm the prettiest" fantasy.
He's freelance. He could go to work anywhere. I don't see him getting a permanent position anytime soon--he managed to annoy a lot of people & nobody was impressed by his work.
Reading through the comments I couldn't help but notice how Joan's fit triggered not only pity, but a lot of angry reactions. I did feel bad for Peggy and her attempts to help, but how else was Joan supposed to behave ? Even when she tries (and she does try, like she did at the beginning of the episode), she doesn't get the kind of respect girls like Peggy manage to get on the workplace, because whereas Peggy earned some respect step by step, Joan will never get it - they are from different "worlds", somehow. How is she supposed to react then ? All she has is her old-fashioned way of dealing with things ! She doesn't have the tools Peggy or the guys have - she couldn't have fired Joey.
On a sidenote, not a fan of the voiceover but for one episode I think they managed to make it work - and overall that was a pretty good episode to me.
I thought Joan's comments to Peggy in the elevator were spectacularly mean. Joan couldn't stand that Peggy was proud of herself in defending Joan. Joan's sad, because she can't have women friends and treats women badly in general. I didn't particularly like the voiceover but it served a purpose. Betty is such a horrible mother that Don can't help looking like a good father in comparison, even though when he lived with the kids he never paid much attention to them. And I don't know why I don't like Faye, she just seems cold. It was a good episode, but did feel a little bit of a letdown because the last one was so revealing.
Joey's remark about how Joan was just like his mom? Dude, WFT, do you have issues.
When the other guys in the room told Rizzo that "you love [Peggy]," I burst out laughing. Peggy's still got him by the balls as surely as if she had "dipped that thing in ink and [written] with it." Ha HAH.
It seems churlish to complain but 'no fair' to people on the West Coast!
It's only 8.30 here and there've already been so many comments that it seems a bit like a waste of time to contribute. But I will anyway :)
Some random thoughts.
- I don't think Joey hates all women, he just has no respect for those whose prime modus operandi is sexual manipulation. However, unlike Lane, who also didn't appreciate Joan's wiles, he doesn't realise that underneath it all she is also supremely competent at her job. (Funny that she is shown giving Lane a bj, the one man that she CAN'T influence with her sexuality).
- As Roger's power has waned, so has Joan's ability to manipulate through him and their shared history.
- I think Joey actually had a grudging respect for Peggy and her work. His mistake is in thinking of her as 'one of the guys' instead of his superior, hence his incredulity over the firing.
- Tellingly I think the other 'boys' respect Peggy too. Is it Joey who says as an aside to Stan something like 'you know you love her'?
- Joey's insults particularly struck home because they were at least partially true. Joan HAS been raped at least once and yes, she does strut around like a 'Shanghai Madam' using her sexuality to get what she wants. Joey has seen right through her.
- And even Joan's husband just sees her primarily as a sexual object.
- Stupidly I had never thought of her pen necklace as being a totally 'professional' way of drawing attention to her breasts, but of course it is. Interestingly Joan has on a MUCH lower scooped neck frilled top this week. Is she trying to dress more overtly sexily as she feels her powers wane?
- Don' apartment looked so much better now that the shades are pulled up. It seems like he's letting some light into his own life too. And women are throwing themselves at his feet again, which has to be a good sign.
- Great acting on the part of the baby, who looked away from Don the entire time he was being thrown in the air. Don has a big fence to repair there.
- Great acting also (and make up/lighting) from January Jones, who seemed a lot more lined and drawn and nervous and uptight. In the smoking scene in the bathroom, she somehow contorted her face to show off deep furrows.
And Henry Francis is realising that she is far too childish and self-absorbed to be a good political wife. She is someone else who has used her looks rather than her in this case less-than-attractive personality to get what she wants, but now her looks are fading too.
JohnG said: If they want to really be accurate to the times, people at the office should start noticing and whispering about how *little* Don is drinking. Nothing more disturbing to the alcohol culture than someone's pulling back from it.
One thing that's always felt off about Mad Men - not enough paper. There should be more magazines, newspapers (how many dailies ran in NY in 1965? How many had both AM and PM editions?), receipts, checks, calendars, spindles, etc strewn about. This was a society that ran on paper.
------------------- Great observations John. Regarding the latter, I've thought the same exact thing about the paper issue. Every desk is a little too sparse, lacking those pre-computer staples. Lots of newspapers, magazine and spindles! yes.
Relating to Dr. Faye's fable, Joan's method of handling men is the sun, and Peggy's is the wind... but this time, I think force was necessary. Joey is a little bastard and he needed to go.
Also, I feel my comment of last week that Peggy was the mouse and Don the elephant was proven correct-- did you see the gift Don brought for little Gene?
Some of you may be aware that the recap and talked about scenes for this episode were inadvertently aired on AMC earlier this week. (My husbie and I speculated about the potential reactions of Weiner and his creepy kid as we went to bed that night. "The whole family is still up, Weiner's pate is red and steaming and no one can get off the couch") And yes, I looked.
So I already knew Weiner had described this as being as close to a short story as you could get. (Or something to that effect) And like a lot of us, I was somewhat disappointed thinking it was a bit disjointed and underrevealing.
Until this morning as I was pondering everyone's thoughtful remarks regarding the attitudes of and toward and about women of the time. I was thinking of my mama and her friends ('65 High school grads) and remembering how they'd quit working after marriage, even my Braniff flight attendant aunt who adored her job once told me that in a different world she'd likely have never married or had children until her 30s if at all and that she quit because in their circle, to continue working would have cast suspicious light on one's husband and the families finances. Feeling too that sometimes Mad Men is still a bit too subtle about the differences in age (that is, what a woman in her mid 20s for instance was like then vs. now) when it occured to me that Joan, Elizabeth Taylor and MY GRANDMOTHER would all be literally within a year or two of the same age and that within 5 years they would become grandmothers in their late 30s while Joan has yet to even have children. My grandmother was from an upper middle class background with two years of college when she married but i always felt it was regarded as something of a bragging right that somehow her great beauty had expedited her own personal circle of life. Maybe some kittens even more vintage than myself could speak to this for us. I understand the Mad Men team assumes we're intelligent and well read enough to bypass the subtlety to understand how very very much the role of the main women's increasing age plays in shaping their personalities. Perhaps it was different in the cities than in my small, affluent Texas hometown (where frankly you'd still be notable for not having married/for having pursued a career/remained childless) Joan seems obviously bitter about the situation but she was in a situation where Roger's 'affinity' for her would have been understood and carried a tremendous amount of weight and reaped power that she chose instead of a traditional path, whether she was conscious of it or not. Still Hendricks once said she imagined Joan being from Washington State so wonder if those mores of the time would have been even more pronounced than are explicit.
Also I'm on the side of finding Faye just slightly less than period seeming. I almost wish they'd made her 'more' period for continuity, but hey, it's not my show! My 14 year old daughter also pointed out when I mentioned Bethany seeming a bit too modern for my taste that in the restaurant scene Betty is wearing a very stylish dress of the year but while Bethany's hair and make up are spot on, the dress might be just on the verge of dated-inadvertently giving her a more modern edge.
Sorry for rambling, we started moving this weekend, still quite stiff and out of sorts but love it if any of you ladies could speak to what Peggy/Joan/Faye etc might have really been dealing with in terms of what it meant to be a professional, childless woman of that time.
And I apologize for not reading this over better, I'm literally a mental mess! Please forgive me.
Also, was I the only one that didn't know Don's nose tap when discussing Faye's father was the international gesture for 'wiseguy'?!
Some of you may be aware that the recap and talked about scenes for this episode were inadvertently aired on AMC earlier this week. (My husbie and I speculated about the potential reactions of Weiner and his creepy kid as we went to bed that night. "The whole family is still up, Weiner's pate is red and steaming and no one can get off the couch") And yes, I looked.
So I already knew Weiner had described this as being as close to a short story as you could get. (Or something to that effect) And like a lot of us, I was somewhat disappointed thinking it was a bit disjointed and underrevealing.
Until this morning as I was pondering everyone's thoughtful remarks regarding the attitudes of and toward and about women of the time. I was thinking of my mama and her friends ('65 High school grads) and remembering how they'd quit working after marriage, even my Braniff flight attendant aunt who adored her job once told me that in a different world she'd likely have never married or had children until her 30s if at all and that she quit because in their circle, to continue working would have cast suspicious light on one's husband and the families finances. Feeling too that sometimes Mad Men is still a bit too subtle about the differences in age (that is, what a woman in her mid 20s for instance was like then vs. now) when it occured to me that Joan, Elizabeth Taylor and MY GRANDMOTHER would all be literally within a year or two of the same age and that within 5 years they would become grandmothers in their late 30s while Joan has yet to even have children. My grandmother was from an upper middle class background with two years of college when she married but i always felt it was regarded as something of a bragging right that somehow her great beauty had expedited her own personal circle of life. Maybe some kittens even more vintage than myself could speak to this for us. I understand the Mad Men team assumes we're intelligent and well read enough to bypass the subtlety to understand how very very much the role of the main women's increasing age plays in shaping their personalities. Perhaps it was different in the cities than in my small, affluent Texas hometown (where frankly you'd still be notable for not having married/for having pursued a career/remained childless) Joan seems obviously bitter about the situation but she was in a situation where Roger's 'affinity' for her would have been understood and carried a tremendous amount of weight and reaped power that she chose instead of a traditional path, whether she was conscious of it or not. Still Hendricks once said she imagined Joan being from Washington State so wonder if those mores of the time would have been even more pronounced than are explicit.
Also I'm on the side of finding Faye just slightly less than period seeming. I almost wish they'd made her 'more' period for continuity, but hey, it's not my show! My 14 year old daughter also pointed out when I mentioned Bethany seeming a bit too modern for my taste that in the restaurant scene Betty is wearing a very stylish dress of the year but while Bethany's hair and make up are spot on, the dress might be just on the verge of dated-inadvertently giving her a more modern edge.
Sorry for rambling, we started moving this weekend, still quite stiff and out of sorts but love it if any of you ladies could speak to what Peggy/Joan/Faye etc might have really been dealing with in terms of what it meant to be a professional, childless woman of that time.
And I apologize for not reading this over better, I'm literally a mental mess! Please forgive me.
Also, was I the only one that didn't know Don's nose tap when discussing Faye's father was the international gesture for 'wiseguy'?!
Some of you may be aware that the recap and talked about scenes for this episode were inadvertently aired on AMC earlier this week. (My husbie and I speculated about the potential reactions of Weiner and his creepy kid as we went to bed that night. "The whole family is still up, Weiner's pate is red and steaming and no one can get off the couch") And yes, I looked.
So I already knew Weiner had described this as being as close to a short story as you could get. (Or something to that effect) And like a lot of us, I was somewhat disappointed thinking it was a bit disjointed and underrevealing.
Until this morning as I was pondering everyone's thoughtful remarks regarding the attitudes of and toward and about women of the time. I was thinking of my mama and her friends ('65 High school grads) and remembering how they'd quit working after marriage, even my Braniff flight attendant aunt who adored her job once told me that in a different world she'd likely have never married or had children until her 30s if at all and that she quit because in their circle, to continue working would have cast suspicious light on one's husband and the families finances. Feeling too that sometimes Mad Men is still a bit too subtle about the differences in age (that is, what a woman in her mid 20s for instance was like then vs. now) when it occured to me that Joan, Elizabeth Taylor and MY GRANDMOTHER would all be literally within a year or two of the same age and that within 5 years they would become grandmothers in their late 30s while Joan has yet to even have children. My grandmother was from an upper middle class background with two years of college when she married but i always felt it was regarded as something of a bragging right that somehow her great beauty had expedited her own personal circle of life. Maybe some kittens even more vintage than myself could speak to this for us. I understand the Mad Men team assumes we're intelligent and well read enough to bypass the subtlety to understand how very very much the role of the main women's increasing age plays in shaping their personalities. Perhaps it was different in the cities than in my small, affluent Texas hometown (where frankly you'd still be notable for not having married/for having pursued a career/remained childless) Joan seems obviously bitter about the situation but she was in a situation where Roger's 'affinity' for her would have been understood and carried a tremendous amount of weight and reaped power that she chose instead of a traditional path, whether she was conscious of it or not. Still Hendricks once said she imagined Joan being from Washington State so wonder if those mores of the time would have been even more pronounced than are explicit.
Sorry for rambling, we started moving this weekend, still quite stiff and out of sorts but love it if any of you ladies could speak to what Peggy/Joan/Faye etc might have really been dealing with in terms of what it meant to be a professional, childless woman of that time.
And I apologize for not reading this over better, I'm literally a mental mess! Please forgive me.
Also, was I the only one that didn't know Don's nose tap when discussing Faye's father was the international gesture for 'wiseguy'?!
Some of you may be aware that the recap and talked about scenes for this episode were inadvertently aired on AMC earlier this week. (My husbie and I speculated about the potential reactions of Weiner and his creepy kid as we went to bed that night. "The whole family is still up, Weiner's pate is red and steaming and no one can get off the couch") And yes, I looked.
So I already knew Weiner had described this as being as close to a short story as you could get. (Or something to that effect) And like a lot of us, I was somewhat disappointed thinking it was a bit disjointed and underrevealing.
Until this morning as I was pondering everyone's thoughtful remarks regarding the attitudes of and toward and about women of the time. I was thinking of my mama and her friends ('65 High school grads) and remembering how they'd quit working after marriage, even my Braniff flight attendant aunt who adored her job once told me that in a different world she'd likely have never married or had children until her 30s if at all and that she quit because in their circle, to continue working would have cast suspicious light on one's husband and the families finances. Feeling too that sometimes Mad Men is still a bit too subtle about the differences in age (that is, what a woman in her mid 20s for instance was like then vs. now) when it occured to me that Joan, Elizabeth Taylor and MY GRANDMOTHER would all be literally within a year or two of the same age and that within 5 years they would become grandmothers in their late 30s while Joan has yet to even have children. My grandmother was from an upper middle class background with two years of college when she married but i always felt it was regarded as something of a bragging right that somehow her great beauty had expedited her own personal circle of life. Maybe some kittens even more vintage than myself could speak to this for us. I understand the Mad Men team assumes we're intelligent and well read enough to bypass the subtlety to understand how very very much the role of the main women's increasing age plays in shaping their personalities.
Sorry for rambling, we started moving this weekend, still quite stiff and out of sorts but love it if any of you ladies could speak to what Peggy/Joan/Faye etc might have really been dealing with in terms of what it meant to be a professional, childless woman of that time.
And I apologize for not reading this over better, I'm literally a mental mess! Please forgive me.
Also, was I the only one that didn't know Don's nose tap when discussing Faye's father was the international gesture for 'wiseguy'?!
Some of you may be aware that the recap and talked about scenes for this episode were inadvertently aired on AMC earlier this week. (My husbie and I speculated about the potential reactions of Weiner and his creepy kid as we went to bed that night. "The whole family is still up, Weiner's pate is red and steaming and no one can get off the couch") And yes, I looked.
So I already knew Weiner had described this as being as close to a short story as you could get. (Or something to that effect) And like a lot of us, I was somewhat disappointed thinking it was a bit disjointed and underrevealing.
Until this morning as I was pondering everyone's thoughtful remarks regarding the attitudes of and toward and about women of the time. I was thinking of my mama and her friends ('65 High school grads) and remembering how they'd quit working after marriage, even my Braniff flight attendant aunt who adored her job once told me that to continue working would have cast suspicious light on one's husband and the families finances. Feeling too that sometimes Mad Men is still a bit too subtle about the differences in age (that is, what a woman in her mid 20s for instance was like then vs. now) when it occured to me that Joan, Elizabeth Taylor and MY GRANDMOTHER would all be literally within a year or two of the same age and that within 5 years they would become grandmothers in their late 30s while Joan has yet to even have children. My grandmother was from an upper middle class background with two years of college when she married but i always felt it was regarded as something of a bragging right that somehow her great beauty had expedited her own personal circle of life. Maybe some kittens even more vintage than myself could speak to this for us. I understand the Mad Men team assumes we're intelligent and well read enough to bypass the subtlety to understand how very very much the role of the main women's increasing age plays in shaping their personalities.
Sorry for rambling, we started moving this weekend, still quite stiff and out of sorts but love it if any of you ladies could speak to what Peggy/Joan/Faye etc might have really been dealing with in terms of what it meant to be a professional, childless woman of that time.
And I apologize for not reading this over better, I'm literally a mental mess! Please forgive me.
Also, was I the only one that didn't know Don's nose tap when discussing Faye's father was the international gesture for 'wiseguy'?!
Some of you may be aware that the recap and talked about scenes for this episode were inadvertently aired on AMC earlier this week. (My husbie and I speculated about the potential reactions of Weiner and his creepy kid as we went to bed that night. "The whole family is still up, Weiner's pate is red and steaming and no one can get off the couch") And yes, I looked.
So I already knew Weiner had described this as being as close to a short story as you could get. (Or something to that effect) And like a lot of us, I was somewhat disappointed thinking it was a bit disjointed and underrevealing.
Until this morning as I was pondering everyone's thoughtful remarks regarding the attitudes of and toward and about women of the time. I was thinking of my mama and her friends ('65 High school grads) and remembering how they'd quit working after marriage, even my Braniff flight attendant aunt who adored her job once told me that to continue working would have cast suspicious light on one's husband and the families finances, when it occured to me that Joan, Elizabeth Taylor and MY GRANDMOTHER would all be literally within a year or two of the same age and that within 5 years they would become grandmothers in their late 30s while Joan has yet to even have children. My grandmother was from an upper middle class background with two years of college when she married but i always felt it was regarded as something of a bragging right that somehow her great beauty had expedited her own personal circle of life. Maybe some kittens even more vintage than myself could speak to what Peggy/Joan/Faye etc might have really been dealing with in terms of what it meant to be a professional, childless woman of that time and the difference in a woman of that age then vs now.
And I apologize for not reading this over better, we started moving house this weekend, I'm literally a physical/mental mess! Please forgive me.
Also, was I the only one that didn't know Don's nose tap when discussing Faye's father was the international gesture for 'wiseguy'?!
Everyone mentions what a bad mother Betty is. In 1965, I was 9, My dad was 36 and my new step mom(with a temperment like Bettys) was 24.It was not the Brady Bunch! Betty is extremely fortunate she did not have any of his kids moving in with them.
Thank you for your recaps TLo, you always have astute observations. I liked this ep a lot, actually. Are Don's mid-life maunderings mundane? Sure, but then life is mundane - I thought the Don expressed his thoughts well and even touchingly.
Ok, I have a confession - I hope I won't have to turn in my TLo Unborn Fawns badge because of it, but....I'm not a huge Joan fan. To me she's a volcano of unexpressed rage and class/sex resentment. Her sex appeal is calculated, the only weapon she thinks she has. She reminds me of women who expect to coast on their looks, which Joan certainly has. A lot of the character's appeal has to do with Christina Hendricks zaftig gorgeousness - or at least I hope so because otherwise her popularity suggests a retrograde desire to be taken care of because you're pretty.
Ohmygosh, is there a way to delete these 9 gillion duplicated comments? I kept getting an error message as I posted and yet, here they all are. Yikes! -Cake
Certain things don't change, and one of them is the way men fight. This episode made me so sad because it brought to mind an incident, not as destructive as Joan's and not as important in terms of my position in life, but still. But still.
When my older son was in Little League, we moms (and dads, too, but it was mostly the moms) staffed the snack bar in team rotations. I had the early shift and had just put the coffee on when one of the obnoxious fathers ordered a cup.
When he was told it was still brewing he made some sort of snide remark -- nothing sexist, just snide, but I can't recall it exactly -- and I replied something along the lines of the snack bar's opening at 8 and it takes time for the coffee to perk.
His reply was the stock "Can't you take a joke?" put-down. I swear if I weren't well-brought up (a curse, sometimes) and if we didn't live in such a litigious society (and he a lawyer!), I would have spilled the coffee onto his pants, and at his first word, I would have asked, "Can't you take a joke?"
