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Controversy! (Spoilerish/Updated!)

Look, we have to find SOMETHING to talk about, don't we?


So, here's the deal. Irina shows Tim her silkscreened "Conney" Island t-shirts when he comes for his visit.

Later, in a totally spontaneous and not at all staged scene, Tim calls her to tell her that:

"I just learned from the producers and their attorney that the Coney Island images that you're using, those are trademarked [...] therefore, you don't have the right to incorporate them into your clothing collection [...] I want you to use it but with images that are your own."

When she shows up for Fashion Week, she shows Tim her revised idea, which is to write all the reasons to love New York on the pieces. Tim quotes one: "'Reasons to love NY'...is that Madonna is back?"

Now, to fully explain, we're going to have to show you one of the pieces from her finale collection. If you don't want to see it, don't scroll down.







Now, using our crack CSI team here at T Lo International, here's some of what we can make out on the shirt:

"Because Robert Moses would have a coronary if he could see our streets now."

"Because people will still do crazy things to live here."

"Because [something something] is our play pen."

"Because just when you take the Empire State Building for granted, it seduces you again."

"Because even in these times, [something something]."

"Because we're resilient."

The problem? Every single one of these sentences was lifted from a December 2008 article from New York Magazine entitled "Reasons to Love New York."

We're not attorneys, but it would seem to us that this material falls under the same protection laws that prevented her from using the Coney Island image. Further, because she was told not to use the image, she can't really claim ignorance on this matter. Which means she deliberately used copyrighted material a second time after being told once by the producers that she was forbidden to do so.

What does this mean for the outcome of the contest? Time will tell, but since she was allowed to show these pieces in her collection, it would appear that she wasn't caught at the time. If she turns out to be the winner of the season, the producers could have a problem on their hands.

Discuss.


[Photos: firstVIEW.com - Screencaps: Projectrungay.blogpost.com]



Related: Reasons to Love New York 2008 [NYMag]
UPDATE: Irina’s Project Runway Shirt Knocks Us Off [The Cut]



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430 comments:
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Oh, geez. Come on, Irina....you couldn't even bother to come up with your own reasons to love New York? Wasn't there even a letter or an essay you wrote in high school or something not copy-righted that you could've put on the shirt instead? Maybe a short poem, written by you? It wouldn't even have to be a good one. Seriously!


I think she should get nailed for stealing Catwoman's hat.


Highly amusing coming from someone who accused a lot of people of NOT coming up with their own ideas.


Called it, Booyah!


My question is: Why didn't she say anything to Tim when he brought the Madonna quote up? A little shady, no?


yup. you guys are absolutely right!
copyright infringement.

ignorance is never a defense.
but she can't even pretend because she was told beforehand.

and did she still use the birds from the coney island image? hmmm.......


This could be the first epp. of Law and Order Prissy Gay Unit
CHUNG CHUNG
SHE'S A FRAUD!!!!!


I didn't understand how they could show her Coney Island image if it was copyrighted.

I predict there will be complete silence from the PR people about this.


Hopefully she had enough sense to contact nymag and get their permission.

Sigh... poor Season 6, because regardless how this pans out it still ain't no Kenley-Alexander McQueen.


Lets face it, the girl doesn't have an original idea in her vapid little head. Not at all surprised at her using copyrighted material.

I agree with JulieB, they're not going to say a word about this. Hopefully, this season will just die and we'll never have to think about it again. Bleah. What a letdown.


"Highly amusing coming from someone who accused a lot of people of NOT coming up with their own ideas."

I think this is what you call accusing your enemies of your own worst sins.


hopefully, IT MAKES FOR A DECENT EPISODE FOR ONCE. while i personally have nothing against irina, but i've always enjoyed watching the, um, more headstrong and highly opinionated designers, squirm under the collective gaze of nina, heidi, and michael; considering the fact that the producers have had their many, many appendages all over this season, if this does prove to be a problem, i would be incredibly disappointed if blood and guts don't fly during judging.


Ooh, controversy, I love it!

Honestly, though, how dumb do you have to be to use copywritten (copyrighted?) material after being told once not to. I understand how someone could not realize that images of Coney Island are trademarked, but how could you not know that publishing someone else's writing on your t-shirt is plagiarism??? Unless she officially licenced it from NY Magazine? With the money she had leftover for the collection? 10 days before the show?