I should have at least spilled the coffee on the counter and said, 'oh, I'm sorry, let me get you another,' and gotten it very slowly.
But other than console myself with these scenarios, I have prickled whenever I hear 'can't you take a joke?'
Something terrible about myself: I read a few years ago that this man died, fairly young. I couldn't muster up the slightest feeling of sadness for his wife and kids who were very nice people. It was like when Lee Atwater died. Not to take pleasure, but still. But still.
Loved Sally's sly little wave at the end, when Don enters the room.
Also thought Henry was a little nervy to ask Don to move his things from the garage so he could put in his new boat. Ha. How about you buy the garage first? Doesn't Don still own half the house?
Would a girl like Bethany really do that in the back of a cab in 1965? I know oral sex isn't a recent invention but I thought girls were a LITTLE more inhibited back then?
I'm going to come back later and read every comment, as I usually do, but let me say right now, and I apologize if someone else has said it, but I want to personally thank each and every person who worked to get laws passed prohibiting sexual harrassment in the workplace. I mean, I've worked in offices, and it's not like I don't know how ugly some undercurrents can get, but to be reminded of how rough it can be without such laws simply makes me grateful.
Frenchie said: I did feel bad for Peggy and her attempts to help, but how else was Joan supposed to behave ? Even when she tries (and she does try, like she did at the beginning of the episode), she doesn't get the kind of respect girls like Peggy manage to get on the workplace, because whereas Peggy earned some respect step by step, Joan will never get it - they are from different "worlds", somehow. How is she supposed to react then ? All she has is her old-fashioned way of dealing with things ! She doesn't have the tools Peggy or the guys have - she couldn't have fired Joey.
I think Joan's problem is that she could have the tools that Peggy does if she ever chose to use them. Peggy is right that Joan and Lane run the place, and even if Joan didn't have explicit power to fire Joey herself, a single straightforward complaint to any of the partners would have gotten the job done. Preferably they would even give her the authority to fire him herself, as Don did with Peggy. Joan is too reliant on her old methods, which are hopelessly out of date. We saw it earlier in the season when she tried it with Lane.
The little pep-talk that Don gave to Peggy about demanding respect is also something that Joan needs to hear, although with a slightly different twist. Joan has always been able to demand respect through a combination of desirability, poise, and ability to get the job done in a way that pleases everybody else. Now a new day has dawned, and it requires a more upfront and forceful manner.
I also thought that part of Joan's bitchy response to Peggy in the elevator was frustration because she does see things changing, sees Peggy gaining power, and doesn't know what to do about it. She tells Peggy how she could have/would have handled Joey, but she had been trying (once with Don, once with Lane) and wasn't making any headway. She chastised Peggy for making her "appear" weak, but knows deep down that she actually is weakening, so all the more venom directed toward Peggy. That sounded more profound in my head before I typed it all out - sorry if I am just repeating other posters!
I agree with comment about being gobsmacked by Henry's temerity in demanding Don remove those boxes from the home he owns as a mere tenant. Further illustrates Don's adultness in this episode.
I agree also that these thoughts sound so. dang. profound. in my head before they hit the thread. (6 times, so sorry)
Also, I clearly am the only one who'd never noticed the nose bend gesture as 'wiseguy.' Makes me wonder what else I've managed to overlook in 41 years, yeesh!
-Cake (who is off to get a proper account for posting purposes as penance for my blogging down the thread this morning, hopefully that will give me powers of deletion!)
I actually kind of liked the voice over because it's the first time we really see Don trying to look inward and figure out what he feels. He's always been very reactive.
As much as Joan's situation hurt in this episode and as sad I was to see all these things come crashing down around her, I also really wished someone would smack her. She was more obnoxious than she's ever been in some parts of this episode, and I was gritting my teeth every time she spoke to Peggy.
Good episode nonetheless, though no where near as great as last week's.
@aim -- Your mother and mine should get together for coffee sometime. I remember being told regularly when I was in high school that I was too picky about boys, and what difference did it make if I really liked them, they might take me somewhere fun or introduce me to someone else.
To which my response was that I could take myself anywhere I wanted to go, and why would I want the kind of guy that tries to hit on someone else's date?
I also got the line about being too bossy fairly regularly because I saw no reason why I should date a guy that didn't meet my standards.
Mary said..."Preferably they would even give her [Joan] the authority to fire him herself, as Don did with Peggy."
Don did not give Peggy authority as a gift--It was her job--he reminded her that she had to take responsibility for firing people who work for her if they step over the line. He could have done it (since he is her boss and thus senior to both Peggy and Joey in the Creative division of the agency).
I see another way to view this episode. The images of Don swimming and being like a skydiver when sleeping underscore the way that his divorce has freed him. He is reinventing himself and he has the opportunity to do that, unlike the women of that time, who celebrate the high points of other’s lives (birthday party, going to work dinner) but are themselves trapped in the rooms of the Barbizon, atomized (one to a room) and put on the shelf for purchase (Joan has been on the shelf too long).
I don’t think Betty is in love with Don, I think she is incredibly jealous of the life that he has now -- dating and living in the city and being able to be the fun parent while she is stuck with the work (making the cake while he gets to eat it). Francis is realizing this as well, as he is pushing the lawnmower while Don is much more mobile in his car. He is realizing that he has signed up for lots of work at home literally and figuratively while Don is free to work at his career (not coincidental that Francis’s job prospects are tied to Betty). Betty doesn’t want to have Don, she wants to be Don (remember the hook up in the bar). Note she didn’t’ mention that to Francis when she said that Don was her only. Betty’s “We have everything.” is ironic because she does have everything and it is weighing her down while Don has nothing and so he can fly. Lily
Don did not give Peggy authority as a gift--It was her job--he reminded her that she had to take responsibility for firing people who work for her if they step over the line. He could have done it (since he is her boss and thus senior to both Peggy and Joey in the Creative division of the agency), but all lane or Don could have Don was to tell Joan to inform someone that they were being fired. There is a difference.
@Cake - While professional women are more common and accepted now, a woman in her mid-30's without children STILL faces a lot of judgment in many places. Especially if her career doesn't fall into a handful of categories like doctor or lawyer, important enough to allow your childlessness to be overlooked.
I also felt the show was a bit of a shift, which may be all to the fact that the ground has shifted under all of them. Sexism in the workplace (and everyone I know at my age -- 54 -- has had it), but the scene between Joey and Joan was shocking to me, to hear those words. Hearing Faye shout "Go shit in the ocean!" made me laugh, since in Yiddish, the expression "Gay kocken afen yam!" was one my grandmother taught me. Obviously, a lot of viewers wouldn't have gotten the Yiddish, but it would have been entirely appropriate for this Jewish doctor to let loose with it. Excellent analysis, as always!
My husband had an insight about Joey's over-the-top misogyny.
We both noted that up until last night's episode, Joey has been relatively likable.
My husband pointed out that at the beginning of last night's episode, several men are trying to fish candy out of the machine, and they discuss how Joey has "the smallest hands." The fight with the candy machine is a bit of a masculinity test: who's strongest? Who can lift the machine? Joey has small hands but can't lift the machine.
Also, one of Joey's colleagues goes on and on (I think it's the first scene?) about how good-looking he is and Joey complains that some old queen is always coming on to him.
That background explains why Joey goes thermonuclear with the misogyny in last night's episode: he feels that his lack of masculinity has been exposed.
I think he's acting out of gay panic. He crudely parodies hetero sex because he has no interest in it himself (or fears that others think he lacks interest in Joan's cleavage) -- hence the need to insist so loudly on it.
I think I'd like Faye if she was played by somebody else. That actress's style of acting just doesn't fit with the show's tone, and it takes me out of the story.
Loved seeing Betty and Henry happy at the end. I really like those two together.
I also think that Joan rejects Peggy's help because Joan -- like everyone else at the time -- hates women. Joan doesn't want to be part of a powerful sisterhood, because she believes that women can only be sexpots or shrews, not each other's allies.
Joan wouldn't join any club that would be willing to accept her as a member.
The more I see this show, the more I respect Peggy. I don't know whether it's her working class, Catholic background, or just her inherent grace and intelligence, but more and more, Peggy weathers the insults and childishness of those around her with compassion and dignity.
I also like the fact that as Joan gets less attractive (she really is starting to look more upholstered than dressed) Peggy is coming into her own as a beauty.
paola said...Great acting on the part of the baby... HA!!
This is one of the few blogs where commenters use words like temerity and untenable, and I thank you all for the thoughtfulness that is put into so many of the comments. It adds one more terrific dimension to an already excellent show.
Quick note with my opinion about the "would people act this or that way in 1965" comments - especially with regard to sex. I was wacthing 1964's Sex and the Single Girl last night before Mad Men. It's a poorly written and badly acted "comedy" starring Tony Curtis, Natalie Wood, Henry Fonda and Lauren Bacall. I was struck by the relatively modern look of the clothing and some of the sexual attitudes. Nothing completely shocking, but a good reminder to me of the changes taking place in society even before Woodstock, the British Invasion and the other usual cultural markers.
Some of the sexual innuendo in old Hollywood movies from the 30's & 40's is also pretty wild stuff. Pre-Hayes Code pictures are a real eye opener. I still stumble across old movies from time to time where a line of dialogue surprises the hell out of me and makes me laugh out loud at the sexual frankness.
A bit of basic training foreshadowing, perhaps? I don't think MM would be that blatant, but the thought of Dr. Greg and friendly fire made me cheer a bit.
@Kat Galore: "On the other hand, the "Peyton Place" scene with Joey could've been just to show the irony of Joey thinking he was sexually harassed, when in fact he's the harasser."
Good catch on that parallel!
I also thought of the "skydiver" and the falling through the water as a reflection of the opening credits.
It's hard to see Joan become less likable. in a late 50s, early 60s context, I respected how she'd found her way. She had power when that wasn't easy to get. But now she seems like what I've always called "boy girls"--women who can only relate to men, and only through flirting. They're dismissive of other women b/c they can't be manipulated with a wink and some cleavage.
But they're giving us back Strong Don, maybe we can get back Strong Joan, too!
yikes, did anyone else notice that in the overhead shot of Don enjoying his sleep alone, he's in the same position as the falling man in the opening creds?
Oh, and meant to add: I think part of what makes Bethany feel too modern is her speech. Something about her accent or way of speaking just sounds too current. Can't put my finger on it. Any linguists out there?
And yes, Bill, I love that I can get more out of the comments here than I get out of 3 or 4 postings by Slate writers.
Anon @ 1:22 said Don did not give Peggy authority as a gift--It was her job--he reminded her that she had to take responsibility for firing people who work for her if they step over the line. He could have done it (since he is her boss and thus senior to both Peggy and Joey in the Creative division of the agency).
You're right, and I should have been more clear. I just meant that Don sort of gave Peggy permission to fire him - not because she officially needed Don's approval, but because I don't think it had occurred to her that she could really do that. I mean, maybe she knew that technically she could, but she has never exercised that kind of power over another person, male or female.
What's interesting is that Joan has. We've seen her fire secretaries, so she's used to wielding that particular hammer of authority. But, like Peggy, if she did have that kind of official authority to fire a man in Joey's position, I don't know if she would be able to bring herself to do it. I think in her own mind she is still just a "lowly" secretary. And the funny thing is, I get the feeling that she probably does wield enough authority among the people that matter at SCDP that she could fire a freelancer because of his crappy attitude and be completely justified.
Think of it this way: If Joan had actually told Joey he was fired, and Joey went crying to Don like he claimed he would with Peggy, do you really think that Don would gainsay Joan's decision? He trusts that Joan knows what she's doing when it comes to running the office. I honestly believe that he would defer to her judgment.
Peggy and Joan are both being given new and exciting career opportunities, but while Peggy is making the most of her by being flexible and learning as she goes, Joan can't quite figure out how to adjust to the new rules. It's frustrating, yet fascinating, to watch.
I've been waiting for someone to mention the final scene where Don is holding baby Gene, who seems to not all know this man and is wondering why his mom handed him over to him. This is reinforced in one of the pre-show flash-backs where Don is picking up the kids, except for Gene, and telling Betty that he'd like to see him. It's obvious that Don and Gene have had no bonding time together.
And I don't think it's a case of not being able to get a two-year-old to "act" for the cameras. I feel it was a very conscious decision of the director to show that this baby has absolutely no connection with his father.
Melissa said: I think I'd like Faye if she was played by somebody else. That actress's style of acting just doesn't fit with the show's tone, and it takes me out of the story. ********************** I'm with you. I don't care for the character or the actress playing her. She's distracting but not in a good way. I think she's miscast here. Her tone and vibe absolutely do not fit for me either.
(1) Don pushing his nose out of the way -- I took this to be some sort of reference to the mafia/mob. But others are saying it means wiseguy??
(2) Is Dr. Miller really supposed to be Jewish? (since she used a Yiddish phrase) I didn't get that before. Given how racist everyone was to the Menkens, I would have thought there'd be a lot more comments about her religion if that were the case.
(3) I may be the only one, but I don't hate Greg. Yes, he made a huge mistake back before he and Joan were married. But, I think he's proven himself to be at least a husband who loves his wife and is trying to be good to her. If he dies and leaves Joan a widow, it'll be very sad.
(4) What was with the Margaret Mead comment? I know who Margaret Mead is, but I didn't get the reference.
Joan doesn't have any women friends at work because she's spent so much time lording her power over them in the workplace and, in some ways, devaluing them.
Good for the writers for planting the seed for this storyline back when Lane said Joan's charms didn't work on him.
Oh, Don. He's trying so hard! He's even eating now if you dare call Dinty Moore food.
I thought this was a perfectly nice episode. Not a favorite, but still resonated with me.
I think my favorite part was the final swimming scene, when Don uses all that he has to pull ahead of the younger man in the lane next to him. And then, the young man just lunges back into the water, ready to go again. Don's too old, too beat up for that. Too old to just start over, he's got to deal with the hand that's been dealt to him.
Also, my heart broke for Joanie. She's going through her own mid-life crisis, similar to Don. Her old weapons don't work anymore either. And while a man can have a sort of rebirth in his middle age, it's not the same for women, especially in 1965.
It's almost like we're seeing Joan's demise as we see Don's resurgence. It wasn't too long ago that they were equals, is their own way.
All in all, I'm excited to see what next Sunday brings! What a terrific season.
"I agree with comment about being gobsmacked by Henry's temerity in demanding Don remove those boxes from the home he owns as a mere tenant. Further illustrates Don's adultness in this episode."
I saw it more as Don's realization and willingness to admit that that portion of his life was over and that he was moving on. It corresponds with all the new light and clensing in this episode.
Paula -- I agree completely that when Don was talking about baby Gene he was also thinking about himself as a child. He really doesn't want Gene to have the kind of childhood Don had. I was so happy that he went to Gene's party anyway.
I have to feel sorry for Joan. She has no real friends and doesn't seem to know she could use some. Often really beautiful women see others as competition and don't trouble to learn friendship skills. It's only when they're older and their beauty doesn't attract men so much that they become aware of just how alone they are.
Henry said he would put the boxes in storage and deduct the cost from the rent. Presumably they are now tenants in Don's house. They aren't living there for free--and they are only living there because Betty won't leave.
Paula -- I agree completely that when Don was talking about baby Gene he was also thinking about himself as a child. He really doesn't want Gene to have the kind of childhood Don had. I was so happy that he went to Gene's party anyway.
I have to feel sorry for Joan. She has no real friends and doesn't seem to know she could use some. Often really beautiful women see others as competition and don't trouble to learn friendship skills. It's only when they're older and their beauty doesn't attract men so much that they become aware of just how alone they are.
"Betty’s “We have everything.” is ironic because she does have everything and it is weighing her down while Don has nothing and so he can fly."
I couldn't help remembering a scene from several season back where Peggy was fighting her way up and being scolded once again by Don in his office. She was feeling that life was unfair and said to him ruefully , "You have everything, and so much of it". She would have been surprised at the time to know how little Don really had.
Bill said... Some of the sexual innuendo in old Hollywood movies from the 30's & 40's is also pretty wild stuff. Pre-Hayes Code pictures are a real eye opener. I still stumble across old movies from time to time where a line of dialogue surprises the hell out of me and makes me laugh out loud at the sexual frankness.
Hello Bill, Like yourself, I LOVE Pre-Code movies. Have you checked out the Pre-Code Hollywood DVDs that are available at Turner Classic and Barnes&Noble? They are real gems to watch.
I liked the furhter glimpse we got as to what exactly Joan's position is with SCDP. I found Peggy's line that "Joan and Lane pretty much run the company" to be very telling.
Sounds like Joan is the 60's version of an HR director. Did they have those in the 60's? OR was that kind of position just coming to be? Sorry, child of the 80's asking.
Jessica said: (2) Is Dr. Miller really supposed to be Jewish? - I am beginning to think that yes, she's Jewish in Gentile clothing. The Yiddishisms (said in a "private" conversation), the "wise-guy" reference to her shop owner father who isn't in the mob, but is mob-adjacent; the broadening of her accent. Her upward mobility via intellect and a good education (as opposed Peggy who didn't go to college, but uses her native smarts to get ahead). She's got something to "hide" and Don is drawn to that. And, perhaps without knowing it, he's drawn to her "outside-ness" as he was to Rachel Menken. Henry Francis may have hated Nazi's, but not necessarily out of love for the Jews and in the 60's, Jews were still definitely outsiders.
(4) What was with the Margaret Mead comment? I know who Margaret Mead is, but I didn't get the reference. - I think it meant that Peggy was observing "men as apes" in their habitat - using physical prowess to hunt for their prey and best each other.
Paula -- I agree completely that when Don was talking about baby Gene he was also thinking about himself as a child. He really doesn't want Gene to have the kind of childhood Don had. I was so happy that he went to Gene's party anyway.
I have to feel sorry for Joan. She has no real friends and doesn't seem to know she could use some. Often really beautiful women see others as competition and don't trouble to learn friendship skills. It's only when they're older and their beauty doesn't attract men so much that they become aware of just how alone they are.
Too funny that Betty and Bethany (even similar names!) were dressed and coiffed to be almost twins. Although Bethany took it as a good sign, I think that moment probably sank her chances with Don. Talk about your life flashing before your eyes!
Harry's office -- what's up with that? I thought he and Joey were meeting in some hotel somewhere from the look of the furniture, but when the camera panned back it was the same fabulous SCDP that everyone else inhabits.
It was great to see Francine again. Didn't know if we would ever be so lucky again. She's a doll.
Can't believe baby Gene is already 2! I was thinking it must be his 1st birthday. It really has been a long, hard fall for Don Draper since the divorce.
Joan's best days are behind her. Her poor husband will be one of the first casualties of the war. And Henry is going to conk out in the bedroom with his shrill little plastic wife Betty.
Didn't study any anthropology so I was inspired to learn more about Margaret Mead today. I'm thinking Weiner has probably read a lot of her work. One of her quotes -
"What people say, what people do, and what they say they do are entirely different things. "
Itsjustme - Absolutely hotel furniture! I was wondering if Harry swiped the furniture from the hotel suite they worked in when they first started the company. (Maybe he really IS a cheapskate!)
The only friend Joan has at work is Roger. And now her husband's away, and he's generally discontented with his life. I predict some rekindling there.
Lattis said... "I didn't even know Don's apartment had windows!" ***************************************************
I know, really! For a moment, I actually thought Don was sitting somewhere else, like a cafe or coffee shop (like a Starbucks, circa now).
A good episode, but not great. It did have some wonderful moments though. I like the idea that they're finally getting to how Don and Betty are actually "feeling" as opposed to "doing" since their divorce. Life goes on, but I think there are still unresolved feelings on both their sides.