I'm not a lawyer and it would be interested to hear from one because looking at her final collection she still she used the birds. Isn't that still illegal?


JulieB said...I predict there will be complete silence from the PR people about this.

Yup, either way, because even if it was OK to use the quotes, they are probably so eager to have 'the most talked about season of Project Runway' actually get talked about that they have no reason to weigh in.


The birds might have been royalty-free vector clip art. Bird vector images are a dime a dozen... or in this case... free.

I think she probably attained permission, but it does bother me that she said they were "her thoughts" on the show.


Ya know, I wouldn't really care (other than the fact that its unethical) except for the the fact that twice now Irena has accused Althea of copying her.

"Hello, Irina? This the pot. Just calling to tell you that, like your uninspired & totally depressing collection, you are black."


I didn't understand how they could show her Coney Island image if it was copyrighted.

It's much easier to obtain permission to show a copyrighted image once on television than it is to get permission to use it in a clothing line. The permissions fee would presumably also have had to come out of Irina's budget if the image was used in the collection, and those fees aren't at all cheap.

I imagine Lifetime and the producers will frantically work to make this right behind the scenes, and this won't result in a lawsuit. But it reflects very poorly on Irina, and if she ends up winning there's going to be a lot of ill feeling.


I honestly think she is THAT stupid and doesn't think using someone else's words on clothing is wrong.

I mean, otherwise, why risk not winning PR?? The shirts aren't THAT great.


How is it that she finally got the notion of "image" but apparently couldn't grasp the larger concept of "protected"? Is she really that much of a dim bulb, or what?

Also, how will we know if she got permission to use these quotes? Is this the big thrilling moment in the final Season 6 episode, or is this something the producers totally missed? Just think. Possibly the first PR finale with a "Doublecheat".

However, I'm reluctant to trash and bash her without somebody tracking down whether she got permission to use these quotes.

Otherwise, I'd happily fill up an entire column with blustering outrage and needle-sharp sarcasm.

But this certainly looks bad. Very, very bad.

Good catch, TLo.


This may be the closest we get to excitement since Kara Saun got called on the carpet for putting a $5 price tag on custom designed shoes.


Boy, TLo, you weren't kidding - those quotes are word for word lifted from that article. I'm not a lawyer (like Erin Brockovich, I just work for 'em, lol), but I would think New York Magazine would have a problem with that!

Plus, who the heck doesn't know how to spell Coney Island??


Do we know Irina didn't get permission from the author or mag to use the quotes?
I once found the perfect song lyric to use in an art piece, and sent a quick email to the author. He was more than happy to let me use the words, as long as I gave him credit.
Maybe the author's name is stamped on the back (or that tag) of that T-shirt...Maybe? OK--being optomistic here. I think she blew it....!


I don't blame Irina for thinking those images of Coney Island were public domain, since they are so old. I loved her idea.

Graphic designers use pre-existing imagery all the time, it does not make them uncreative. Irina still had to separate the image into different layers to create the separate screens for each color, as well as choose the colors and perhaps alter the graphics in some way so they fit in a t-shirt.

I agree she should have made sure 100% that those images were copyright-free before even thinking of using them.

Instead of changing ideas. She could have gone to Coney Island herself and taken photographs and use those photos to create the graphics for the silkscreens.


This is what The Cut (New York Magazine's Fashion Blog) said:

"One note: When Irina was forced to change her Brooklyn T-shirt design, she copied yet another famous device, our "Reasons to Love New York" issue. She even calls it “Reasons to Love.” We don’t mind, really, but for someone who’s so bent on proving that Althea is copying her, Irina’s quite liberal with her own “inspiration.” But we’re not bitter — how could we be, when Tim is around to utter lines like “We’re walking to Mood, using our feet — this is New York!” We’ll learn the outcome and the winner next week. Can’t wait!"


Pretty sure she won, since (A) her collection is cohesive, (B) it's sportsware, (C) Althea's collection is, to my mind quite disappointing and Carol Hannah's is not well-rounded, and (D) the judges have loved her every move, even the bad ones.

Also pretty sure she didn't ask permission: New York Magazine just commented on her plagiarism but didn't mention giving permission.

She and/or the producers are going to have to pay out retroactively. Pretty sure they didn't catch this prior to BP.


Original photo: http://dofb.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/con-cyclone.jpg

No birds.


"This could be the first epp. of Law and Order Prissy Gay Unit"

LOL. I would TOTALLY watch L&O:PGU.

I hope she gets called on it. She could have scribbled ANYTHING.

And that is totally cat woman's hat.


Oh, this is so delicious that it HAS to be fattening.

Kudos to FashionFanatic for making another excellent point. xD


The thing I find most hilarious is the fact while this collection was supposed to be inspired all about Irina's love of New York, she A) misspells "Coney Island," an easy word and a place she spent most of her youth, and then B) could not even come up with her own reasons to love New York and had to steal someone else's. And yes, all of that on top of her accusing Althea of copying simply because she also made sweaters. God, what a bitch. I pray pray pray that she does not win. Team Althea!!!


for text she just as to write the person's name from whom she is quoting. Also, she is not "selling" these shirts so she doesnt have to worry about breaching copyright.

Images work differently.


This is crazy. What she is doing is bad enough, because no matter what she says she cannot claim ignorance. Unless she says that she got permission, but I seriously doubt she would have obtained permission not only to use the words, but to call them her own.

But what she is doing is so much worse considering all of her "their copying me" scheming and whining. Like Althea said, "I copied you psychically from Ohio." *rolls eyes*

Alexis said...

This could be the first epp. of Law and Order Prissy Gay Unit
CHUNG CHUNG
SHE'S A FRAUD!!!!!


I want to be an extra on that show and I would SO watch it. Hell, I'd start a fan page. Looking for admins, who's with me? LMAO!!!


Anon, can you give the link to NYMag's comment on her plagarism? I was just on that site and couldn't find anything discussing it.


PLUS, in my humble opinion of course, her collection? It looks like a mix of Jillian and PPS ~ Now with 50% less Fierceness!!


"MouseAnony said...

Anon, can you give the link to NYMag's comment on her plagarism? I was just on that site and couldn't find anything discussing it."

Just scroll up. Isabella posted the link.


Hypocritical much? People never cease to amaze me.


As I understand it, the "Conney Island" drawing was her original work. The copyright issue was due to the owners of the Cyclone, etc., having trademarked the actual device. I can understand that she might not have known that. The plagiary is another issue entirely: who doesn't learn by seventh grade that you just don't do that?


Do we know Irina didn't get permission from the author or mag to use the quotes?

I secure permission to use quotations as part of my job. For commercial usage, you pretty much have to get permission (from the publisher, not the author; authors normally sign their rights over) for everything. Fees for small excerpts can, depending on the context, run into the thousands of dollars. And permission usually isn't granted to use such large excerpts all at once.

So no, she almost certainly didn't get permission.


HA. it is kind of annoying that Irina can't come up with her own ideas...


Irina is such a suckweasel.


Oh, come on. Fair use.


" So said...

Oh, come on. Fair use."

This doesn't fall under fair use.


Law and Order Prissy Gay Unit
L&O:PGU
Yeah, I'll be smiling for the rest of the day!


honesty.not.pc

Obviously she lacks in what elementary school we call "listening skills". The rules of project runway are not difficult to understand but every season there is some kind of issue.

If Irina can't come up with her own reasons to love NY then maybe she is jst a poser and should have chosen a different topic.

it is not a good thing when you are both a bitch and an idiot who can't follow explicit instructions.


If she wrote the name of the writer of the piece on the shirt(s), then it's not "stealing ideas." She's not selling the collection. We can't see the entire shirt.

And who knows? Maybe the production team caught it before she showed, and that'll be additional drama on the next part of the finale. A little early to call foul, don't you think?


That's really hilarious/sad. I saw that she was thinking about using part of the silkscreened image (just the birds) for her design, as if that wasn't stealing either.


I think I read that issue of NY Mag-- when I heard,"because Madonna's back" I knew she'd cadged the idea... but, she just printed the list verbatim? Stupid mean girl.

And, as a New Yorker, did she really misspell Coney as "Conney"? Stupid mean girl.