Margaret Meade was an anthropologist who studied Samoan culture. She lived among the Samoans but was able to look at them from a social scientist's perspective, just as Peggy is observing the men.
I believe Peggy is simply referring to the situation of watching a totally foreign culture participate in its rituals.
Peggy's family haven't given her something to build on. They've given her something to consider and reject. That she can do so is a testament to her strength as a person, not to their treatment of her or their "superior family values". Her sister does seem to genuinely love her though, and if she doesn't quite understand, she at least tries. Her mother is very busy proclaiming the rights of the matriarch. I know the types. Regrettably.
In those days, HR was called Personnel. The Director of Personnel was a department head, and the power of the position probably varied with the company.
I can't recall when it changed -- I think the mid-seventies -- but I remember thinking Human Resources??? It sounded so ridiculously pretentious.
I think Faye's accent is a tip-off of her Jewishness. Very much the professional, like Rachel Menken, they both inhabit a world where Jewish women were expected to be educated, if not necessarily have a career outside the home. The "go shit in the ocean" comment definitely places her, since I've never heard anyone who isn't Jewish say it! Her clothes aren't "gentile" to me; these are clothes that my mom and her friends wore in the 60s. As an outsider himself, I think Don is definitely attracted to Jews. Remember in the first season, he was reading "Exodus" to prepare for a possible Jewish client. The casual anti-Semitism in the series bothers me when I hear it, but that's the way it was in the workplace. I loved how Danny gave it right back to Harry last week about the fight tickets. Thanks, anonymous, for answering the Margaret Mead question. I was about to go on some long-winded explanation about "Coming of Age in Samoa" and "Sex and Temperament in Three Primitive Societies," but it wasn't necessary. Mead was a cultural anthropologist who explored a range of sexual and societal behaviors in different cultures, and Peggy is savvy enough to have known about Mead's work when watching her co-workers act in their unruly urban hunting-and-gathering mode (for themselves, of course).
Just one tiny addition to add to the thoughtful, reflective conversations: I loved that Don literally brought the elephant into the room when he entered Gene's birthday party. Why only have one looming elephant when you could have a cute, stuffed one, too?
These MM posts are the best part of my Monday. Thanks to TLo and everyone for the insights. Jules
I'm thrilled that Don's journal is largely mundane! It reminds me of the journal I decided to keep when I was first pregnant. I had grand hopes of pithy insight, beautifully expressed, but in the end it deteriorated to how much weight I was gaining and what I was eating and name choices.
Don's occasional insights ring truer because of all the chaff, I think. Maybe it's just wishful thinking given my own poor performance.
Okay, I totally did not get this until after reading through the comments. I got Joey's projection of Joan as his mother based on similarities between his mom and Joan, but what I didn't realize watching the show is that maybe the scene where Joey claims there's always some old fruit trying to come on to him was projection as well. Is it possible that Joey's father (with the fabulous, sexual goddess of a mother who wears a pen pendant around here neck so men will look at her tits) is playing on our team? Was that telling us Joey's dad is an old flamer? If not, that whole scene between Joey and Harry doesn't make any sense to me (unless it's merely to show that Harry's about to go full-on Hollywood and leave the firm).
Oh Shannon, I agree with you absolutely, there is still very much that sentiment around where unmarried/childless (or even just childless) women are concerned. I remember attending my 20th high school reunion several years ago...no one batted an eye at our classmate being a prominent lesbian commercial producer but that another classmate was an unmarried teacher was met with a literal chorus of 'oh, that's too bad'
Also slightly off topic and not...I ran into a former coworker of mine earlier (I worked in newspaper advertising, he was in news) told me (as we discussed Mad Men, of course) that when Gloria Vanderbilt gave birth to Anderson Cooper, there was concern that running it as a news item here in St louis would be 'unseemly' given her age (mid 40s)
After watching this episode I want to state for the record that there should be a scene every week with Jon Hamm tossing a baby around, looking as happy as anyone could be and the perfect picture of fatherhood.
I cannot believe noone here seemed as creeped out as I did by Sally's pathetic little wave. I feel so anxious for where they're going with this character.
You know what this episode made me nostalgic for this week? The fact that you could just fire someone for whatever reason whatsoever. The fact that if someone were not performing to standard you could fire them without having had to file "incident reports" and prove you'd had to talk to them on numerous occasions in your office (with another manager present) over egregious behavior, etc. If someone drove everyone nuts and noone got along with (thereby creating a less productive workplace) you could just fire them without having to worry about the inevitable lawsuit that would arise nowadays. And for those of you who are thinking of getting on here and posting that there was no job security, just stop. There may be many laws and regulations that keep this thing from happening now and yet, even now, in the time we live in, job security is little more than a myth. I'd take my chances back then. You did your job and you got to keep your job. You earned your paycheck. Nowadays, everyone who shows up have a sense of entitlement to their paycheck. They think coming in to work is enough whether they do any work or not. And if you don't believe that you've never worked in a service industry where you could only laughingly refer to the "work ethic" of the students and young people entering the workforce.
I know Joan is having a rough time now and people are predicting her husband's death in Vietnam. I'm more afraid he'll come back with Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome. Can you imagine the horror of that?
I would have more respect for Joan's viewpoint if in fact she had been at all effective. Instead, her attempts to undermine Joey by deflecting her negative opinions onto others were completely dismissed. And yelling at a bunch of guys "I hate you and I wish you were dead!" is not "handling it" -- it's having a tantrum, no less childish and no more productive than Betty's.
Thanks to those who pointed out that "go shit in the ocean" is translated from the Yiddish. When Dr. Faye revealed her dad was mob-connected, I was all, "Huh? But her name's Miller, she's not Italian." But there were indeed Jewish mobsters, so now it all makes sense.
However, I don't believe that a professional woman would shout "go shit in the ocean" in a phone booth outside the door of one of her clients.
9/13/10, 4:25 AM
First!!!
9/13/10, 4:27 AM
Yes, it's childish, but I've never had a first before. I feel all special.
Thanks for putting in the time to get this up so quickly, boys. I'm amazed you had time to watch the episode, let alone discuss it, with all you've got going on. You really never do sleep, do you?
9/13/10, 4:29 AM
I wasn't sure about how I felt about Faye at first, but now I'm kind of loving her. She's just what Don needs. And I was definitely shouting at my tv through Joey's epic douchiness. I never thought he could be THAT bad. *shudders* I felt triumphant when Peggy fired his ass. A new regime's in town boys, and it don't take your sexist shit.
9/13/10, 4:34 AM
I'm starting to like Faye now too not just for the shit in the ocean line but what she says right before it too: "I don't want you complaining that I don't cook because I DON'T cook!" Or something like that.
-Denise
9/13/10, 4:37 AM
I agree with so much of what you say, T Lo, but I liked this episode more than you. The shades are up in Don's apartment, he's out in the light, he's swimming! He put on those aviators and he was cool again. And I like how he's an effective mentor for Peggy. That's so valuable and also quite rare, probably even more so in 1965. I wasn't crazy about the writing/voiceover though. I'd rather discover what Don is thinking on my own.
The sexism in the workplace? Yeah, that resonates as does how it puts women in a no-win position. Joan really is old school and that's not always a good thing, but both she and Peggy were right.
I wasn't so clear on why Faye decided to drop her rule about getting involved with clients. It seemed a little too convenient. I did love that the fable showed Don a better approach to dealing with Betty. I may be a sap, but my guess is that if he stays with being the sun instead of the wind, Betty is going to want him back. And unlike almost everyone else on the planet, I might be okay with that.
9/13/10, 4:39 AM
You guys are up really early. Or late. This is an unexpected treat...
Watching 'Mad Men' often feels to me like reading (or watching) a novel. And this felt decidely 'Cheever-esque'. I'm not usually for voiceovers, but I loved the pacing of the narrative with swimming pool intervals and the Hitchcock- blonde-in-the-back-of-the-cab rides. The 'Stones at the beginning was so unexpected, I was actually thrilled. It sort of reminded me of Tom Ford's "A Single Man" as well.
My heart breaks for Joan--rough, rough waters ahead for those who resist change. Betty was heart-breaking too: Don is like the phantom limb after an amputation.
Does Stan Rizzo have any real function? Ugh, he's untenable.
9/13/10, 4:43 AM
damn did Joan's husband Greg look good last night. I want to climb on that and ride him all the way to 1974.
9/13/10, 4:47 AM
Dammit, I was dying to see a powderroom confrontation between the past Mrs. Draper and the thinks-she's-about-to-be-the-new-Mrs.D. Did you see how smug she looked when she realized they were both icy blondes with updos? You can see the wheels turning, "I'm a newer model of that." I'm so glad she can make him "comfortable" but I doubt she'd ever know how to make him happy. Get over yourself, honey, other girls are going out there and making incredible new lives for themselves instead of catching a man to marry and take care of everything for them. "You want some respect? Go out and get it for yourself."
9/13/10, 4:49 AM
I have to say the more scenes I see of Henry in the garage (there are now TWO very significant scenes. Although this scene was sadly passive/aggressive, his staring at the "Draper" boxes seemed important.), the more convinced I am that he's gonna end up dead, blue and bloated in that garage.
9/13/10, 4:50 AM
If it's a choice between reading Roger's memoir and Don's book, I'm sorry to say that Roger's will win every time: maybe not poignant, maybe not beautiful as well as meaningfull, but loads more fun.
9/13/10, 4:59 AM
I have to disagree with your assessment of Joan's dressing down of Peggy. I think everything she said could be taken literally as true, but at the same time I have to say to me it mirrored her other message in this episode. Joan tells the men when they're dying in the jungles of Vietnam, that they're not dying for her as she couldn't give a f***. I think there's a bit of mirroring going on here with Peggy as well. Yes, she may be telling Peg that now she'll be seen as ineffective and Peggy will be seen as a humorless bitch. Yes, Joanie's power is waning, how I feel for her when this little prick brings her to tears. But she also seems to be saying to Peggy that Peggy didn't do this for her (and on some level I think Peggy did this for the sisterhood of women, not just for herself), but that Peggy did this for herself. She took matters into her own hands (as Don advised), but she did it because she wanted to and for her own ends. And isn't it sad that the advice Don gives doesn't work for women in this man-dominated world? He says, just go out and get the respect you want. But does it work for her? No, ultimately it will, but in the here and now, Joan hates her for "rescuing" her and the men all see her as a spiteful bitch, not as a person who deserves to be treated with the respect she asks for and then demands.
This was in no way the powerhouse that last week's episode was, but I think there was a lot of deep, significant content this week.
9/13/10, 5:07 AM
My best (Jewish) GF called laughing hysterically after hearing Dr. Faye yelling at her soon-to-be ex on the phone. It seems that "go shit in the ocean" is the literal translation of a Yiddish phrase that my friend's grandmother would scream at her grandfather when really pissed.
9/13/10, 5:09 AM
i found it so telling that henry would mow the lawn (don's former lawn) shirtless...especially when he knew don would be there to pick up his baggage. such an odd display of territorialism, especially from one paying rent to the EX!
like peggy said, i felt like margaret mead!
9/13/10, 5:10 AM
and i hope this new Don isn't just a seasonal phase as the title seems to suggest.
9/13/10, 5:11 AM
I wasn't expecting this episode to top last week's, so this episode did me fine. After last week I just kept thinking, I just want to poke my head in and see how it's going and that's what this episode did. Of course the drinking is going to get out of control again, but I'm glad he's trying. I'm glad he realizes he needs to try.
How did Joan not slap Joey's face when he made that rape comment? What an asshole douchebag piece of shit! Where do the writers even come up with lines like that?
I'm glad Peggy fired that little shit and Joan will just have to get over it. That behind the scenes, manipulative "womanly wiles" way of handling things still goes on and it's just so dishonest. I understand why it went on back then, but the fact that it still goes on is a sad commentary on how women deal with men and with each other at work.
Also, I want Sal to come back SO BAD! If they can hide him from Lee Jr., or get enough business to lose Lucky Strike and Roger and not give a shit...that would be awesome. Roger is useless to them except for an account that's going to be useless to them very soon.
I don't know that Faye and Don will go anywhere in the long run (although I think it would be great if it did and men are constantly getting women they don't really deserve), but I'm really liking them together for now. She works magic on his usual reticence.
Do you think it was significant that the closeup was on Peggy taking a drink in Don's office when he was struggling with whether to take a drink or not?
9/13/10, 5:16 AM
confession time: every time Don contemplated drinking, I would scream "No, Don! Don't give in!"
.....
then take a swig of my cocktail...
9/13/10, 5:38 AM
I really enjoyed this episode, but I have to say--as unpopular as this will be--I really intensely dislike Joan. I hate her power-of-the-sexpot attitude and her constant bitchiness to Peggy. That's the kind of woman--well, ONE of the kinds--who has held women back. Also, I find it disgusting that Christina hendricks has said in interviews that she admires Joan's way of getting things done. Really? What century are we in?
it's a testament to the writers and to hendricks, too, that as much as I abhor Joan, I can't help but feel heartbroken for her. As beautiful and sexy as she is, those tools have failed her: she didn't snag the rich, successful man she always wanted. And now she's aging, and young assholes like Joey can treat her badly. It's tragic.
9/13/10, 5:42 AM
Two thoughts:
1. Are we sure Don's voice-over said "I want to be that man?" I watched it twice and that's what I heard the first time, but the second I heard "I *don't* want to be that man" (drunk, unhappy).
2. I'm curious if Don still has his infamous box of secrets, after seeing him throw away so many belongings. He doesn't seem to have many personal items in his apartment... would he have had the opportunity to take the box (and the money) from the desk? Was it in one of the boxes he tossed? It's such an important relic for him but I wonder if he would have wanted to keep it in his new home when it was responsible for the downfall of his marriage.
9/13/10, 6:11 AM
At first I distrusted the journaling ploy by the writers, but they sold me because what Don writes is so spare and dead on. He says it all in so few lines. (He never graduated from high school!) Don does already know Bethany, and she'll never know him because she is too young, sweet, and self-absorbed. Kinda like Betty except for the young and sweet part. BTW, since I had my captions turned on (seriously, DO THIS), I got Bethany's parting line as she exits the cab: "To be continued" but somehow I doubt that, especially since Dr. Faye looms large, an actual grown up woman with a brain AND a heart (as opposed to being childishly self-absorbed.)
And Joey needed firing badly. (So does Stan.) But Joan was right in the elevator, she could have arranged for his job loss but she handled it appropriately for the times, using the power she actually has. Peggy wants to be seen as the heroine for all her sisters in the office, but she really fired him because he insulted her, not Joan, and she possibly created a monster in the process. It's even possible that had Don himself fired him specifically for sexual harassment (a term not in use at the time), that he still may not have accepted his responsibility for losing his job. It's only 1965, and people didn't have their job status threatened over that kind of behavior until well into the 70's or even the 80's in some places. And perhaps even into the 21st century.
The parting shot of a sober, fit, smiling Don taking delight in being with baby Gene, is a luminous example of why viewers love the Bad Boy, and why Betty isn't even close to being over him.
9/13/10, 6:16 AM
Was it just me or were Henry's and Faye's NY accents turned up a notch in this episode?
The first episode I can remember Miss Blankenship being played as a human being with some competence and awareness rather than an extra from a sitcom. Now that Don is trying to turn his life around, I guess we don't need her camping it up to show us him enduring his punishment? It reminds me of when they gave Animal a backstory on Lou Grant and started calling him Dennis. Please, no "very special episodes" where 1) she adopts an orphan, 2) dies, only to have the office discover what an amazing person she was, or 3) have 4 different people bringing her a turkey for Thanksgiving.
Also interesting how she offers to buy a present for baby Gene, and Don turns her down. Wasn't gift-buying something Allison used to do for him as uber-perfect-simpatico-secretary-girl?
If they want to really be accurate to the times, people at the office should start noticing and whispering about how *little* Don is drinking. Nothing more disturbing to the alcohol culture than someone's pulling back from it.
One thing that's always felt off about Mad Men - not enough paper. There should be more magazines, newspapers (how many dailies ran in NY in 1965? How many had both AM and PM editions?), receipts, checks, calendars, spindles, etc strewn about. This was a society that ran on paper.
Peggy was way too smug in the elevator; she was trying to pull a guy-like "Did you notice how I just defended your honor ma'am? You may gush and thank me now." Poor Peggy, the more she rises in a man's world, the less she'll be one-of-the-girls.
9/13/10, 6:24 AM
It is interesting, even though a bit cliche, how Joey's attitudes about women are so freudian. His references that his mother was a "Joan". His contempt for her was truly ugly. It's like Joey sees women like Joan as Nurse Ratchett that need to be destoyed or knocked down. It kind of explains his initial embrace of peggy. He like the rest of the men, did not perceive her as sexual and therefore did not feel threatened by her.
How interetsing was that scene with harry? Joey's perception that it was another come-on by some male predatory. makes me wonder if Joey might also be a closet case or at least was sexually abused. I realize that last part is kind of reaching and meandering
I agree that in a way both women were right and both were wrong in how to deal with Joey. To our modern eyes shit-canning Joey was the right thing to do. His actions were insulting and disrespectful. But as noted Don's advice just would not completely work in this scenario. Sadly that action will cause some resentment amongst the men for Peggy and Joan loses some of their respect for her as well as her power.
The irony is Peggy is the first person to openly articulate an important fact about Joan. She and Lane run and maintain the company. Plain and simple. Joan is considered important by the TBTP just by the presence of an office. However all the non-execs, even peggy, don't fully appreciate that.
Sadly I think the best case scenario for the Joey situation would have for Lane to walk in during the whole sketch debacle and openly given Joan the power to fire the person she found out responsible for that piece of work. Lane may be a man but he would not tolerate crap like that.
Lane wouldn't exactly be rescuing Joan but laying down the law about who is in charge where it really matters.
FRank
9/13/10, 6:30 AM
Forgot to mention I sgree that Betty's reaction to Don's date was understandable. She's got major baggage with Don. He was her first love. She was and still is in love with him.
At least she has some self-awareness about that. Of course the extra frustrating element is this is all compounded by the issue of Dick Whitman. Someone thing she cannot discuss with anyone. If she could she likely could move on from Don. The fact that she hasn't told henry the whole truth shows she still has some regard for husband #1.
It was nice to show Henry with some normal petty emotions.
Frank
9/13/10, 6:33 AM
Sorry 1 last followup. It's too early or late
I wonder what would have happened if Peggy thought to discuss the Joey situation with Joan first instead of isntinctually running to Don?
I do have to say I did like how Peggy told Joey that Don didn't even know he existed. How true, how true
Frank
9/13/10, 6:48 AM
Was anyone else haunted by the lack of music at the ending credits?
I loved Don's writing/voiceover. For me, I felt more intimate with his character.
9/13/10, 7:01 AM
i definitely felt haunted by having no ending credit music...especially after i googled the background song to the party.
"big rock candy mountain" was originally was a hobo's ballad, but since had become a sanitized song for kids.
9/13/10, 7:06 AM
If Peggy had gone to Joan about the situation, she's have gotten a bitch comment but no real interaction. I'm not sure we've ever seen Joan and Peggy have anything resembling a real conversation...a civil one, anyways.
other than their obvious differences, I wonder why that is. Is Joan unwilling to let other women close to her?
9/13/10, 7:22 AM
"That's my ex-wife, her new husband and some poor schmuck who's going to have a miserable dinner." (or something like that)
I did feel for Betty, and whatever her motivation, I'm glad she did the right thing at the end. In an episode where people are resisting and/or succumbing to change, she's not faring terribly. Henry's not half bad for her-he refuses to play (so far) childish games with her, but he's awfully passive aggressive and being growly at Don attending BabyGene's party was disturbing.
One thing I have to mention - one of the things I love about this show is how much Jon Hamm loves kids! It just leaks out of Don, like when he was playing with BabyGene, all silly and unaffected and the older kids, too. The throwaway scene a few seasons back when Betty dropped the kids off at the hotel, and he & Bobby were eating the hamburger was adorable. Hamm's past job taking care of kids is plainly evident and is beneficial to rounding out Don's character.
I really liked the ep. I've been worrying about Don being on the brink of fogeydom & irrelevancy (as Roger & Joan), as he seems to be ambivalent to the times. Last night, as he stepped out of the gym, he seemed to be getting with the program, seeming to see babies, Blacks & beautiful women in a fresh light.
Kudos also to Hamm & Moss for injecting a subtle dose of intimacy to their scenes, based on last week's events.
9/13/10, 7:24 AM
OK, how are you guys doing this? Do you stay up and write these wonderfully insightful recaps right after the show? Don't get me wrong, I LOVE it, and I thank you for it, and it totally feeds my love of the show. I'm just wondering about your method and what drives you to put in the effort when most of us have closed the light for the night.
9/13/10, 7:30 AM
I woke up thinking I'd have to wait all day for this post (my work blocks your blog :( but then YAY! You guys are up early - and it's delightful! Great post.
9/13/10, 7:42 AM
Damn you Blogger and your 503 "Service Unavailable." I assure you that I was brilliant, brilliant and now I'll just be all bullet point observation-y...
I loved that when Don first swims, he is coughing and sputtering and gets a "Are you okay sir?" and in the end is racing a younger guy.
Heartbreaking to see that Joan has no one but Dr. Rapist. And Roger, bless her heart.
So frustrating to not be able to say "this is sexual harrassment!" and shut those trolls down. And sad to see that what had been the lighthearted boys-at-play goofing I'd enjoyed so far was much darker at its root. I blame Rizzo. Joey was cute until HE came along. And sadder still to realize that Joan was right--now she looks like just some secretary and Peggy will be seen as a humorless bitch.
Bethany made Don wait and now he's making Faye wait.
Didn't like the voice-over. Clunky, un-Don-like. But I trust the show to make it work.
I felt like the "when you die in Vietnam" speech fell flat. It felt desperate, like it was all Joan had.
They are padding Joan, right? her ass looked...don't want to say huge...like the ass of a non-actress.
Loved that establishing shot outside the NYAC--it's The 60s! Stones music, cool shades, black people who aren't working for white people!
This was an episode about women's changing roles, even though it was almost all from Don's POV.
Thanks, as usual, lads. I'm glad that our contributions to your Red Bull fund were not in vain. Now I have to go make a skirt with contrasting inset pleats...
9/13/10, 7:43 AM
When Joey was in Peggy's office, there was a moment where he (in a very patronizing way) put his arm on Peggy's shoulder. My blood was already boiling from everything he had said and I yelled, "HIT HIM!!"
Although I understand Joan's response to Peggy, I was frustrated by it. While Peggy had her own reasons for doing it, I think she truly did feel upset at how Joan was treated. She sticks up for Joan earlier in the episode, saying that she runs the office and deserves respect. I think that Elaine is onto something about how Joan won't let other women be close to her or help her.
I wonder how she would have reacted if Don or Roger had done the firing.
9/13/10, 7:45 AM
Of course after the masterpiece that was "The Suitcase," whatever follows is bound to compare as a bit of a letdown. Still, there were lots of little gems in this ep.
When Betty said to Henry, "We have everything," it was a callback to earlier in the episode when Don wrote, "We're flawed because we want so much more... we're ruined because when we get these things, we wish for what we had." To me, this was a portent that there are some rocky times ahead in the Francis marriage, as if we didn't already know.
For an episode called "The Summer Man", in which Don gets his adult on, so to speak, the episode was rife with childish behavior and temper tantrums. Henry was right when he called Betty out for acting like a child in the restaurant, so it was amusing to see him turn around and act the same way when he bashes his car into Don's boxes and refuses to acknowledge Don when he comes to pick them up and continues to silently mow his lawn, marking a territory that really belongs to Don.
In contrast, the children's party seemed downright demure. I noticed how Sally sat playing with Gene like a little lady-mommy- and the way she limply & wistfully waved at Don made my heart break a little.
The ep was rife with bookends: the first swim scene where Don comes up sputtering, to the final one when he edges out the younger man in the lane next to him (with the one in the middle when he starts to sink á la "A Single Man"); the contrast between the two cab scenes.
The episode began with the Stones' "Satisfaction." Can the fact that it ended without music signify that Don is finally getting some?
It absolutely resonated with me every time Peggy was called out for having no sense of humor ("a pioneer in the science of wet blanketry")by the "boys-will-be-boys." I can't tell you how many times those insults were thrown at me in the 80s & 90s whenever I took umbrage at a dirty joke.
Joan sobs when her husband tells her she can talk to her friends at work. It's sad that she cannot recognize that she really could have a true friend at work in Peggy if she would only let down her guard. But that's how it was then- women in the workplace were suspicious of other women- and still are to a degree.
9/13/10, 7:46 AM
Peggy has always looked up to Joan from day one of the show. Joan knows this & always uses it to try to take Peggy down a notch. Joan seems to have no close female friends-she always has to be the alpha, feared & adored & lusted after. The thing with Peggy is that she never was scared of nor tried to emulate Joan so Joan's put-downs perplex her, but don't demoralize her, which irritates Joan even more.
Peggy's situation with Joey was tough even w/out the sexual politics. She has worked so hard just to get equality with the guys in the office and but now, she's their boss. Joey had to be fired for insubordination, no matter what his crime - he refused to take responsibility & make things right. Joan might have been correct about Peggy being perceived as a humorless bitch, but as the boss, that was bound to happen anyways.
9/13/10, 7:46 AM
Of course after the masterpiece that was "The Suitcase," whatever follows is bound to compare as a bit of a letdown. Still, there were lots of little gems in this ep.
When Betty said to Henry, "We have everything," it was a callback to earlier in the episode when Don wrote, "We're flawed because we want so much more... we're ruined because when we get these things, we wish for what we had." To me, this was a portent that there are some rocky times ahead in the Francis marriage, as if we didn't already know.
For an episode called "The Summer Man", in which Don gets his adult on, so to speak, the episode was rife with childish behavior and temper tantrums. Henry was right when he called Betty out for acting like a child in the restaurant, so it was amusing to see him turn around and act the same way when he bashes his car into Don's boxes and refuses to acknowledge Don when he comes to pick them up and continues to silently mow his lawn, marking a territory that really belongs to Don.
In contrast, the children's party seemed downright demure. I noticed how Sally sat playing with Gene like a little lady-mommy- and the way she limply & wistfully waved at Don made my heart break a little.
The ep was rife with bookends: the first swim scene where Don comes up sputtering, to the final one when he edges out the younger man in the lane next to him (with the one in the middle when he starts to sink á la "A Single Man"); the contrast between the two cab scenes.
The episode began with the Stones' "Satisfaction." Can the fact that it ended without music signify that Don is finally getting some?
It absolutely resonated with me every time Peggy was called out for having no sense of humor ("a pioneer in the science of wet blanketry") the "boys-will-be-boys." I can't tell you how many times those insults were thrown at me in the 80s & 90s whenever I took umbrage at a dirty joke.
Joan sobs when her husband tells her she can talk to her friends at work. It's sad that she cannot recognize that she really could have a true friend at work in Peggy if she would only let down her guard. But that's how it was then- women in the workplace were suspicious of other women- and still are to a degree.
9/13/10, 7:52 AM
Sorry for the dual posting-it was a computer glitch (Error 503).
9/13/10, 8:03 AM
Joan reached the apex of her power in the scene at the Clios, where she simultaneously held hands with both Don and Roger--the perfect mother/wife easing the concerns of her two boy/men needing nurturing. Throughout the remainder of the Clio scenes, she milked that moment--cajoling, scolding, humoring, playing the perfect hostess. Her final golden moments.
(Sidebar: That purple dress that Joan wore at the beginning of the decade--though not recognized at the time--may well have been a signal of her coming slide from power.)
While Joan was spending her powers, Peggy was beginning to discover the full force of her strength.
Locked in a hotel room with Stan on Clio day, Peggy stewed, angry and jealous--angry that her contribution to the winning ad hadn't been acknowledged, jealous that she hadn't been invited to the award ceremony. Her anger, hurt, envy combined with Stan's goading, seemed to open up a door in her mind. In typical Peggy fashion, minus fanfare and visible emotion, she asserted herself--called Stan's bluff by stripping naked and calmly demanding that they go on working.
Fast forward to last night's episode: Joan reacted to Joey's drawing in typical Joan fashion--she was emotional, matriarchal; her words had no real impact on the men she challenged. An ineffectual performance straight out of the fifties.
Contrast that with Peggy's performance in firing Joey. Authoritative, unemotional, totally in control of both the situation and her feelings: "Don doesn't even know who you are." "It's just a job, Joey. Get over it." Peggy's no one's mother, no one's wife. She's the boss. A bitch? Perhaps. But bitchiness, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.
Both women have a tough road ahead. Joan will seek solace, reaffirmation in Roger's bed. Peggy, like most women of her time in that place, will need to rely primarily on herself. Will she continue to have the backbone for it?
One other thing: Up thread, someone lamented that Peggy would lose her place as "one of the girls". I think that being one of the girls is on neither Joan's nor Peggy's to-do list--for very different reasons.
Jillian
9/13/10, 8:07 AM
Im glad you brought up that Joans way of handling the problem of joey was to go out with a big shot and connive him away. or the "people are complaining" ruse. THat she ripped on Peggy in the elevator annoyed me. Joan is jealous of Peggy - hence that little dig about walking around her office because she could "use it". yeah, Peg, youre on your way to big shottiness but you arent a SHANGHAI MADAM LIKE ME. LOL!
Im glad they gave Joey that line. I felt it all the way through the TV. Ouch.
I could do with out Henry and Betty Francis. Boy did she ever go from the pan to fire...now shes got political ambition to endure. Dipshit. and i kind of find Henry repulsive. I felt happy for DOn when i saw Henry out mowing the lawn .
I sort of dont like Faye either....maybe it was her bad bad bad date hairdo. man o man dippity doo got a work out. i will always like Rachel Menken the BEST.
thanks TLo for an awesome monday morning coffee read.
9/13/10, 8:08 AM
Brilliant as always, TLo.
I always suspected (and certainly hoped) that Don and Faye were going to end up together, but before that could happen Don was going to have to take his pickled head out of his arse and patch together enough of his higher self to even attempt a relationship of real value (as valuing relationships is not something Don has ever been good at, even Roger saw that). I was therefore encouraged by last night's episode, and really like where Don and Faye are headed. Again, it could crash and burn a la Rachel Mencken (after all, this is DON we're talking about), but hopefully his "been there, done that" fear of repeated failure -- and Anna's death -- will give him enough fuel to move beyond where he's come from -- in more ways than one.
Best line of the night has to go to Peggy: "I feel like Margaret Mead." I howled.
9/13/10, 8:11 AM
I really liked this episode. I hope Betty gets her head out of her ass about that house. She needs to get out of it. I can't believe they are still there. It's weird.
I'm glad Francine isn't giving Betty the Helen Bishop treatment, because I love that actress. Did anyone ever see her in The Book Group? Not the best show, but she was good in it.
9/13/10, 8:17 AM
If Don can cut back on his drinking and wake up and go work out than i can______. (fill in the blank)
9/13/10, 8:32 AM
Love your synopsis-as always! I really feel this season's major thesis is "generation" It keeps coming round and round. Yes, Poor Joan is being cornered out( her figure is going to be so out of date by 1966 with the Twiggys), but she still manages to grasp what's ahead with the Vietnam speech. Those pampered boys have no clue what's ahead for their generation! And Betty got "bitch slapped" with her age also! She's no longer the prom queen, and she knows it. I've said before- our Betts is NOT going to age well. Bitter seems to be the tone. Peggy is the torch-bearer for future women of the 80's. Pete is tuck in the middle.And, I really do feel, that there is going to be another break-off with a move to California-next season, if not this one. Well I'm finished rambling now!
9/13/10, 8:34 AM
I agree that this episode felt a little flat to me. I din't really care for the voice-over and other than finding out that Don didn't graduate from high school, I didn't find his musings particularly interesting or insightful.
Joan is clearly on a downward arc, at least in terms of her power within the culture. Her manipulative methods as an aging sexpot will beocme increasingly ineffective. She seemed to think that if she just could work her magic on the right client that they would get Joey fired. But I doubt that would work. She went to Don and to Lane with her "there have been complaints" bit and got nowhere. Lane seems to respect her but is also impervious to her old-fashioned, manipulative way ot doing things.
For some reason I just can't warm up to Dr. Faye. Her backstory seems somewhat similar to Peggy's - a working-class, outer borough ethnic (with a dad with some ties to the mob, no less) who is charting a new course for herself. I should like her but I just don't. And her accent, which was always present, seemed much stronger last night.
9/13/10, 8:38 AM
Okay, I'm posting this before I read your commentary because I wanted to get my three favorite lines out there.
1. Hands down, Pete Campbell's single appearance in the episode: "When did we get a vending machine?!"
2. Francine--"Oh, Betty, you have terrible luck with entertaining." Among other things!
3. Don: "It's Gene's birthday." Miss Blankenship: "Would you like me to buy him or her a gift?"
And I thought that little monologue Joan had about Vietnam was just chilling. Like, I want to cheer for her for telling them off so completely, but at the same time, what she said was kind of awful.
9/13/10, 8:41 AM
My favourite line was definitely Peggy's "It takes three drinks to make a cocktail. Vodka and Mountain Dew is an emergency".
9/13/10, 8:49 AM
When Don said “he was conceived in a moment of desperation, and born into a mess” -- did it seem to anyone else like he was describing his own beginnings (not just baby Gene's)?
9/13/10, 8:49 AM
This was another dark episode. I really enjoyed Peggy firing Danny the little shit. What a big man, he had to dump folders all over the floor. And I loved seeing Joan in so many scenes.
I love Dr. Faye too. And how annoying would it be to have an attendant in the bathroom when all you want is a good cry?
9/13/10, 8:51 AM
Absolutely spot on analysis of the Joan vs Peggy approach to power, and the down side of each one. The sea change in women's place in the world from then to now cannot be underestimated!
9/13/10, 8:52 AM
Sorry, but you got the Peggy--Joan thing all wrong fellas. Joan is the quintessential queen bee, the woman who sleeps with the boss and is rewarded, not with real power, but with control over other women. Remember how she treated Peggy's first promotion. She was pissed. Joan does not like other women. They are her competition. Peggy, on the other hand, does have power, albeit small and given grudgingly, but real nonetheless because she's good at her job. Other women are Peggy's friends not her competition. She righted a wrong on principal. Joan is threatened by Peggy because she has no control over her anymore.
9/13/10, 8:52 AM
So depressing how much sexual harassment and competition with other females I deal with at work.
I just got fired from a job recently and I'm not sure why but I would put a large part of the blame on the fact that my boss was racist and sexist. I got hit on regularly by customers and the like and I complained to my boss and his response was essentially I should be happy because it means i'm pretty and it's a compliment. It wasn't nearly as bad as anything joey or stan say but it was still out of line and as a manager he shouldn't ignore those kinds of issues.
Also the competition of females like peggy vs joan etc is so rampant and obvious even today it's just ridiculous. I've never made friends with a girl at work before. I can hang around with all the guys and they treat me well. Girls have always treated me as if I'm incompetent when I generally do not have ill feelings towards them. Girls also tend to take advantage of the emotional feelings at work rather than superior skill. Girls that succeed in my experience normally have a "relationship" with male or female managers, sexual or friendship, instead of succeeding solely on the merits of their work.
9/13/10, 8:57 AM
My favorite line- Faye on her father:
"He's a handsome two-bit gangster, just like you."
9/13/10, 9:01 AM
Oh and one more thing about Joan....anyone who works in an office knows that she is the "office wife," the woman who caters to the men because they are the husbands. She does all the "wifely" chores including supervising the "help," in this case, the clerical staff. If anyone is a humorless bitch, it's Joan, not Peggy.
9/13/10, 9:04 AM
What was up with that bizarre scene with Harry trying to get Joey to try out for Peyton Place?
I'm afraid were not done with Joey yet and that he is going to someday reappear to exact his revenge.
9/13/10, 9:06 AM
Not quite relevant to this post, but could you guys do some features on Alison Brie's red carpet looks?
9/13/10, 9:08 AM
Also loved when Joan yelled at Peggy to stop using her office as a short cut. I had to do the same thing a few months ago. It didn't bother me the first 3+ years, but it started driving me crazy.
9/13/10, 9:11 AM
Really? you didn't like that episode? really?
I thought it was really good. The fact that Don had a little electricity pumping through him for a change made the whole show hum. I hated each commercial interuption!
and the Peggy firing and Joan weighing in... Peggy was of course flummoxed by Joan's anger. But Peggy could have said "I didn't fire him to protect you. I fired him because he was a shit on many levels and we can do better here." And Peggy would have said that to many people. She just knew that it wasn't helpful to say it to Joan. Peggy is getting wiser and wiser.
9/13/10, 9:13 AM
meliasaurus said...
Girls that succeed in my experience normally have a "relationship" with male or female managers, sexual or friendship, instead of succeeding solely on the merits of their work.
===========
While I wouldn't condone sexual relationships in the work place--they can make for really messy office politics--having a mentor, someone who has your back, is a practical and often useful strategy.
Jillian
9/13/10, 9:13 AM
So many thoughts I think I can only comment by bullets:
Obviously both Joan and Peggy are right. Peggy is the voice of today and Joan the voice of yesterday of course, but I think also that part of what is so insulting to Joan is that Peggy tells her in the elevator not out of a sense of sisterhood solidarity, but also bit boastful. She's proud of being modern and having the power to fire a man. The little upstart that Joan had to show the ropes became her uninvited savior and is now furthering the humiliation by rubbing her face in it. I don't think she was doing it to be mean, but Joan has had enough humiliation for one day.
Bethany/Faye/Betty all seem like variations of the same woman. I'm sure that's intentional. Not wonder after Don says, "I already know you." he asks Faye out to dinner.
What a smug, entitled little bastard Joey is. He mistakes Harry's Hollywood preening is him trying to come onto him and calls him a fairy, he insults Joan, previously he signed the card without donating and seems ready to slack off at the drop of a hate. I cheered when Peggy fired him.
Joan had on another version of her spinster outfit in the blue, high waisted pencil skirt and hideous blue floral top.
Peggy had on yet another cute, dress. I guess making more money agrees with her, she's certainly dressing better and we haven't seen a sad perter pan collar in a while.
Betty looked younger and prettier than she has all season and yet she still somehow came off as looking much older than Bethany at the restaurant.
Henry is such a passive aggressive jerk. So apparently they are now paying Don rent. Still he takes his anger at Betty out on Don first by running into his boxes then getting them out the garage all together by lying about a boat.
9/13/10, 9:16 AM
I really enjoyed this episode. I liked the voice over by Don and I really liked the way Henry Francis handled Betty in the car--telling her among other things, to grow up and responding "I hate Nazis" in response to her adolescent mewing of "I hate him" (meaning Don). Me thinks Mr. Francis is starting to feel the impact of his momma's insightful comment of "Henry how can you stand living in that other man's dirt?" Betty may very well end up alone, twice divorced, bitter, alientated from her children and living off alimony in much reduced circumstances if she doesn't "grow up".
9/13/10, 9:18 AM
what was going on with Crane and Joey? I didn't get that part, going to have to watch it again.
9/13/10, 9:19 AM
Doesn't Joey say something like "boy I really got you all wrong" when Peggy fires him? She should have said he got him all wrong too. I know I did. Until last week when he wouldn't clean up his own mess, I thought he was an okay guy. I thought Stan was the bigger problem. Turns out they're all bad.
Didn't Stan use the term poontang? I didn't realize it was that old. Any naughty word etymologists out there want to give us unborn fawns the skinny on that word? I know I'm curious.