Oh, come on. Fair use.

Fair use is not usually applicable in a commercial context--there are exceptions for parody and criticism, but if the object is to make a profit, people who use copyrighted work almost always have to pay for it.

There is zero chance that a fair use defense would hold up in court in this case.


I wonder if producers will go back, since this broke, and re-edit the final episode to show more of the t-shirts, to milk the controversy for all its worth, or obliterate it as much as possible?
(Ala Bravo/Magical Elves and the Marcel Head Shaving Incident/Assault.)


She lives in NY and she spelled it "Conney" Island? Well we may not (yet)have proof that she's a cheat, but she's certainly proven herself to be dumb.


will someone please send me a link to either the post on TLO or a post elsewhere showing the final collections? i'm sure it has been posted somewhere but all of my sleuthing is not paying off. thankkk you!


If Irina's rehash is illegible, we need only refer back to the 2008 source:

"Because the avant garde is our playpen."

"Because even in these times, people are still opening stores."

"Because if you have to do an homage to your hometown of Dayton Ohio, there's less source material to rip-off."


Good grief, I live in Texas and I could come up with fifty reasons to love New York just from the movies.

How lazy can one woman be?


She's an idiot just for misspelling Coney Island. What sucks is that I think her collection is the strongest of the 3 and will win UNLESS she's disqualified for the plagiarism, which isn't very likely.


Final Collections, http://projectrungay.blogspot.com/search/label/Season%206%20Finale%20Collections


Usman said: "for text she just as to write the person's name from whom she is quoting. Also, she is not "selling" these shirts so she doesnt have to worry about breaching copyright."

Not so, Usman. That might work for quoting pieces of a novel for critical review, which would make it fair use, but lifting a large section of material for any use without the owner's permission constitutes breach of copyright. Making money only effects whether or not they can collect damages. If she wins money because of these designs, the magazine can sue for a piece of it.

And, anything with over 10 copies made and worth over $2500 is a felony. How many shirts did she make, and what's a writer for NY Magazine get paid per piece?


Making money only effects whether or not they can collect damages. If she wins money because of these designs, the magazine can sue for a piece of it.

There is value to showing a collection at Bryant Park and on Lifetime regardless of whether she wins prize money, and the magazine is entitled to payment on that basis.


Maybe she asked for permission? However, it seems unlikely.


Including a source attribution on the shirt would keep it from being plagiarism (which is an attempt to pass off someone else's work as your own), but it wouldn't keep it from being copyright infringement (which is the unauthorized use of someone else's creative product).


Melissa said...

Including a source attribution on the shirt would keep it from being plagiarism (which is an attempt to pass off someone else's work as your own), but it wouldn't keep it from being copyright infringement (which is the unauthorized use of someone else's creative product).


My only problem with this is that she told Tim, on tape, on national television, that they were HER thoughts. She still took credit for them.


Isabella said...
This is what The Cut (New York Magazine's Fashion Blog) said:

"One note: When Irina was forced to change her Brooklyn T-shirt design, she copied yet another famous device, our "Reasons to Love New York" issue. She even calls it “Reasons to Love.” We don’t mind, really, but for someone who’s so bent on proving that Althea is copying her, Irina’s quite liberal with her own “inspiration.” But we’re not bitter — how could we be, when Tim is around to utter lines like “We’re walking to Mood, using our feet — this is New York!” We’ll learn the outcome and the winner next week. Can’t wait!"

11/14/09 1:57 PM


WOW.

So Irina really DID copy from New York Magazine?

WELL THEN. That's different. Now I can feel free to eviscerate her.

Based on NYMag's confirmation that she lifted their work without permission, it's my opinion that she's a pea-brained idiot for doing so.

This is just a colossal lapse of judgement.

What if NYMag had taken umbrage? What if NYMag had tried to stop the airing of the PR finale unless all images of the copyrighted material were removed? NYMag clearly is being a good sport, here, but I believe it would have the right to demand exactly that.

Or, what if she'd come out with an entire line already and had to recall it?

As it is, this is bad enough. To be caught copying TWICE in the came challenge? And, here's the thing. She was already WARNED about plagiarism by Tim Gunn once, and forced to change her garment.
So she proceeded to do what? Simply turn around and plagiarized somebody else?