9/13/10, 9:20 AM
OMG, a recap already! Thank you!!!
I did really like this episode, voiceover and all. Don trying to self-analyze? That could only be good.
And I thought that Betty's behavior at the end was a true sign of maturity, not a pretend one. Perhaps Henry is that good an influence on her. No??? The wistful look she gave Don when he was holding Gene made sense, too. It would have been perfect if he had been the kind of exemplary husband and father she imagined but he wasn't, so... Doesn't mean she can't grieve for that ideal a little.
9/13/10, 9:23 AM
Something just occurred to me. After firing Joey, Peggy immediately took Stan off the account he'd been working on, assigned him to Mountain Dew.
In the Waldorf episode, Don pointed out to Peggy that Stan carried the greater weight, and Peggy needed to learn to work with him.
A change we didn't witness, but a big one.
Jillian
9/13/10, 9:27 AM
I agree with previous poster Elaine in that I am not a Joan fan at all. Her nasty reaction to Peggy was borne out of embarrassment and the reality that Peggy is becoming more powerful and independent. Joan has been used to getting her way with men and women, and she's totally lost control with Peggy.
9/13/10, 9:33 AM
To Ms. Guided:
Yes, poontang appears to be in the vernacular by the 1960s.
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Citations:poontang#English
9/13/10, 9:33 AM
Denise said...
I'm starting to like Faye now too not just for the shit in the ocean line but what she says right before it too: "I don't want you complaining that I don't cook because I DON'T cook!" Or something like that.
============
I love a woman who refuses to cook. I tried it once--attempted a grilled cheese sandwich. The toast burned. The cheese refused to melt. Couldn't figure out why that happened. Hate to feel stupid. Moved on to more fulfilling endeavors. Have managed to stay away from stoves since. It's nice.
Jillian
9/13/10, 9:41 AM
Betty is jealous of Don's freedom when she sees him the restaurant (and of course, his Betty.2 date). Henry is jealous of his freedom later on. He is literally mowing the other man's lawn. I though that was kind of an in your face allegory. Dick/Don picks up the cartons and tosses them. Goodbye old life! Old barriers! He considers that Gene likely thinks that Henry is his father, calls him Daddy. Then he returns to hold his son. Betty cleaves to Henry out fear and looks at Gene and Dick/Don with envy again.
Joan only needs to look to Mrs. Blankenship to see her future. The best case scenario for our Joanie is to be widowed and find love with Lane. That is if she can handle a man who doesn't swoon at the sway of her hips and baby doll voice, but loves and respects her for her ability and talent. While the ever capable Joan is oft admired, she does have a very weak petty character flaw-- the need to put down other women around her from the lovely girl Paul was dating (her racism was small and mean) to the insensitive treatment of the secretaries at the old firm (crying in the bathroom is against the rules) and the treatment of Peggy. "You arent' much." She literally doesn't seen anyone in a room unless they are male. Additionally, her method of asserting control in the office was made vis a vis-- sleeping with the boss. To think she would prefer to put up with the Joeys of the office than to accede another woman in the office has power. Perhaps the prostitute reference wasn't off the mark as her way of handling problem is to use sex to influence a man who wields power (I'll wash your back....)
Christina Hendricks and Elizabeth Moss did a wonderful job-- As has TLo-- thanks very much for this quick post, I was very surprised to see it up so early.
9/13/10, 9:42 AM
Three thoughts: I don't think Joan needed "rescuing" from the Joey situation. She used to cut Paul Kinsey down if she could. And Joey initially attacked her with exactly the same tactic Paul did-Joan's age(she's the madam, not the hooker). Second, the scene with Harry, I thought, was to highlight Joey's inability to perceive accurately and that inability will get him shot down. Third, Harry always talks about Peyton Place, but he never seems to use it for real work. A big contrast to Joan's ability to figure how to sell advertising time on As The World Turns in season 2.
9/13/10, 9:43 AM
The whole joan/peggy thing was incredibly frustrating to me. Joan would have been fine with either Don or Lane taking care of Joey, since she took her "some complaints" line to them both. The fact that Peggy did it wasn't acceptable to her, since Peggy is, of course, a woman. You are so right that she is old-fashioned, trying to deal with this with her feminine wiles, instead of directly.
I am really not looking forward to seeing more such misogyny on the show, even though I know that behavior like this continued well into the 80s, until "sexual harrassment" actually turned into a thing with teeth. Makes me weep for the women of the time.
9/13/10, 9:44 AM
I thought it was a very hopeful episode (for Don, but not for Joan, of course). I like the sassy Faye, but I doubt they'll go far together since she is based on a real person. Also, Don realized Bethany would be a repeat of past mistakes. Although, I thought Bethany's "her?!?!" was more in awe of Betty, not competitiveness. Notice how she perked up and seemed more eager to please Don all of a sudden? Before she may have thought him to be a bit of a sad sack. It was an odd sort of girl crush sort of thing.
9/13/10, 9:45 AM
Said once & referenced again:
Girls that succeed in my experience normally have a "relationship" with male or female managers, sexual or friendship, instead of succeeding solely on the merits of their work.
Peggy's always had her special relationship with Don, renewed just last week. No, it isn't sexual--but it's definitely helped her career.
Joan doesn't have girl friends? Well, neither does Peggy. Don't think she's all that close with Rasputin the Roommate. Maybe she'll revisit the Downtown Crowd.
I can see both Peggy's & Joan's side on that conversation in the elevator. But it's too bad they've never had a chance to really talk about work & men; both of them are pretty reserved around the office. And Peggy has just reminded Joan that she's an underling. (A very vulnerable Joan--whose sometimes-dreadful husband was the closest she had to a friend.)
Oh--"poontang" was definitely in common usage back then. I remember it!
I was very glad to hear "Satisfaction." It fit & that song really was "everywhere." (I liked the Stones & my sister was a Beatles fan. Of course, I could listen to her records as well as mine. The Beatles were just about to evolve beyond cute moptops.)
9/13/10, 9:50 AM
Keep in mind that Peggy started the confrontation with Joey by telling him to apologize to Joan. If he had gone along, she may not have fired him. It was his disrespectful response to her and her realization that he wasn't going to change that made her fire him.
I didn't like Joan's response at all, although I understand it. The sad part is, Joan doesn't know that Peggy told Joey that "Joan and Lane run the place." Peggy does respect Joan, but Joan's envy of Peggy's rise doesn't allow her to see that.
9/13/10, 9:55 AM
Although it looks to the rest of the office that Peggy fired Joey in defense of Joan, she didn't fire him until he disrespected HER. When he wouldn't do as she demanded, that he apologize to Joan, the only way for her to maintain her own power in the situation was to fire him.
9/13/10, 9:56 AM
If Betty isn't over him, then she's a bigger masochist than he is. That was one ugly marriage. They're poison together.
9/13/10, 9:57 AM
I really enjoyed this episode. Joan SO reminds me of the very first "queen bee office manager" I worked for in the 60's. She dressed like Joan and even had a pen hanging from a pin instead of a chain. The rumors were so rampant that she was sleeping with the married exec VP of our office and had been for years.
These were the days when the VP came around, handed us our paychecks, patted us on the head and was a condescending SOB.
9/13/10, 10:01 AM
@Annon 6:48. YES!
I said, "Hey. Where is the music? WHERE IS THE MUSIC?"
ha
9/13/10, 10:01 AM
What was that bullshit Betty fed Henry about Don being the only man she'd ever been with?
9/13/10, 10:10 AM
Thank you so much for another excellent recap!
I really liked this episode a lot. I know I'll be watching it again.
I love how Don swam through the episode. I thought last week he had hit rock bottom, but I could not picture him in a twelve step program. Not yet. Taking the exercise route, and trying to work it out himself, does seem true to his character. And swimming is both symbolic and so beautiful.
I would read a book by Don Draper.
And the lack of credit music at the end felt very cold turkey. Almost startling.
Such a good show. Thanks again, TLo and commenters for enhancing the experience!
9/13/10, 10:13 AM
This is the first MM episode I ever wanted to continue long after it was over. It could've easily been titled "The Demise of Joan". And why didn't Joan want to sleep with Greg? I hope it wasn't because she's ovulating. But it was exactly what was happening in the office: a man disrepecting her power. She told Greg no but that didn't stop him. I still hope he gets killed by friendly fire in Vietnam. Maybe in a duel with Joey over who is the bigger dick.
9/13/10, 10:16 AM
I really enjoyed this episode. I began my career in advertising in 1985, so Joan would have been in her 50s and Peggy in her 40s then. We still called them "secretary's" back then and, trust me, I had my share of "Joan's" - women who resented young professional "girls" and who actually believed we were as good as the men we worked with.
Our "Joans" never treated us as well as they treated the men they worked for and often treated us worse. My "Joan" acted as if I was a child and knew nothing.
My "Peggy" on the other hand was a career woman and my ally. She trusted me and ENtrusted me. I loved her and saw her as my mentor. She was tough and smart and, yeah - one of the guys. She taught me how to be a professional because she relied on her skills and her brains, not her femininity.
TLo has said that Joanie is becoming dated in her appearance. Now it's her attitude. Those boys won't give her a second thought in the jungles of Vietnam - they'll be thinking about girls their age. And their own mothers. But Joan thinks every man still desires her. And the harder she fights to cling to that belief, the more desperate she appears. And nobody desires desperation.
9/13/10, 10:17 AM
Anonmyous said:
Confession time: every time Don contemplated drinking, I would scream "No, Don! Don't give in!"
.....
then take a swig of my cocktail...
9/13/10 5:16 AM
Ha ha, Anon, I can relate. I raised my wine glass of Chianti to Don and Dr. Faye when they were drinking their Chianti, then tutted at Don when he took a sip.
9/13/10, 10:21 AM
Ten years after the Joey/Rizzo/Peggy/Joan sexual harrassment incident I was a young member of the legal department at a Forutne 100 company - my first job, along with a crop of other new attorneys. We always had lunch at a big round table in the Executive Dining Room; I was the only female attorney in the department.
One day one of the more senior of the bunch started to needle the one black attorney with some remarks about which neighborhoods he could live in and how he'd have to be mowing lawns (not as Henry Francis, either) in others. I was appalled, but no one objected. The conversation then got a little blue, which made me uncomfortable, given the professional context, so, with my lunch finished, I remarked that the topic was a bit much for my taste, and excused myself from the table.
The black attorney came to my office later on to tell me that after I left there was a fair amount of har-de-har-har'ing and then speculation about my sex life, especially from the race-baiter. I told him that I was horrified at the racist remarks, which he wearily said he could deal with.
I never ate with them again. And the sexist/racist went on as the company's fair-haired child to become, 20 years later, the general counsel. And word was that he still was a prick. [And I don't use that term lightly.]
Peggy and Joan, I had a lot of empathy for you. Last night's episode resonated.
All the best,
NDC
9/13/10, 10:25 AM
P.S. to TLO-
Gentlemen, I have to thank you for putting up this post so quickly, and having once again given such insight to this delicious series. I know how hard it is to keep up a blog (which is why I don't have one, too much work!) but you never disappoint. I really do look forward to your Mad Men posts because it feels like I'm taking a graduate level film class. I love the comments too, the replies are always so intelligent and snarky! As a loyal bitter kitten/ unborn fawn who has been reading your blog for years, Thank You. Never leave me, darlings!
9/13/10, 10:29 AM
I'm still not entirely sure about Faye but as someone who's pulled herself up by her bootstraps maybe she is a good match for Don. Perhaps another reason for his caution in the taxi-cab (aside from the fact that he's becoming a mensch) is that her daddy has ties to the mob - don't mess this woman around Don otherwise you could end up sleeping with the fishes.
HATED Joey, he really is just a nasty little twerp. How jaded do you have to be to see Harry's open, generous, enthusiasm as a come-on? As for the way he treated Joan (and Peggy) - unforgivable. He's probably just oily enough to dodge the draft, unfortunately.
I too was intrigued by the lack of music over the end credits. On a practical level, however, I do wonder if it's because they blew their budget on the Stones.
Thanks for the recap boys and thanks again for leading me to Mad Men.
Eclectic
9/13/10, 10:29 AM
The difference between Joan and Peggy's handling of the situation was spot on. My mom is a "Joan". She told me I was "too bossy" because I was direct with my boyfriend (now husband). Her approach "men need to think they're in control, so get them to do what you want by making them think it was their idea". Groan.
9/13/10, 10:31 AM
I really liked this episode because Don seemed to be waking up, seeing himself and the world again. With all the water imagery, I think that it was like a baptism into a new life. In the previous episode, Don really hit bottom -- floored in a fight, vomit on his shirt, etc. He seems reborn, in a sense, and taking lots of baby steps to grow up & be a mensch.
I don't think that Don's drinking less would be anything but a relief to everyone in the office because his excesses were becoming an embarrassment & beginning to hurt the business. However, it would be a difficult environment in which to be a teetotaler.
If the unexamined life is not worth living, then Don's life is gaining meaning again. His observations of the world around him and his own struggles can only help him in the advertising business too.
9/13/10, 10:31 AM
The fact that Peggy did it wasn't acceptable to her, since Peggy is, of course, a woman.
What Peggy did was unacceptable because:
a) Joan had already dealt with it
b) Peggy did it behind Joan's back
Basically, Peggy infantilized Joan, implying that she was incapable of dealing with the situation herself.
That's just plain wrong.
9/13/10, 10:32 AM
Anon 9:27. "I agree with previous poster Elaine in that I am not a Joan fan at all. Her nasty reaction to Peggy was borne out of embarrassment and the reality that Peggy is becoming more powerful and independent. Joan has been used to getting her way with men and women, and she's totally lost control with Peggy."
That's exactly how I saw it. I was cringing at her telling Peggy off.
Henry was truly pissing on his territory, wasn't he?
Don said something in the voice over like: "People show you who they really are all the time, we don't see it because we are busy seeing what we want them to be."
It was something like that. It's so true and something I need to remember.
Also, when Don suggested dinner with Faye, she said, why don't you ask me in advance and not just spur of the moment. I would never say that but, I am a complete failure in the dating world. Is it wrong to think spur of the moment works better sometimes? Like, before anyone's can build up expectations that won't be met at the actual date?
I think I'm thinking about this show way too much.
TLo. Thank you so much for your wonderful recaps!
9/13/10, 10:32 AM
Loved how pertinent the lyrics to Satisfaction were to Don's work & life:
When I’m watchin’ my tv
And that man comes on to tell me
How white my shirts can be.
Well he can’t be a man ’cause he doesn’t smoke
The same cigarettes as me.
I can’t get no (Satisfaction)
9/13/10, 10:43 AM
What? Not one comment about the lovable/crusty Mrs. Blankenship?
"It's Bobby's birthday."
"It's Gene's."
"Would you like me to buy him or her a gift?"
CLASSIC!
9/13/10, 10:45 AM
I don't agree guys - I loved this episode. I needed a little bit of Don improvement as things were getting far too dreary and "Lost Weekend' in the first half of the season.
And I knew since we laid eyes on her that Don and Faye were meant to, at the very least, get entangled. She's smart; he's smart. He needs a new Rachel - not a new Betty.
And it's inevitable that Joan got made at Peggy but those two will never see eye to eye. It doesn't diminish the fact that both of them were trying their best to do the right thing - push back against the harassment. There's more than one way to do things - just glad they both did something. And glad Joey is gone.
9/13/10, 10:46 AM
Baxter's Mom, the Yiddish for "Go shit in the ocean" is "Gay kaken offen yom" and my (Jewish) family used it all the time. I laughed out loud at that line.
As for Joan, she is indeed the type--real or fictional--that is often perceived very differently by men and women. To many men, she is vulnerable, sexy as hell, and someone you want to be around and protect.
To many women she is the nasty Queen Bee who uses her sexual attractiveness to get her way, always let's the less kittenish know where they rank, and frequently has no female friends.
I can't stand the Joans of this world and have very little sympathy for them. I sympathize with the limited options women of her time had, but she made her own bad choices: no one made her pursue a married man; no one made her be so mean and petty to other women. She chose that all on her own.
I had two beautiful aunts who would be about Joan's age, both of whom had the brains and talent to be professionals. Instead, they were homemakers--very smart, very creative, very successful homemakers. But you know what they were not? Home-wreckers who put other women down. I'm sorry, but Joan is not some helpless victim.
As for the elevator scene with Peggy, I thought Peggy was attempting a display of sisterhood with Joan, with perhaps a side-dish of "See, I am doing OK here." Joan's amazingly mean response read to me as one woman's defensive response to another woman's ascendant power. She cut Peggy off at the knees to get a little bit of her own back.
And THAT is exactly why she has no female friends and why I will not mourn her coming downfall. She's earned it.
9/13/10, 10:49 AM
"And what's both illuminating and a little depressing is just how mundane his thoughts really are"
Awesomely put. HATED the voiceover work. I mean, isn't half the reason the show is so great the subtlety? Because we can sit here and spend DAYS picking apart what this look or that phrase meant? Such an odd choice to go for the heavy-handed this-is-what-I'm-thinking-now route.
As a former 24-viewer the lack of music at the end freaked me out a little...like "Oh no! Who did they just silent-clock?!?" Have they ever ended without music before? Couldn't figure out what the significance of that was....
9/13/10, 10:54 AM
In an episode marked by introspection, I thought that the silence at the end was perfect.
9/13/10, 10:55 AM
Henry? strapping?
I beg to differ- he looked like a skinny old guy angrily mowing the lawn.
it was great to see him get fed up & be a more rounded character though- who hasn't wanted to tell Betty to shut up?
Anyone else think it was mega creepy that Joey stated that his "Mom is a Joan, even wore a pen around her neck so everyone would look at her boobs"-
and then descended into a nonstop fantasy world about Joan & her imagined sexual activities...
eeew
9/13/10, 10:56 AM
9/13/10, 10:56 AM
9/13/10, 10:57 AM
thanks for having this post ready so early! I watched the episode twice and I loved Don's voice-over narrating, all the time I kept thinking that it was like a letter to somebody (Anna? Sally when she is older?), I thought it revealed many things about Don...
to me the episode showed a new kind of Don, a mix of Don and Dick,
somehow and how he will become a better man by taking the best parts of both... (yes, there are good parts in Don/Dick, although sometimes is hard to believe).
I think it was a very good episode and some of the changes in style and narrative were reminiscent of The Sopranos.... just the fact that there was so much light all the time made it very pleasant, although some very heavy-handed things were being dealt with...
The scene with Don at the NYCA made me swoon and the final scene with happy Don with Gene made me cry... and that's the beauty of Mad Men....
9/13/10, 10:57 AM
Jessica said...
"But you know what they were not? Home-wreckers who put other women down. I'm sorry, but Joan is not some helpless victim."
Whose home did she wreck?
Eclectic
9/13/10, 10:59 AM
After this episode, I think I got a much better idea what Joan does even though we still don't hear what her official title is.
She's certainly more than just an office manager, executive assistant or even "office wife". She clearly wears many hats and involved with the running of the company at every level. She overseers human resources, expensing, orders, supply change, planning. Lane from that one scene clearly has come to respect her ability and intelligece and Joan has the luxury of an informal attituide in her mannerism with him.
However the 1 thing Joan does not have the power to do is fire someone. If she did, this whole fallout with Peggy would be a moot point I suspect.
I do feel Joan's anger toward peggy is both based on jealousy and justified frustration as stated by everyone. Yes Peggy respects Joan and appreciates what she does for the company, but when was the last time she let Joan know that, if ever? Look how resentful she was when Joan was taken to the Clios. Who has given Joan that kind of validation. I realize the "joans" of the world can be controlling pains in the ass but THIS Joan I think deserves some recognition.
It's a good kind of scary to be reminded the real pigs of this world are more like Joey than Rizzo. Rizzo seems just immature and un-evolved compared to the genuine contempt Joey seems to have for women.