WHAT?

What is she, brain dead? Delusional? Or just stupid?

Has she never learned the first rule of buisness, "Protect Thy Butt"?

One thing is clear. She's made Project Runway history. She's a DOUBLECHEAT.

Now she's fairly raised the question of whether anybody should ever hire her, because she COPIES without having obtained prior permission. We already have two dead-to-rights examples of it, fer cryin' out loud. She could be perceived as a potential liability rather than as a potential asset.

And, her behavior certainly raises the issue of whether any of her designs were copied as well. The woman's lack of respect for other people's images and creative output has now been documented, so this isn't exactly a far-fetched next question.

So, let's go there: Is anything she did totally original at all?

All you fashion historians out there: verify!


Courtney said...
will someone please send me a link to either the post on TLO or a post elsewhere showing the final collections? i'm sure it has been posted somewhere but all of my sleuthing is not paying off. thankkk you!
-------

Took me awhile to figure this out, too. Look at the bottom of this page, lower RH corner under Project Runway there is a link to Finale Collections.


Is it possible she misspelled Coney Island on the first shirts on purpose to avoid copyright issues, but without initially realizing that the images also fell under copyright (in all seriousness -- I feel like generally people are more aware of names being protected, but not images)? As others have said, hopefully she checked ahead with those quotes...


I guess I'm confused. Wouldn't the producers check on the viability of anything she did to replace the Coney Island images? Unless Irina said she wrote all of it herself and is now busted it is impossible to know whether this is an issue or not. What Bunim-Murray knew, ignored or received permission for is really the issue, not necessarily that Irina existing text.


...not that Irina USED existing text.


New York Magazine may be loving all the publicity. No publicity is bad publicity (someone said that...not an original Frogponder thought). Project Runway may be riding that hobbyhorse too (somebody said that too) and are probably thankful as heck that there is some interest in the last episode because of the tempest in a teapot (somebody, yada, yada).


I dont really care that she copied the text. The actual words arent really important as the initial look of diagonal text in silver. It's just lazy/stupid that she copied recently published work verbatim.

However, I think Irina's 'I love NY' concept is a bigger fashion crime than the copying. The girl was raised in Brooklyn and lives in Manhattan, and the best collection idea she has is a tired homage NYC? Really?? At that, it barely translated through her show? Unless its an homage to cockroaches ... cause her line gives me a moulting beetle vibe.


Who cares?


"Hello, Irina? This the pot. Just calling to tell you that, like your uninspired & totally depressing collection, you are black."

Interesting....she pounded the drum constantly about people not being able to come up with their own ideas.

Thou protest too much?


Anonymous said...
Is it possible she misspelled Coney Island on the first shirts on purpose to avoid copyright issues, but without initially realizing that the images also fell under copyright

Even if she somehow didn't realize that using a business' iconic image might somehow land her in legal hot water, copying from a magazine?

School kids are taught about plagiarism in grade school. Kids get expelled from high school and college for cheating by copying. Schools now use an electronic text-comparison program to scan coursework papers for plagiarism. IMO, it is not possible to be a reasonably informed citizen of this country and not even be dimly aware that there might be something wrong with copying another's work.

Particularly when the issue of copying another's work had already specifically been brought to Irina's attention.

Draw your own conclusions.


It seems that NYmag is not making a big deal of it. Perhaps she will credit them with the text in the next episode. I would like to point out that she did use the text as a design element and created a very interesting pattern with it too.

~~~~~~~
This issue of the text being lifted from NY mag was pointed out by poster Al back in August. And now he has found the original photo (postcard?) the Cyclone screen was created from. Great detective work.


Based on NYMag's confirmation that she lifted their work without permission, it's my opinion that she's a pea-brained idiot for doing so.

NYMag is not confirming that she lifted their work without permission, they are just snarking on her for doing something that was not totally organic. The comment about Irina was lifted from The Cut, the fashion blog and I think the "Reasons to Love New York" was written in a separate section, methinks The Cut is trying to milk this during a time when there is not a lot going on in the fashion business.


I haven't been watching much TV, have the PR promos been pushing the controversy? If they aren't, I am going to suppose that the producers didn't catch it or are ignoring it. Or else they would be milking the controversy for all the ratings they can get. My call is that it won't be an issue.
That said, I would love for the judges to nail her for it on the runway.(I also want to hear her explain how the darkest collection I can remember is inspired by Coney Island.)
Speaking of judges, do we know who the 4th judge for the finally was? If I ever knew it, this boring season has purged it from my brain.


Sewing Siren said:

"This issue of the text being lifted from NY mag was pointed out by poster Al back in August. And now he has found the original photo (postcard?) the Cyclone screen was created from. Great detective work."

I typed "coney island" on google image search and the image was the third one on the 2nd page. Easy as pie.

I think that speaks less about great detective work on my part, an more on lazy research on Irina's part.


THIS IS THE MOST EXCITING THING TO HAPPEN IN S6.

As to the "no publicity is bad publicity" so true, now I'm somewhat intrigued to watch the season finale just so I can gasp with horror and dismay when the cheater wins.


It seems that thou protest WAY too much, Irina!

I don't think she's stupid or ignorant. I just think she does what she wants to do and hopes she doesn't get caught.

She's very fortunate NYMag isn't tearing up the show with this. I wonder if the Weinsteins slipped them a little cash on the sly to keep them happy and the show on the air.

But, seriously, if this is the best this season gets, it really is scraping the bottom of the PR barrel.


I specifically remember her telling Tim in the episode she wrote down the reasons "she" loves NY. When Tim read the "Madonna is back" line she said something about how she likes Madonna. She made it seem as if the text was her original work. She was probably thinking that no one would actually read the shirts. When it is coming down the runway you certainly can't read it. Didn't she know there would be photos of the collection all over the internet?


Are you guys allowed to reproduce the Coney Island image?

Colour me deeply confused...


Wow, just Wow! This is the kind of thing that would make Tim fiddle with the cuffs of his shirt for a long time to come.


Off topic, but I think a real controversy is this comment by Tim Gunn to the LA Times

LAT: The current season is in L.A. The next one, which was already shot, is in New York, but the season after that, you'll be back in L.A. Do you like the idea?

TG: I love the plan. We needed a booster shot, and L.A. provided it -- more than that, it gave us a whole new threshold.
---

Now I am not ready to assert that the LA setting contributed majorly to Season 6 being such a bust, but I think that there were LA sensibilities that were overemphasized and others that were minimized, so I am surprised that Tim is so bullish about LA. I would think that he would be more measured and say a politically correct version of "LA has a lot to offer and I look forward to getting another chance to do it right."


"Law and Order Prissy Gay Unit
L&O:PGU
Yeah, I'll be smiling for the rest of the day!"

I'm SO ready for the next member of the L&O family. Only other thing I watch except News and (sadly) PR.

It seems like NY Mag - The Cut column is having a chortle about this. My guess is that they knew already, and as has already been mentioned-there is no bad publicity. Chortling myself--I hope that there is some bit of discomfort for Irina. Just sayin'. Can't do anything at this point about who wins/loses. I have deliberatly avoided looking at final collections, so I'm in the dark about how they turned out.

Is it just me, or are they showing less of the collections during the pre-BP phase of the show this season. Seems like we had a good look at most of the clothes when we got to the "let's pick models and sew on hooks and eyes" portion of the show.


My problem is that when Tim read the line "Because Madonna is back" from the shirt, Irina acted like she loved Madonna so much that she'd put it on a t-shirt. IT WASN'T EVEN HER OWN THOUGHT! Yet she acted like it popped into her head and put it to fabric. She's so dishonest. And I hate it when people cheat.