Frank
9/13/10, 10:59 AM
I liked this episode myself, though I agree that last week's was more spectacular.
I wonder if the show's creator reads blogs -- many people were complaining about the lack of reference to 60's music and now we get the Stones blaring during a scene (not at the end with the credits).
I don't think that Joan was doing a good job "handling" the Joey situation, since her actions were traditional feminine ones and would only uphold the status quo. I hate it when women say, "Oh, that's a man for you," instead of demanding that men change.
Poor Peggy. I'm reminded of how much flak women like Peggy took from BOTH women and men. It reminds me of cases where there is spousal abuse toward a wife and the wife gets angry with the police who arrest her husband. Women have masochism built into them by society.
9/13/10, 11:01 AM
at anonymous 10:32 am
Don's words were:
"People tell you who they are, but we ignore it, because we want them to be who we want them to be."
many people had said that Don's voice over showed how mundane his thoughts were.... I must be very mundane too, because I thought this particular phrase was very insightful... and very very true....
9/13/10, 11:03 AM
Just one comment on the Joan/Peggy interaction which I thought was extremely fascinating. When Peggy said "I defended you" to Joan and Joan replied "No, you defended yourself," I was really struck by the fact that Peggy recognizes that an insult like Joey's to one woman in the office has a huge impact on the working conditions for all the women in the workplace. I don't mean to malign my beloved Joanie, but I don't think she feels anything remotely like solidarity with the other women in the office. She's not a secretary, but she's not one of the guys. She walks a lonely path and feels like she can't afford any allies.
In contrast, while Peggy's actions may have hurt Joan in the short term, she's helping to set a precedent that those kind of frat boy antics won't be tolerated against her or anyone else, especially someone like Joan, who has more than earned the right to a little respect. Joan's solution basically only helped Joan. The boys would still have had no problems torturing any other woman in the office if they so chose.
I also find it super interesting that as the gender lines are breaking down, there is so much confusion over Joan's role in the office. As the head secretary at the old Sterling Cooper, she was well respected not just for her looks, but for her talent and her take no prisoners attitude. She was universally recognized as the glue that kept the office together. She was the alpha female, which meant that even if she didn't actually outrank any of the men in the office, she wielded considerable control over them.
At the new SCDP, the division of labor between women and men is becoming less pronounced. Because the men accept, to a certain extent, that women can do what they do they have lost respect for what it is that women used to do. This is a common theme in the first few waves of feminism (and really still persists)- equality is achieved by showing that women can work like men, rather than by valuing traditional "women's work" as just as essential to the running of an office.
Anyway, good stuff.
9/13/10, 11:08 AM
I thought the lack of music at the end was meant to illustrate the emptiness of Betty's comment that "we have it all". Her home is just a shell of what a happy home should look like and her witnessing Don's joy with their child, something that she doesn't feel with the children, probably disturbed her. She's also lost some power and feels it when Don shows up unexpectedly. The silent ending was a great bookend to the opening music. This whole season has been about transitions and this was just another interesting, small way to show it.
9/13/10, 11:10 AM
I love your recaps, but don't you get that this was not the same misogyny the series opened with? Things have changed, sex is becoming freer and people are becoming more open about it. Now that young men can get what they want more easily without paying lip service to old-fashioned chivalry, they're less respectful of it. Sorry to sound old-fashioned, but there were some big sociological changes going on at that time, and this is one of the ways they're being expressed--more overt challenges and obscenity. Plus Joan is tipping over into the age where her sexual allure doesn't exert such a big pull. (Maybe the same change happened for Mrs. Blankenship!)
Also, I doubt Betty was giving blow jobs in taxis--it was a different era! (She also admitted in this episode that Don was her first.)
9/13/10, 11:12 AM
mommyca:
Thank you! I'm holding on to that little nugget!
Anon 10:32
9/13/10, 11:14 AM
I'm wondering -- really wondering, not predicting -- if the writers are trying to set up a reveal that Harry is gay. Did anyone notice how he said in last week's episode, when he was handing out the fight tickets, that if Jennifer asks, he really did pay for them? Of course, there are a lot of things he could be spending money on behind his wife's back, but it just seems a little coincidental.
On the other hand, the "Peyton Place" scene with Joey could've been just to show the irony of Joey thinking he was sexually harassed, when in fact he's the harasser.
9/13/10, 11:17 AM
I think this episode had a lot to do with people revealing truths to each other and themselves. Saying out loud what they had been thinking or trying to avoid.
9/13/10, 11:21 AM
Well, as it may seem as an end of Joan's career I really do hope, that Don referring to conception of Baby Gene was reffering to Joan & Greg's baby. As far as i remember those scenes were shown immidiately one after another. I can imagine Joan losing her power but being rewarded the family life she wanted. What is painful for me, is that Joan may end up losing everything both her husband & her influence.
9/13/10, 11:25 AM
@Anonymous 10:32 Exactly! Was anyone else kind of jarred by hearing "Satisfaction" on Mad Men? It's hard to believe that a series that seemed to indulge in Rat Pack nostalgia takes a turn to the modern here. It makes you realize just how much time has passed. And the lyrics of Satisfaction kind of mirror Don's own writing -- you've been made to think you want something, and then you have it, and you realize it's not perfect. So you leave it, and then you miss it. You will never have satisfaction, and that's the human condition baby. May as well just learn to deal with it -- and that's the journey Don is on, at last. Betty has a parallel arc here, having gotten a man who worships her in a way Don did not on the one hand, but who does try to force her to think a little deeper on the other. She's not ready for it, but she's taking a stab at it in order to move forward.
Henry Francis is hot. I can't believe it, but it's true!
9/13/10, 11:28 AM
I really enjoyed this episode. When Don started journaling, I wondered if he had started some kind of counseling - as totally unlikely as that is. I was struck by how basically insecure Joan is. You can just see the differences Joan and Peggy will have in their attitudes towards the brewing feminist movement. And - I very much agree with the interpretation of anonymous @ 8:52.
9/13/10, 11:30 AM
I think it is interesting that Don is writing in a very elegant way, and also swimming. This seems like an allusion to John Cheever's work and career, especially his story "The Swimmer" which was released in 1966 as a film with Burt Lancaster.
Cheever documented the suburban and urban life of elites in New York in the 1950s and 60s--and is to me the classic example of a writer who found the underlying discomfort under the facade of happiness.
Even the image of Don in teh bed (like a skydiver) seems very Cheever-like in imagery.
9/13/10, 11:42 AM
Seeing Henry mowing the lawn in a teeshirt and grey trousers flashed me back to my youth. I remembered my dad using the pushmower dressed in old clothes. That's what suburban men did back then, before jeans were worn everywhere by everybody. They wore old clothes to do chores.
It's the little things like this that make Mad Men such a pleasure.
--Itsjustme
9/13/10, 11:42 AM
Joey's firing:
1) Joan may have been right about the boys perception of Peggy, but Peggy was right to fire him, which she did (as Carol in LA and others note) after he said "that is why I don't like working for a woman..."
2) There is no way Joan could fire Joey--she is administration and he was working for creative. It would be inappropriate. Peggy was his boss (somewhere in S401 it is stated that she is in charge of something at the new firm--I don't remember exactly). It is up to her or to Don to fire him. I thought she did it beautifully "Don doesn't know who you are" was a great line.
3) I wonder if he will stay fired. Remember how Jane's firing came back to bite Joan in the ***. Or it is possible that he will go work for a competitor..?
9/13/10, 11:47 AM
I imagined my own song ending...summer wind by Sinatra, but it was released in 1966.
9/13/10, 11:47 AM
I imagined my own song ending...summer wind by Sinatra, but it was released in 1966.
9/13/10, 11:49 AM
9/13/10, 11:49 AM
Vanessa, you're right with the reference to Cheever. I'm really liking Don finding his writer's voice and his fledgling introspection. There is so much potential there. Contrast it with entitled Roger's "Mother wouldn't let us eat chocolate ice cream because it would stain the furniture"!
And I'm ecstatic that about their use of "Satisfaction." Now it's really the '60s. Noticed the song started in the little transistor radio in the locker room before it just blasted out as Don hit the street. And it's funny to me that the episode included the swimming theme. I'm a Sally, and that WAS summer of '65 to me, days spent at the neighborhood pool, and "Satisfaction" blasting constantly.
I said it last week, and I'll say it again: Sally's parents will yearn for the days when their daughter's crush was cute Ilya Kuryakin!
9/13/10, 11:52 AM
Betty's feelings about Don:
I guess I am not done yet. Many seem to think that Betty still has love/longing for Don, but I think her reactions to him are anger. She wants him to suffer for hurting her, for cheating, for lying, for pretending to give her what she wanted when living a double life. No matter how "happy" she is, she does not want to see him out at an elegant restaurant with a glamorous woman having a good time, and she wants to punish him by withholding baby Gene, the baby she didn't really want to begin with.
There are also parallels in Betty and Joan's feelings about marriage. I think Joan cries in part because she does not want to be alone again. Being married to a man who is in the military means she has to go everywhere alone, take care of everything herself, be a single woman again in effect, despite her improved status by being Mrs. somebody. Betty absolutely wants to be married and have the husband and the house, whatever is takes, so she does what it takes to manage her new and ex-husbands so she doesn't lose the second one.
9/13/10, 11:53 AM
3) I wonder if he will stay fired. Remember how Jane's firing came back to bite Joan in the ***. Or it is possible that he will go work for a competitor..?
Joey can't offer senior management what Jane offered Roger. His belief that Harry wants him is just part of his "I'm the prettiest" fantasy.
He's freelance. He could go to work anywhere. I don't see him getting a permanent position anytime soon--he managed to annoy a lot of people & nobody was impressed by his work.
9/13/10, 11:53 AM
Reading through the comments I couldn't help but notice how Joan's fit triggered not only pity, but a lot of angry reactions.
I did feel bad for Peggy and her attempts to help, but how else was Joan supposed to behave ? Even when she tries (and she does try, like she did at the beginning of the episode), she doesn't get the kind of respect girls like Peggy manage to get on the workplace, because whereas Peggy earned some respect step by step, Joan will never get it - they are from different "worlds", somehow. How is she supposed to react then ? All she has is her old-fashioned way of dealing with things ! She doesn't have the tools Peggy or the guys have - she couldn't have fired Joey.
On a sidenote, not a fan of the voiceover but for one episode I think they managed to make it work - and overall that was a pretty good episode to me.
Thanks TLo for the afternoon coffee read !
9/13/10, 11:57 AM
I thought Joan's comments to Peggy in the elevator were spectacularly mean. Joan couldn't stand that Peggy was proud of herself in defending Joan. Joan's sad, because she can't have women friends and treats women badly in general. I didn't particularly like the voiceover but it served a purpose. Betty is such a horrible mother that Don can't help looking like a good father in comparison, even though when he lived with the kids he never paid much attention to them. And I don't know why I don't like Faye, she just seems cold. It was a good episode, but did feel a little bit of a letdown because the last one was so revealing.
9/13/10, 12:06 PM
Joey's remark about how Joan was just like his mom? Dude, WFT, do you have issues.
When the other guys in the room told Rizzo that "you love [Peggy]," I burst out laughing. Peggy's still got him by the balls as surely as if she had "dipped that thing in ink and [written] with it." Ha HAH.
9/13/10, 12:07 PM
Faye Miller's fable is the best way to ask for someone's coat ever, regardless if she meant it that way or not.
9/13/10, 12:12 PM
It seems churlish to complain but 'no fair' to people on the West Coast!
It's only 8.30 here and there've already been so many comments that it seems a bit like a waste of time to contribute. But I will anyway :)
Some random thoughts.
- I don't think Joey hates all women, he just has no respect for those whose prime modus operandi is sexual manipulation. However, unlike Lane, who also didn't appreciate Joan's wiles, he doesn't realise that underneath it all she is also supremely competent at her job. (Funny that she is shown giving Lane a bj, the one man that she CAN'T influence with her sexuality).
- As Roger's power has waned, so has Joan's ability to manipulate through him and their shared history.
- I think Joey actually had a grudging respect for Peggy and her work. His mistake is in thinking of her as 'one of the guys' instead of his superior, hence his incredulity over the firing.
- Tellingly I think the other 'boys' respect Peggy too. Is it Joey who says as an aside to Stan something like 'you know you love her'?
- Joey's insults particularly struck home because they were at least partially true. Joan HAS been raped at least once and yes, she does strut around like a 'Shanghai Madam' using her sexuality to get what she wants. Joey has seen right through her.
- And even Joan's husband just sees her primarily as a sexual object.
- Stupidly I had never thought of her pen necklace as being a totally 'professional' way of drawing attention to her breasts, but of course it is. Interestingly Joan has on a MUCH lower scooped neck frilled top this week. Is she trying to dress more overtly sexily as she feels her powers wane?
- Don' apartment looked so much better now that the shades are pulled up. It seems like he's letting some light into his own life too. And women are throwing themselves at his feet again, which has to be a good sign.
- Great acting on the part of the baby, who looked away from Don the entire time he was being thrown in the air. Don has a big fence to repair there.
- Great acting also (and make up/lighting) from January Jones, who seemed a lot more lined and drawn and nervous and uptight. In the smoking scene in the bathroom, she somehow contorted her face to show off deep furrows.
And Henry Francis is realising that she is far too childish and self-absorbed to be a good political wife. She is someone else who has used her looks rather than her in this case less-than-attractive personality to get what she wants, but now her looks are fading too.
9/13/10, 12:15 PM
JohnG said:
If they want to really be accurate to the times, people at the office should start noticing and whispering about how *little* Don is drinking. Nothing more disturbing to the alcohol culture than someone's pulling back from it.
One thing that's always felt off about Mad Men - not enough paper. There should be more magazines, newspapers (how many dailies ran in NY in 1965? How many had both AM and PM editions?), receipts, checks, calendars, spindles, etc strewn about. This was a society that ran on paper.
-------------------
Great observations John. Regarding the latter, I've thought the same exact thing about the paper issue. Every desk is a little too sparse, lacking those pre-computer staples. Lots of newspapers, magazine and spindles! yes.
And TLo, another great recap. Thank you so much.
9/13/10, 12:18 PM
Relating to Dr. Faye's fable, Joan's method of handling men is the sun, and Peggy's is the wind... but this time, I think force was necessary. Joey is a little bastard and he needed to go.
Also, I feel my comment of last week that Peggy was the mouse and Don the elephant was proven correct-- did you see the gift Don brought for little Gene?
9/13/10, 12:32 PM
Some of you may be aware that the recap and talked about scenes for this episode were inadvertently aired on AMC earlier this week. (My husbie and I speculated about the potential reactions of Weiner and his creepy kid as we went to bed that night. "The whole family is still up, Weiner's pate is red and steaming and no one can get off the couch")
And yes, I looked.
So I already knew Weiner had described this as being as close to a short story as you could get. (Or something to that effect)
And like a lot of us, I was somewhat disappointed thinking it was a bit disjointed and underrevealing.
Until this morning as I was pondering everyone's thoughtful remarks regarding the attitudes of and toward and about women of the time. I was thinking of my mama and her friends ('65 High school grads) and remembering how they'd quit working after marriage, even my Braniff flight attendant aunt who adored her job once told me that in a different world she'd likely have never married or had children until her 30s if at all and that she quit because in their circle, to continue working would have cast suspicious light on one's husband and the families finances. Feeling too that sometimes Mad Men is still a bit too subtle about the differences in age (that is, what a woman in her mid 20s for instance was like then vs. now) when it occured to me that Joan, Elizabeth Taylor and MY GRANDMOTHER would all be literally within a year or two of the same age and that within 5 years they would become grandmothers in their late 30s while Joan has yet to even have children. My grandmother was from an upper middle class background with two years of college when she married but i always felt it was regarded as something of a bragging right that somehow her great beauty had expedited her own personal circle of life.
Maybe some kittens even more vintage than myself could speak to this for us. I understand the Mad Men team assumes we're intelligent and well read enough to bypass the subtlety to understand how very very much the role of the main women's increasing age plays in shaping their personalities. Perhaps it was different in the cities than in my small, affluent Texas hometown (where frankly you'd still be notable for not having married/for having pursued a career/remained childless) Joan seems obviously bitter about the situation but she was in a situation where Roger's 'affinity' for her would have been understood and carried a tremendous amount of weight and reaped power that she chose instead of a traditional path, whether she was conscious of it or not. Still Hendricks once said she imagined Joan being from Washington State so wonder if those mores of the time would have been even more pronounced than are explicit.
Also I'm on the side of finding Faye just slightly less than period seeming. I almost wish they'd made her 'more' period for continuity, but hey, it's not my show! My 14 year old daughter also pointed out when I mentioned Bethany seeming a bit too modern for my taste that in the restaurant scene Betty is wearing a very stylish dress of the year but while Bethany's hair and make up are spot on, the dress might be just on the verge of dated-inadvertently giving her a more modern edge.
Sorry for rambling, we started moving this weekend, still quite stiff and out of sorts but love it if any of you ladies could speak to what Peggy/Joan/Faye etc might have really been dealing with in terms of what it meant to be a professional, childless woman of that time.
And I apologize for not reading this over better, I'm literally a mental mess! Please forgive me.
Also, was I the only one that didn't know Don's nose tap when discussing Faye's father was the international gesture for 'wiseguy'?!
Looking foreard to everyones thoughts!
Thanks-Cake
9/13/10, 12:32 PM
Some of you may be aware that the recap and talked about scenes for this episode were inadvertently aired on AMC earlier this week. (My husbie and I speculated about the potential reactions of Weiner and his creepy kid as we went to bed that night. "The whole family is still up, Weiner's pate is red and steaming and no one can get off the couch")
And yes, I looked.
So I already knew Weiner had described this as being as close to a short story as you could get. (Or something to that effect)
And like a lot of us, I was somewhat disappointed thinking it was a bit disjointed and underrevealing.
Until this morning as I was pondering everyone's thoughtful remarks regarding the attitudes of and toward and about women of the time. I was thinking of my mama and her friends ('65 High school grads) and remembering how they'd quit working after marriage, even my Braniff flight attendant aunt who adored her job once told me that in a different world she'd likely have never married or had children until her 30s if at all and that she quit because in their circle, to continue working would have cast suspicious light on one's husband and the families finances. Feeling too that sometimes Mad Men is still a bit too subtle about the differences in age (that is, what a woman in her mid 20s for instance was like then vs. now) when it occured to me that Joan, Elizabeth Taylor and MY GRANDMOTHER would all be literally within a year or two of the same age and that within 5 years they would become grandmothers in their late 30s while Joan has yet to even have children. My grandmother was from an upper middle class background with two years of college when she married but i always felt it was regarded as something of a bragging right that somehow her great beauty had expedited her own personal circle of life.
Maybe some kittens even more vintage than myself could speak to this for us. I understand the Mad Men team assumes we're intelligent and well read enough to bypass the subtlety to understand how very very much the role of the main women's increasing age plays in shaping their personalities. Perhaps it was different in the cities than in my small, affluent Texas hometown (where frankly you'd still be notable for not having married/for having pursued a career/remained childless) Joan seems obviously bitter about the situation but she was in a situation where Roger's 'affinity' for her would have been understood and carried a tremendous amount of weight and reaped power that she chose instead of a traditional path, whether she was conscious of it or not. Still Hendricks once said she imagined Joan being from Washington State so wonder if those mores of the time would have been even more pronounced than are explicit.
Also I'm on the side of finding Faye just slightly less than period seeming. I almost wish they'd made her 'more' period for continuity, but hey, it's not my show! My 14 year old daughter also pointed out when I mentioned Bethany seeming a bit too modern for my taste that in the restaurant scene Betty is wearing a very stylish dress of the year but while Bethany's hair and make up are spot on, the dress might be just on the verge of dated-inadvertently giving her a more modern edge.