We're not attorneys, but it would seem to us that this material falls under the same protection laws that prevented her from using the Coney Island image.

Well, not quite -- the design would have been trademark and the words from the article copyright -- but if she lifted identical or very similar wording from the article then you are correct that there might be another intellectual property issue.

The thing about this that seemed fishy to me was that they waited until so close to Fashion Week to tell her. I know that they don't send the designers home with their own camera crews, but wouldn't the producers and their attorneys still have been aware of the Coney Island trademark problem earlier than 10 days before Bryant Park? Sounded a little like manufactured controversy/drama to me. I sure wouldn't put it past B/M.


Creativity Chick

I've been to NY a half dozen times, and I am positive I could come up with my own reasons to love it. Additionally, the collection is all too one-note, as far as color. Where is a splash of color to represent the amazing graffiti, the lights of Broadway, the green of Central Park? I was so hoping she'd spend some of her 13th look $ on buying something to break up the smog of her collection.

About the words from the mag, I was told by a publisher that you can only use 25 words or fewer of another author's work in your own work. Even with giving credit. And many times, while an author may want to allow the use, their publishing house is not so enthusiastic!


Are you guys allowed to reproduce the Coney Island image?

THAT is fair use. The tip jar notwithstanding, TLo is not for profit, and it's OK for them to reproduce limited amounts of copyrighted material. (In fact, all of the screencaps they post are copyrighted.)


a said:
NYMag is not confirming that she lifted their work without permission, they are just snarking on her for doing something that was not totally organic. The comment about Irina was lifted from The Cut, the fashion blog and I think the "Reasons to Love New York" was written in a separate section, methinks The Cut is trying to milk this during a time when there is not a lot going on in the fashion business.

11/14/09 3:33 PM


Let's clarify. NYMag's blog "The Cut" is confirming that Irina lifted material from one of the magazine's issues.

And why are you minimizing what she did to "something not totally organic?"

What the heck is that? Some new generic term for illegal behavior? If I rob a bank, is it just doing something "not totally organic"?

Irina violated New York Magazine's copyright, according to its blog. The author of that comment was just kind enough not to use that precise terminology, preferring to soften it by using the word "lifted."

Same difference. They were just being nice. They get great publicity from the incident without saying "copyright" or "plagiarized" because it's quite clear what they're talking about anyway.


And at least for the filming, Tim does have at least one, if not bobbleheads in his office. Squee!


nancy said...
I specifically remember her telling Tim in the episode she wrote down the reasons "she" loves NY. When Tim read the "Madonna is back" line she said something about how she likes Madonna. She made it seem as if the text was her original work. She was probably thinking that no one would actually read the shirts. When it is coming down the runway you certainly can't read it. Didn't she know there would be photos of the collection all over the internet?


She did say something like that Nancy, but it was a really clipped edit. It is possible she went on to say " and then I found this cool article in NY mag..." Who knows? I'm not saying that happened, but it is possible.


In answer to Margo who thought that the "Conney" Island image was her own, it's not. If you google (image) "Coney Island Cyclone roller coaster" you get (on the second page) a link to this vintage image at http://www.westland.net/coneyisland/articles/images/con-cyclone.jpg

She copied it. She mentioned that she might try to draw a Ferris wheel, but apparently couldn't or didn't have the time. Also, I imagine that she paid to have someone actually print the t-shirts.

She probably copied the birds from somewhere too.


This is plagiarism. pure & simple. do not pass go. do not collect $100,000.

Frankly if PR/B+M/Lifetime allow her to win with this, it really will finish me with this show.

I'd rather see Ellie Mae win with her boobatrocious collection than see this kind of unethical (and stupid...like no one was gonna notice...in New York???) behavior rewarded.

one more reason to hope Dr. W. wins.

srq


(Just to clarify: Margo thought that Irina's images were Irina's own work.)


Oh, sorry, my mistake. NYMag's blog didn't use the word "lifted," it used the word "copied."


Seriously stupid.

Seriously.

Stupid.

And too bad too because her collection was definitely the best one.

--GothamTomato


"Melissa said: Including a source attribution on the shirt would keep it from being plagiarism..."




A tshirt with footnotes: Now there's an original idea!

--GothamTomato


Am I the only one who found her silk screen shirts cheap? The old images of Brooklyn and Coney Island were a lot nicer than what she ended up plagiarizing though. The final result looks like it's from Charlotte Russe.