Sorry for rambling, we started moving this weekend, still quite stiff and out of sorts but love it if any of you ladies could speak to what Peggy/Joan/Faye etc might have really been dealing with in terms of what it meant to be a professional, childless woman of that time.
And I apologize for not reading this over better, I'm literally a mental mess! Please forgive me.
Also, was I the only one that didn't know Don's nose tap when discussing Faye's father was the international gesture for 'wiseguy'?!
Looking foreard to everyones thoughts!
Thanks-Cake
9/13/10, 12:33 PM
Some of you may be aware that the recap and talked about scenes for this episode were inadvertently aired on AMC earlier this week. (My husbie and I speculated about the potential reactions of Weiner and his creepy kid as we went to bed that night. "The whole family is still up, Weiner's pate is red and steaming and no one can get off the couch")
And yes, I looked.
So I already knew Weiner had described this as being as close to a short story as you could get. (Or something to that effect)
And like a lot of us, I was somewhat disappointed thinking it was a bit disjointed and underrevealing.
Until this morning as I was pondering everyone's thoughtful remarks regarding the attitudes of and toward and about women of the time. I was thinking of my mama and her friends ('65 High school grads) and remembering how they'd quit working after marriage, even my Braniff flight attendant aunt who adored her job once told me that in a different world she'd likely have never married or had children until her 30s if at all and that she quit because in their circle, to continue working would have cast suspicious light on one's husband and the families finances. Feeling too that sometimes Mad Men is still a bit too subtle about the differences in age (that is, what a woman in her mid 20s for instance was like then vs. now) when it occured to me that Joan, Elizabeth Taylor and MY GRANDMOTHER would all be literally within a year or two of the same age and that within 5 years they would become grandmothers in their late 30s while Joan has yet to even have children. My grandmother was from an upper middle class background with two years of college when she married but i always felt it was regarded as something of a bragging right that somehow her great beauty had expedited her own personal circle of life.
Maybe some kittens even more vintage than myself could speak to this for us. I understand the Mad Men team assumes we're intelligent and well read enough to bypass the subtlety to understand how very very much the role of the main women's increasing age plays in shaping their personalities. Perhaps it was different in the cities than in my small, affluent Texas hometown (where frankly you'd still be notable for not having married/for having pursued a career/remained childless) Joan seems obviously bitter about the situation but she was in a situation where Roger's 'affinity' for her would have been understood and carried a tremendous amount of weight and reaped power that she chose instead of a traditional path, whether she was conscious of it or not. Still Hendricks once said she imagined Joan being from Washington State so wonder if those mores of the time would have been even more pronounced than are explicit.
Sorry for rambling, we started moving this weekend, still quite stiff and out of sorts but love it if any of you ladies could speak to what Peggy/Joan/Faye etc might have really been dealing with in terms of what it meant to be a professional, childless woman of that time.
And I apologize for not reading this over better, I'm literally a mental mess! Please forgive me.
Also, was I the only one that didn't know Don's nose tap when discussing Faye's father was the international gesture for 'wiseguy'?!
Looking foreard to everyones thoughts!
Thanks-Cake
9/13/10, 12:35 PM
Some of you may be aware that the recap and talked about scenes for this episode were inadvertently aired on AMC earlier this week. (My husbie and I speculated about the potential reactions of Weiner and his creepy kid as we went to bed that night. "The whole family is still up, Weiner's pate is red and steaming and no one can get off the couch")
And yes, I looked.
So I already knew Weiner had described this as being as close to a short story as you could get. (Or something to that effect)
And like a lot of us, I was somewhat disappointed thinking it was a bit disjointed and underrevealing.
Until this morning as I was pondering everyone's thoughtful remarks regarding the attitudes of and toward and about women of the time. I was thinking of my mama and her friends ('65 High school grads) and remembering how they'd quit working after marriage, even my Braniff flight attendant aunt who adored her job once told me that in a different world she'd likely have never married or had children until her 30s if at all and that she quit because in their circle, to continue working would have cast suspicious light on one's husband and the families finances. Feeling too that sometimes Mad Men is still a bit too subtle about the differences in age (that is, what a woman in her mid 20s for instance was like then vs. now) when it occured to me that Joan, Elizabeth Taylor and MY GRANDMOTHER would all be literally within a year or two of the same age and that within 5 years they would become grandmothers in their late 30s while Joan has yet to even have children. My grandmother was from an upper middle class background with two years of college when she married but i always felt it was regarded as something of a bragging right that somehow her great beauty had expedited her own personal circle of life.
Maybe some kittens even more vintage than myself could speak to this for us. I understand the Mad Men team assumes we're intelligent and well read enough to bypass the subtlety to understand how very very much the role of the main women's increasing age plays in shaping their personalities.
Sorry for rambling, we started moving this weekend, still quite stiff and out of sorts but love it if any of you ladies could speak to what Peggy/Joan/Faye etc might have really been dealing with in terms of what it meant to be a professional, childless woman of that time.
And I apologize for not reading this over better, I'm literally a mental mess! Please forgive me.
Also, was I the only one that didn't know Don's nose tap when discussing Faye's father was the international gesture for 'wiseguy'?!
Looking foreard to everyones thoughts!
Thanks-Cake
9/13/10, 12:36 PM
Some of you may be aware that the recap and talked about scenes for this episode were inadvertently aired on AMC earlier this week. (My husbie and I speculated about the potential reactions of Weiner and his creepy kid as we went to bed that night. "The whole family is still up, Weiner's pate is red and steaming and no one can get off the couch")
And yes, I looked.
So I already knew Weiner had described this as being as close to a short story as you could get. (Or something to that effect)
And like a lot of us, I was somewhat disappointed thinking it was a bit disjointed and underrevealing.
Until this morning as I was pondering everyone's thoughtful remarks regarding the attitudes of and toward and about women of the time. I was thinking of my mama and her friends ('65 High school grads) and remembering how they'd quit working after marriage, even my Braniff flight attendant aunt who adored her job once told me that to continue working would have cast suspicious light on one's husband and the families finances. Feeling too that sometimes Mad Men is still a bit too subtle about the differences in age (that is, what a woman in her mid 20s for instance was like then vs. now) when it occured to me that Joan, Elizabeth Taylor and MY GRANDMOTHER would all be literally within a year or two of the same age and that within 5 years they would become grandmothers in their late 30s while Joan has yet to even have children. My grandmother was from an upper middle class background with two years of college when she married but i always felt it was regarded as something of a bragging right that somehow her great beauty had expedited her own personal circle of life.
Maybe some kittens even more vintage than myself could speak to this for us. I understand the Mad Men team assumes we're intelligent and well read enough to bypass the subtlety to understand how very very much the role of the main women's increasing age plays in shaping their personalities.
Sorry for rambling, we started moving this weekend, still quite stiff and out of sorts but love it if any of you ladies could speak to what Peggy/Joan/Faye etc might have really been dealing with in terms of what it meant to be a professional, childless woman of that time.
And I apologize for not reading this over better, I'm literally a mental mess! Please forgive me.
Also, was I the only one that didn't know Don's nose tap when discussing Faye's father was the international gesture for 'wiseguy'?!
Looking foreard to everyones thoughts!
Thanks-Cake
9/13/10, 12:40 PM
Some of you may be aware that the recap and talked about scenes for this episode were inadvertently aired on AMC earlier this week. (My husbie and I speculated about the potential reactions of Weiner and his creepy kid as we went to bed that night. "The whole family is still up, Weiner's pate is red and steaming and no one can get off the couch")
And yes, I looked.
So I already knew Weiner had described this as being as close to a short story as you could get. (Or something to that effect)
And like a lot of us, I was somewhat disappointed thinking it was a bit disjointed and underrevealing.
Until this morning as I was pondering everyone's thoughtful remarks regarding the attitudes of and toward and about women of the time. I was thinking of my mama and her friends ('65 High school grads) and remembering how they'd quit working after marriage, even my Braniff flight attendant aunt who adored her job once told me that to continue working would have cast suspicious light on one's husband and the families finances, when it occured to me that Joan, Elizabeth Taylor and MY GRANDMOTHER would all be literally within a year or two of the same age and that within 5 years they would become grandmothers in their late 30s while Joan has yet to even have children. My grandmother was from an upper middle class background with two years of college when she married but i always felt it was regarded as something of a bragging right that somehow her great beauty had expedited her own personal circle of life.
Maybe some kittens even more vintage than myself could speak to what Peggy/Joan/Faye etc might have really been dealing with in terms of what it meant to be a professional, childless woman of that time and the difference in a woman of that age then vs now.
And I apologize for not reading this over better, we started moving house this weekend, I'm literally a physical/mental mess! Please forgive me.
Also, was I the only one that didn't know Don's nose tap when discussing Faye's father was the international gesture for 'wiseguy'?!
Looking foreard to everyones thoughts!
Thanks-Cake
9/13/10, 12:40 PM
It was Don and Bethany's 3rd date.
Three dates in five months.
Don said he wanted to wake up and BE that man. The man who climbs the mountain and controls his feelings.
Wet my jammies at sweaty shirtless hunky Henry. Jesus.
9/13/10, 12:42 PM
Everyone mentions what a bad mother Betty is. In 1965, I was 9, My dad was 36 and my new step mom(with a temperment like Bettys) was 24.It was not the Brady Bunch!
Betty is extremely fortunate she did not have any of his kids moving in with them.
9/13/10, 12:42 PM
Thank you for your recaps TLo, you always have astute observations. I liked this ep a lot, actually. Are Don's mid-life maunderings mundane? Sure, but then life is mundane - I thought the Don expressed his thoughts well and even touchingly.
Ok, I have a confession - I hope I won't have to turn in my TLo Unborn Fawns badge because of it, but....I'm not a huge Joan fan. To me she's a volcano of unexpressed rage and class/sex resentment. Her sex appeal is calculated, the only weapon she thinks she has. She reminds me of women who expect to coast on their looks, which Joan certainly has. A lot of the character's appeal has to do with Christina Hendricks zaftig gorgeousness - or at least I hope so because otherwise her popularity suggests a retrograde desire to be taken care of because you're pretty.
Just IMO
Frosty
9/13/10, 12:42 PM
It's not a nose tap, it's a nose bend... like a broken or crooked nose.
And yes, you're the only one.
9/13/10, 12:43 PM
Ohmygosh, is there a way to delete these 9 gillion duplicated comments? I kept getting an error message as I posted and yet, here they all are. Yikes!
-Cake
9/13/10, 12:43 PM
Certain things don't change, and one of them is the way men fight. This episode made me so sad because it brought to mind an incident, not as destructive as Joan's and not as important in terms of my position in life, but still. But still.
When my older son was in Little League, we moms (and dads, too, but it was mostly the moms) staffed the snack bar in team rotations. I had the early shift and had just put the coffee on when one of the obnoxious fathers ordered a cup.
When he was told it was still brewing he made some sort of snide remark -- nothing sexist, just snide, but I can't recall it exactly -- and I replied something along the lines of the snack bar's opening at 8 and it takes time for the coffee to perk.
His reply was the stock "Can't you take a joke?" put-down. I swear if I weren't well-brought up (a curse, sometimes) and if we didn't live in such a litigious society (and he a lawyer!), I would have spilled the coffee onto his pants, and at his first word, I would have asked, "Can't you take a joke?"
I should have at least spilled the coffee on the counter and said, 'oh, I'm sorry, let me get you another,' and gotten it very slowly.
But other than console myself with these scenarios, I have prickled whenever I hear 'can't you take a joke?'
Something terrible about myself: I read a few years ago that this man died, fairly young. I couldn't muster up the slightest feeling of sadness for his wife and kids who were very nice people. It was like when Lee Atwater died. Not to take pleasure, but still. But still.
Hope
9/13/10, 12:45 PM
Loved Sally's sly little wave at the end, when Don enters the room.
Also thought Henry was a little nervy to ask Don to move his things from the garage so he could put in his new boat. Ha. How about you buy the garage first?
Doesn't Don still own half the house?
9/13/10, 12:46 PM
Would a girl like Bethany really do that in the back of a cab in 1965? I know oral sex isn't a recent invention but I thought girls were a LITTLE more inhibited back then?
9/13/10, 12:47 PM
I'm going to come back later and read every comment, as I usually do, but let me say right now, and I apologize if someone else has said it, but I want to personally thank each and every person who worked to get laws passed prohibiting sexual harrassment in the workplace. I mean, I've worked in offices, and it's not like I don't know how ugly some undercurrents can get, but to be reminded of how rough it can be without such laws simply makes me grateful.
9/13/10, 1:03 PM
Frenchie said:
I did feel bad for Peggy and her attempts to help, but how else was Joan supposed to behave ? Even when she tries (and she does try, like she did at the beginning of the episode), she doesn't get the kind of respect girls like Peggy manage to get on the workplace, because whereas Peggy earned some respect step by step, Joan will never get it - they are from different "worlds", somehow. How is she supposed to react then ? All she has is her old-fashioned way of dealing with things ! She doesn't have the tools Peggy or the guys have - she couldn't have fired Joey.
I think Joan's problem is that she could have the tools that Peggy does if she ever chose to use them. Peggy is right that Joan and Lane run the place, and even if Joan didn't have explicit power to fire Joey herself, a single straightforward complaint to any of the partners would have gotten the job done. Preferably they would even give her the authority to fire him herself, as Don did with Peggy. Joan is too reliant on her old methods, which are hopelessly out of date. We saw it earlier in the season when she tried it with Lane.
The little pep-talk that Don gave to Peggy about demanding respect is also something that Joan needs to hear, although with a slightly different twist. Joan has always been able to demand respect through a combination of desirability, poise, and ability to get the job done in a way that pleases everybody else. Now a new day has dawned, and it requires a more upfront and forceful manner.
9/13/10, 1:03 PM
I also thought that part of Joan's bitchy response to Peggy in the elevator was frustration because she does see things changing, sees Peggy gaining power, and doesn't know what to do about it. She tells Peggy how she could have/would have handled Joey, but she had been trying (once with Don, once with Lane) and wasn't making any headway. She chastised Peggy for making her "appear" weak, but knows deep down that she actually is weakening, so all the more venom directed toward Peggy.
That sounded more profound in my head before I typed it all out - sorry if I am just repeating other posters!
9/13/10, 1:12 PM
I agree with comment about being gobsmacked by Henry's temerity in demanding Don remove those boxes from the home he owns as a mere tenant. Further illustrates Don's adultness in this episode.
I agree also that these thoughts sound so. dang. profound. in my head before they hit the thread. (6 times, so sorry)
Also, I clearly am the only one who'd never noticed the nose bend gesture as 'wiseguy.' Makes me wonder what else I've managed to overlook in 41 years, yeesh!
-Cake (who is off to get a proper account for posting purposes as penance for my blogging down the thread this morning, hopefully that will give me powers of deletion!)
9/13/10, 1:15 PM
I actually kind of liked the voice over because it's the first time we really see Don trying to look inward and figure out what he feels. He's always been very reactive.
9/13/10, 1:16 PM
As much as Joan's situation hurt in this episode and as sad I was to see all these things come crashing down around her, I also really wished someone would smack her. She was more obnoxious than she's ever been in some parts of this episode, and I was gritting my teeth every time she spoke to Peggy.
Good episode nonetheless, though no where near as great as last week's.
9/13/10, 1:21 PM
@aim -- Your mother and mine should get together for coffee sometime. I remember being told regularly when I was in high school that I was too picky about boys, and what difference did it make if I really liked them, they might take me somewhere fun or introduce me to someone else.
To which my response was that I could take myself anywhere I wanted to go, and why would I want the kind of guy that tries to hit on someone else's date?
I also got the line about being too bossy fairly regularly because I saw no reason why I should date a guy that didn't meet my standards.
9/13/10, 1:22 PM
Mary said..."Preferably they would even give her [Joan] the authority to fire him herself, as Don did with Peggy."
Don did not give Peggy authority as a gift--It was her job--he reminded her that she had to take responsibility for firing people who work for her if they step over the line. He could have done it (since he is her boss and thus senior to both Peggy and Joey in the Creative division of the agency).
9/13/10, 1:24 PM
I see another way to view this episode. The images of Don swimming and being like a skydiver when sleeping underscore the way that his divorce has freed him. He is reinventing himself and he has the opportunity to do that, unlike the women of that time, who celebrate the high points of other’s lives (birthday party, going to work dinner) but are themselves trapped in the rooms of the Barbizon, atomized (one to a room) and put on the shelf for purchase (Joan has been on the shelf too long).
I don’t think Betty is in love with Don, I think she is incredibly jealous of the life that he has now -- dating and living in the city and being able to be the fun parent while she is stuck with the work (making the cake while he gets to eat it). Francis is realizing this as well, as he is pushing the lawnmower while Don is much more mobile in his car. He is realizing that he has signed up for lots of work at home literally and figuratively while Don is free to work at his career (not coincidental that Francis’s job prospects are tied to Betty). Betty doesn’t want to have Don, she wants to be Don (remember the hook up in the bar). Note she didn’t’ mention that to Francis when she said that Don was her only. Betty’s “We have everything.” is ironic because she does have everything and it is weighing her down while Don has nothing and so he can fly.
Lily
9/13/10, 1:25 PM
oops==hit post too soon:
Don did not give Peggy authority as a gift--It was her job--he reminded her that she had to take responsibility for firing people who work for her if they step over the line. He could have done it (since he is her boss and thus senior to both Peggy and Joey in the Creative division of the agency), but all lane or Don could have Don was to tell Joan to inform someone that they were being fired. There is a difference.
9/13/10, 1:25 PM
Also, I see a lot of references to John Cheever's "The Swimmer."
9/13/10, 1:25 PM
Also, I see a lot of references to John Cheever's "The Swimmer."
9/13/10, 1:29 PM
@Cake - While professional women are more common and accepted now, a woman in her mid-30's without children STILL faces a lot of judgment in many places. Especially if her career doesn't fall into a handful of categories like doctor or lawyer, important enough to allow your childlessness to be overlooked.
9/13/10, 1:39 PM
I also felt the show was a bit of a shift, which may be all to the fact that the ground has shifted under all of them. Sexism in the workplace (and everyone I know at my age -- 54 -- has had it), but the scene between Joey and Joan was shocking to me, to hear those words.
Hearing Faye shout "Go shit in the ocean!" made me laugh, since in Yiddish, the expression "Gay kocken afen yam!" was one my grandmother taught me. Obviously, a lot of viewers wouldn't have gotten the Yiddish, but it would have been entirely appropriate for this Jewish doctor to let loose with it.
Excellent analysis, as always!
9/13/10, 1:51 PM
My husband had an insight about Joey's over-the-top misogyny.
We both noted that up until last night's episode, Joey has been relatively likable.
My husband pointed out that at the beginning of last night's episode, several men are trying to fish candy out of the machine, and they discuss how Joey has "the smallest hands." The fight with the candy machine is a bit of a masculinity test: who's strongest? Who can lift the machine? Joey has small hands but can't lift the machine.
Also, one of Joey's colleagues goes on and on (I think it's the first scene?) about how good-looking he is and Joey complains that some old queen is always coming on to him.
That background explains why Joey goes thermonuclear with the misogyny in last night's episode: he feels that his lack of masculinity has been exposed.
I think he's acting out of gay panic. He crudely parodies hetero sex because he has no interest in it himself (or fears that others think he lacks interest in Joan's cleavage) -- hence the need to insist so loudly on it.
-victoria
9/13/10, 1:53 PM
More memorable moments from Mrs. Ida Blankenship:
Calling Don "Roger"
The stacks of booze she had to carry, but refused help after complaining so
Don referring to her as "Ray Charles"
Loved it!
9/13/10, 1:54 PM
I think I'd like Faye if she was played by somebody else. That actress's style of acting just doesn't fit with the show's tone, and it takes me out of the story.
Loved seeing Betty and Henry happy at the end. I really like those two together.
9/13/10, 1:58 PM
I also think that Joan rejects Peggy's help because Joan -- like everyone else at the time -- hates women. Joan doesn't want to be part of a powerful sisterhood, because she believes that women can only be sexpots or shrews, not each other's allies.
Joan wouldn't join any club that would be willing to accept her as a member.
The more I see this show, the more I respect Peggy. I don't know whether it's her working class, Catholic background, or just her inherent grace and intelligence, but more and more, Peggy weathers the insults and childishness of those around her with compassion and dignity.
I also like the fact that as Joan gets less attractive (she really is starting to look more upholstered than dressed) Peggy is coming into her own as a beauty.
-victoria
9/13/10, 2:00 PM
paola said...Great acting on the part of the baby... HA!!
This is one of the few blogs where commenters use words like temerity and untenable, and I thank you all for the thoughtfulness that is put into so many of the comments. It adds one more terrific dimension to an already excellent show.
Quick note with my opinion about the "would people act this or that way in 1965" comments - especially with regard to sex. I was wacthing 1964's Sex and the Single Girl last night before Mad Men. It's a poorly written and badly acted "comedy" starring Tony Curtis, Natalie Wood, Henry Fonda and Lauren Bacall. I was struck by the relatively modern look of the clothing and some of the sexual attitudes. Nothing completely shocking, but a good reminder to me of the changes taking place in society even before Woodstock, the British Invasion and the other usual cultural markers.
Some of the sexual innuendo in old Hollywood movies from the 30's & 40's is also pretty wild stuff. Pre-Hayes Code pictures are a real eye opener. I still stumble across old movies from time to time where a line of dialogue surprises the hell out of me and makes me laugh out loud at the sexual frankness.
9/13/10, 2:00 PM
"They use live ammunition, don't they?"
A bit of basic training foreshadowing, perhaps? I don't think MM would be that blatant, but the thought of Dr. Greg and friendly fire made me cheer a bit.
9/13/10, 2:04 PM
@Kat Galore: "On the other hand, the "Peyton Place" scene with Joey could've been just to show the irony of Joey thinking he was sexually harassed, when in fact he's the harasser."
Good catch on that parallel!
I also thought of the "skydiver" and the falling through the water as a reflection of the opening credits.
It's hard to see Joan become less likable. in a late 50s, early 60s context, I respected how she'd found her way. She had power when that wasn't easy to get. But now she seems like what I've always called "boy girls"--women who can only relate to men, and only through flirting. They're dismissive of other women b/c they can't be manipulated with a wink and some cleavage.
But they're giving us back Strong Don, maybe we can get back Strong Joan, too!
9/13/10, 2:05 PM
yikes, did anyone else notice that in the overhead shot of Don enjoying his sleep alone, he's in the same position as the falling man in the opening creds?
9/13/10, 2:06 PM
Oh, and meant to add: I think part of what makes Bethany feel too modern is her speech. Something about her accent or way of speaking just sounds too current. Can't put my finger on it. Any linguists out there?
And yes, Bill, I love that I can get more out of the comments here than I get out of 3 or 4 postings by Slate writers.
9/13/10, 2:20 PM
Anon @ 1:22 said
Don did not give Peggy authority as a gift--It was her job--he reminded her that she had to take responsibility for firing people who work for her if they step over the line. He could have done it (since he is her boss and thus senior to both Peggy and Joey in the Creative division of the agency).
You're right, and I should have been more clear. I just meant that Don sort of gave Peggy permission to fire him - not because she officially needed Don's approval, but because I don't think it had occurred to her that she could really do that. I mean, maybe she knew that technically she could, but she has never exercised that kind of power over another person, male or female.
What's interesting is that Joan has. We've seen her fire secretaries, so she's used to wielding that particular hammer of authority. But, like Peggy, if she did have that kind of official authority to fire a man in Joey's position, I don't know if she would be able to bring herself to do it. I think in her own mind she is still just a "lowly" secretary. And the funny thing is, I get the feeling that she probably does wield enough authority among the people that matter at SCDP that she could fire a freelancer because of his crappy attitude and be completely justified.
Think of it this way: If Joan had actually told Joey he was fired, and Joey went crying to Don like he claimed he would with Peggy, do you really think that Don would gainsay Joan's decision? He trusts that Joan knows what she's doing when it comes to running the office. I honestly believe that he would defer to her judgment.
Peggy and Joan are both being given new and exciting career opportunities, but while Peggy is making the most of her by being flexible and learning as she goes, Joan can't quite figure out how to adjust to the new rules. It's frustrating, yet fascinating, to watch.
9/13/10, 2:26 PM
I've been waiting for someone to mention the final scene where Don is holding baby Gene, who seems to not all know this man and is wondering why his mom handed him over to him. This is reinforced in one of the pre-show flash-backs where Don is picking up the kids, except for Gene, and telling Betty that he'd like to see him. It's obvious that Don and Gene have had no bonding time together.
And I don't think it's a case of not being able to get a two-year-old to "act" for the cameras. I feel it was a very conscious decision of the director to show that this baby has absolutely no connection with his father.
9/13/10, 2:35 PM
I'll take a "Sam Page-Christopher Stanley" sandwich, please.
9/13/10, 2:36 PM
Enjoying everyone's insightful comments here, as usual. TLo, you get the hippest crowd. :)
9/13/10, 2:39 PM
Melissa said:
I think I'd like Faye if she was played by somebody else. That actress's style of acting just doesn't fit with the show's tone, and it takes me out of the story.
**********************
I'm with you. I don't care for the character or the actress playing her. She's distracting but not in a good way. I think she's miscast here. Her tone and vibe absolutely do not fit for me either.
otherwise, again TLo a fabulous recap.
9/13/10, 2:39 PM
Thoughts/questions --
(1) Don pushing his nose out of the way -- I took this to be some sort of reference to the mafia/mob. But others are saying it means wiseguy??
(2) Is Dr. Miller really supposed to be Jewish? (since she used a Yiddish phrase) I didn't get that before. Given how racist everyone was to the Menkens, I would have thought there'd be a lot more comments about her religion if that were the case.
(3) I may be the only one, but I don't hate Greg. Yes, he made a huge mistake back before he and Joan were married. But, I think he's proven himself to be at least a husband who loves his wife and is trying to be good to her. If he dies and leaves Joan a widow, it'll be very sad.
(4) What was with the Margaret Mead comment? I know who Margaret Mead is, but I didn't get the reference.
9/13/10, 2:43 PM
Joan doesn't have any women friends at work because she's spent so much time lording her power over them in the workplace and, in some ways, devaluing them.
Good for the writers for planting the seed for this storyline back when Lane said Joan's charms didn't work on him.
9/13/10, 2:48 PM
Oh, Don. He's trying so hard! He's even eating now if you dare call Dinty Moore food.
I thought this was a perfectly nice episode. Not a favorite, but still resonated with me.
I think my favorite part was the final swimming scene, when Don uses all that he has to pull ahead of the younger man in the lane next to him. And then, the young man just lunges back into the water, ready to go again. Don's too old, too beat up for that. Too old to just start over, he's got to deal with the hand that's been dealt to him.
Also, my heart broke for Joanie. She's going through her own mid-life crisis, similar to Don. Her old weapons don't work anymore either. And while a man can have a sort of rebirth in his middle age, it's not the same for women, especially in 1965.
It's almost like we're seeing Joan's demise as we see Don's resurgence. It wasn't too long ago that they were equals, is their own way.
All in all, I'm excited to see what next Sunday brings! What a terrific season.
9/13/10, 2:49 PM
"I agree with comment about being gobsmacked by Henry's temerity in demanding Don remove those boxes from the home he owns as a mere tenant. Further illustrates Don's adultness in this episode."
I saw it more as Don's realization and willingness to admit that that portion of his life was over and that he was moving on. It corresponds with all the new light and clensing in this episode.
9/13/10, 2:54 PM
Paula -- I agree completely that when Don was talking about baby Gene he was also thinking about himself as a child. He really doesn't want Gene to have the kind of childhood Don had. I was so happy that he went to Gene's party anyway.
I have to feel sorry for Joan. She has no real friends and doesn't seem to know she could use some. Often really beautiful women see others as competition and don't trouble to learn friendship skills. It's only when they're older and their beauty doesn't attract men so much that they become aware of just how alone they are.
9/13/10, 2:54 PM
Henry said he would put the boxes in storage and deduct the cost from the rent. Presumably they are now tenants in Don's house. They aren't living there for free--and they are only living there because Betty won't leave.
9/13/10, 2:54 PM
Paula -- I agree completely that when Don was talking about baby Gene he was also thinking about himself as a child. He really doesn't want Gene to have the kind of childhood Don had. I was so happy that he went to Gene's party anyway.
I have to feel sorry for Joan. She has no real friends and doesn't seem to know she could use some. Often really beautiful women see others as competition and don't trouble to learn friendship skills. It's only when they're older and their beauty doesn't attract men so much that they become aware of just how alone they are.
9/13/10, 2:55 PM
"Betty’s “We have everything.” is ironic because she does have everything and it is weighing her down while Don has nothing and so he can fly."
I couldn't help remembering a scene from several season back where Peggy was fighting her way up and being scolded once again by Don in his office. She was feeling that life was unfair and said to him ruefully
, "You have everything, and so much of it". She would have been surprised at the time to know how little Don really had.
9/13/10, 2:57 PM
Bill said...
Some of the sexual innuendo in old Hollywood movies from the 30's & 40's is also pretty wild stuff. Pre-Hayes Code pictures are a real eye opener. I still stumble across old movies from time to time where a line of dialogue surprises the hell out of me and makes me laugh out loud at the sexual frankness.
Hello Bill,
Like yourself, I LOVE Pre-Code movies. Have you checked out the Pre-Code Hollywood DVDs that are available at Turner Classic and Barnes&Noble? They are real gems to watch.
9/13/10 2:00 PM
9/13/10, 3:01 PM
"The more I see this show, the more I respect Peggy. I don't know whether it's her working class, Catholic background"
As much as she distains her family, they have given Peggy a good foundation to build upon.
9/13/10, 3:04 PM
I didn't even know Don's apartment had windows!
9/13/10, 3:10 PM
I liked the furhter glimpse we got as to what exactly Joan's position is with SCDP. I found Peggy's line that "Joan and Lane pretty much run the company" to be very telling.
Sounds like Joan is the 60's version of an HR director. Did they have those in the 60's? OR was that kind of position just coming to be? Sorry, child of the 80's asking.
9/13/10, 3:10 PM
Jessica said:
(2) Is Dr. Miller really supposed to be Jewish?
- I am beginning to think that yes, she's Jewish in Gentile clothing. The Yiddishisms (said in a "private" conversation), the "wise-guy" reference to her shop owner father who isn't in the mob, but is mob-adjacent; the broadening of her accent. Her upward mobility via intellect and a good education (as opposed Peggy who didn't go to college, but uses her native smarts to get ahead). She's got something to "hide" and Don is drawn to that. And, perhaps without knowing it, he's drawn to her "outside-ness" as he was to Rachel Menken. Henry Francis may have hated Nazi's, but not necessarily out of love for the Jews and in the 60's, Jews were still definitely outsiders.
(4) What was with the Margaret Mead comment? I know who Margaret Mead is, but I didn't get the reference.
- I think it meant that Peggy was observing "men as apes" in their habitat - using physical prowess to hunt for their prey and best each other.
9/13/10, 3:15 PM
Paula -- I agree completely that when Don was talking about baby Gene he was also thinking about himself as a child. He really doesn't want Gene to have the kind of childhood Don had. I was so happy that he went to Gene's party anyway.
I have to feel sorry for Joan. She has no real friends and doesn't seem to know she could use some. Often really beautiful women see others as competition and don't trouble to learn friendship skills. It's only when they're older and their beauty doesn't attract men so much that they become aware of just how alone they are.
9/13/10, 3:23 PM
Too funny that Betty and Bethany (even similar names!) were dressed and coiffed to be almost twins. Although Bethany took it as a good sign, I think that moment probably sank her chances with Don. Talk about your life flashing before your eyes!
9/13/10, 3:26 PM
Harry's office -- what's up with that? I thought he and Joey were meeting in some hotel somewhere from the look of the furniture, but when the camera panned back it was the same fabulous SCDP that everyone else inhabits.
It was great to see Francine again. Didn't know if we would ever be so lucky again. She's a doll.
Can't believe baby Gene is already 2! I was thinking it must be his 1st birthday. It really has been a long, hard fall for Don Draper since the divorce.
--Itsjustme
9/13/10, 3:26 PM
Joan's best days are behind her. Her poor husband will be one of the first casualties of the war. And Henry is going to conk out in the bedroom with his shrill little plastic wife Betty.
9/13/10, 3:32 PM
Didn't study any anthropology so I was inspired to learn more about Margaret Mead today. I'm thinking Weiner has probably read a lot of her work. One of her quotes -
"What people say, what people do, and what they say they do are entirely different things. "
I think that pretty much sums it all up!
9/13/10, 3:32 PM
Itsjustme - Absolutely hotel furniture! I was wondering if Harry swiped the furniture from the hotel suite they worked in when they first started the company. (Maybe he really IS a cheapskate!)
The only friend Joan has at work is Roger. And now her husband's away, and he's generally discontented with his life. I predict some rekindling there.
9/13/10, 3:33 PM
Lattis said...
"I didn't even know Don's apartment had windows!"
***************************************************
I know, really! For a moment, I actually thought Don was sitting somewhere else, like a cafe or coffee shop (like a Starbucks, circa now).
A good episode, but not great. It did have some wonderful moments though. I like the idea that they're finally getting to how Don and Betty are actually "feeling" as opposed to "doing" since their divorce. Life goes on, but I think there are still unresolved feelings on both their sides.
edina
9/13/10, 3:34 PM
Margaret Meade was an anthropologist who studied Samoan culture. She lived among the Samoans but was able to look at them from a social scientist's perspective, just as Peggy is observing the men.
I believe Peggy is simply referring to the situation of watching a totally foreign culture participate in its rituals.
Hope
9/13/10, 3:34 PM
BBoop:
Peggy's family haven't given her something to build on. They've given her something to consider and reject. That she can do so is a testament to her strength as a person, not to their treatment of her or their "superior family values". Her sister does seem to genuinely love her though, and if she doesn't quite understand, she at least tries. Her mother is very busy proclaiming the rights of the matriarch. I know the types. Regrettably.
9/13/10, 3:39 PM
Squeazil,
In those days, HR was called Personnel. The Director of Personnel was a department head, and the power of the position probably varied with the company.
I can't recall when it changed -- I think the mid-seventies -- but I remember thinking Human Resources??? It sounded so ridiculously pretentious.
Hope
9/13/10, 3:40 PM
I think Faye's accent is a tip-off of her Jewishness. Very much the professional, like Rachel Menken, they both inhabit a world where Jewish women were expected to be educated, if not necessarily have a career outside the home. The "go shit in the ocean" comment definitely places her, since I've never heard anyone who isn't Jewish say it! Her clothes aren't "gentile" to me; these are clothes that my mom and her friends wore in the 60s.
As an outsider himself, I think Don is definitely attracted to Jews. Remember in the first season, he was reading "Exodus" to prepare for a possible Jewish client. The casual anti-Semitism in the series bothers me when I hear it, but that's the way it was in the workplace. I loved how Danny gave it right back to Harry last week about the fight tickets.
Thanks, anonymous, for answering the Margaret Mead question. I was about to go on some long-winded explanation about "Coming of Age in Samoa" and "Sex and Temperament in Three Primitive Societies," but it wasn't necessary. Mead was a cultural anthropologist who explored a range of sexual and societal behaviors in different cultures, and Peggy is savvy enough to have known about Mead's work when watching her co-workers act in their unruly urban hunting-and-gathering mode (for themselves, of course).
9/13/10, 3:43 PM
Just one tiny addition to add to the thoughtful, reflective conversations: I loved that Don literally brought the elephant into the room when he entered Gene's birthday party. Why only have one looming elephant when you could have a cute, stuffed one, too?
These MM posts are the best part of my Monday. Thanks to TLo and everyone for the insights. Jules
9/13/10, 3:47 PM
I'm thrilled that Don's journal is largely mundane! It reminds me of the journal I decided to keep when I was first pregnant. I had grand hopes of pithy insight, beautifully expressed, but in the end it deteriorated to how much weight I was gaining and what I was eating and name choices.
Don's occasional insights ring truer because of all the chaff, I think. Maybe it's just wishful thinking given my own poor performance.
Hope
9/13/10, 3:53 PM
Okay, I totally did not get this until after reading through the comments. I got Joey's projection of Joan as his mother based on similarities between his mom and Joan, but what I didn't realize watching the show is that maybe the scene where Joey claims there's always some old fruit trying to come on to him was projection as well. Is it possible that Joey's father (with the fabulous, sexual goddess of a mother who wears a pen pendant around here neck so men will look at her tits) is playing on our team? Was that telling us Joey's dad is an old flamer? If not, that whole scene between Joey and Harry doesn't make any sense to me (unless it's merely to show that Harry's about to go full-on Hollywood and leave the firm).
9/13/10, 3:54 PM
Oh Shannon, I agree with you absolutely, there is still very much that sentiment around where unmarried/childless (or even just childless) women are concerned. I remember attending my 20th high school reunion several years ago...no one batted an eye at our classmate being a prominent lesbian commercial producer but that another classmate was an unmarried teacher was met with a literal chorus of 'oh, that's too bad'
Also slightly off topic and not...I ran into a former coworker of mine earlier (I worked in newspaper advertising, he was in news) told me (as we discussed Mad Men, of course) that when Gloria Vanderbilt gave birth to Anderson Cooper, there was concern that running it as a news item here in St louis would be 'unseemly' given her age (mid 40s)
-Cake
9/13/10, 3:56 PM
After watching this episode I want to state for the record that there should be a scene every week with Jon Hamm tossing a baby around, looking as happy as anyone could be and the perfect picture of fatherhood.
I cannot believe noone here seemed as creeped out as I did by Sally's pathetic little wave. I feel so anxious for where they're going with this character.
9/13/10, 4:09 PM
You know what this episode made me nostalgic for this week? The fact that you could just fire someone for whatever reason whatsoever. The fact that if someone were not performing to standard you could fire them without having had to file "incident reports" and prove you'd had to talk to them on numerous occasions in your office (with another manager present) over egregious behavior, etc. If someone drove everyone nuts and noone got along with (thereby creating a less productive workplace) you could just fire them without having to worry about the inevitable lawsuit that would arise nowadays. And for those of you who are thinking of getting on here and posting that there was no job security, just stop. There may be many laws and regulations that keep this thing from happening now and yet, even now, in the time we live in, job security is little more than a myth. I'd take my chances back then. You did your job and you got to keep your job. You earned your paycheck. Nowadays, everyone who shows up have a sense of entitlement to their paycheck. They think coming in to work is enough whether they do any work or not. And if you don't believe that you've never worked in a service industry where you could only laughingly refer to the "work ethic" of the students and young people entering the workforce.
9/13/10, 4:33 PM
I know Joan is having a rough time now and people are predicting her husband's death in Vietnam. I'm more afraid he'll come back with Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome. Can you imagine the horror of that?
9/13/10, 4:39 PM
I would have more respect for Joan's viewpoint if in fact she had been at all effective. Instead, her attempts to undermine Joey by deflecting her negative opinions onto others were completely dismissed. And yelling at a bunch of guys "I hate you and I wish you were dead!" is not "handling it" -- it's having a tantrum, no less childish and no more productive than Betty's.
Thanks to those who pointed out that "go shit in the ocean" is translated from the Yiddish. When Dr. Faye revealed her dad was mob-connected, I was all, "Huh? But her name's Miller, she's not Italian." But there were indeed Jewish mobsters, so now it all makes sense.
However, I don't believe that a professional woman would shout "go shit in the ocean" in a phone booth outside the door of one of her clients.
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