Seriously, this is the cleverest thing a final PR designer can come up with for her final collection? As if we weren't disappointed enough with the season.


GothamTomato said...
Seriously stupid.

Seriously.

Stupid.

And too bad too because her collection was definitely the best one.

Yeah, but oh so much more interesting than Carol Hannah praying to the great white porcelain throne, right?

At last, something to goose the ratings. Lifetime must be thrilled.

And, I confess, I will actually be looking forward to the last episode with wicked glee.

Sure will be interesting to see how they handle THIS one. Wonder if Irina is forced to remove a garment or two from the collection? If the producers knew about this at the time, they couldn't just sit back and do nothing about it.

No, the real nail-biter is to see if Irina won because nobody realized it yet, so that PR unknowingly crowned its first dead-to-rights plagiarizer as a winner.

Now THIS, I gotta see.


Here is the link to NY MAG blog with the comment about Irina:

http://nymag.com/daily/fashion/2009/11/project_runway_1.html


I want to go to Conney Island and ride the Cyclonne and eat a Knnish.


the other thing that occurs to me is that while the Fashion Blog at NY magazine may be blase about this, I strongly suspect the author of the piece, the publishers of NY magazine, and most especially, the publisher's attorneys, will not be quite so laissez- faire about this.

hmmm...karma is really a bitch sometimes.

srq


This was supposed to be her tribute to growing up in New York and she couldn't come up with her own reasons? I never saw NY until I was 10 and didn't live there until I was in my 40's and I could fill a t-shirt with special things about the city. She's pathetic!


If I was Irina, I would clear this up speedy fast.

I would step up and make clear the circumstances in which I appropriated these images. Reputation is All. And stuff can haunt you for a LONG time.

I am sure I am not the only one who has seen it happen.


See this is why this season sucks! Blatant fuck up, and no one will do/has done anything about it. Wring designers went home, golden children (who I don't understand why they're golden) getting a free pass when they screw up.

Clean it up!


If New York Magagzine doesn't sue her, I'll eat my law degree.


What a cheater! I never like her at all, but now I know she will go to any end to win. Cheat!!

Plus, her hats looked just like Jillian's hats, and she was raving about them. Blech.


Karma is a bitch. (I hope.)


LOL. This is so sad.


Sewing Siren said:

This issue of the text being lifted from NY mag was pointed out by poster Al back in August. And now he has found the original photo (postcard?) the Cyclone screen was created from. Great detective work.

11/14/09 3:26 PM


SCREEEEEEEEEEEEE.

Wait a darn tootin' minute.

Somebody posted this in August? Then Lifetime, Heidi, and everybody else who saw that post must have immediately gone into damage control mode.

And they DO read TLo.

So, New York Magazine waits until YESTERDAY to mention this little bombshell on its website?

I smell a rat.

Conveniently, it comes after the first of the 2-part finale, when we've just become aware that Irina had copyright issues.

And, now that I think about it, isn't it strange that the usual 2-part finale wasn't divided up per usual? In the past, there was the "Tim visits everybody" episode, followed by the "Everybody comes to New York" espsode (except for Season 1, which made a 2-parter out of the whole process of putting a collection on the runway).

So how come they crammed JUST ENOUGH of the New York part into the traditional "visits" episode to let us know that there was a copyright issue?

Obvious Answer: So we'd be outraged when we saw Irina had done it AGAIN.

Not-so-obvious Answer: So that New York Magazine could drop that delicious little tidbit that it had been withholding by prior agreement with Lifetime and the producers of Project Runway.

Why? Because New York Magazine makes a big splash with this news, and we get some adrenaline main-veined into Project Runway at the last possible moment.

And, TLo gets the green light from Lifetime to uncork the issue and get us all talking about it. TLo has to be very creative to obfuscate that the issue is a Lifetime "plant" rather than a true case of independent detective work.

Voila! Media hype. Blog hysteria galore!

I'd bet a year's salary that that's what went on behind the scenes


For someone who complains a lot about others copying her, she's surely doing a lot of copying of others.


God MouseAnony, you have far too much time on your hands.


MouseAnony said...11/14/09 3:51 PM Let's clarify. NYMag's blog "The Cut" is confirming that Irina lifted material from one of the magazine's issues.

The key words that you left out from my post was "without permission."

And why are you minimizing what she did to "something not totally organic?"

What the heck is that? Some new generic term for illegal behavior? If I rob a bank, is it just doing something "not totally organic"?


Being non-organic is not some generic or politically correct term for illegal behavior, The Cut commentary was not focused on some grave injustice done against the publication and one of their brethren, rather they were more focused on nah nah nah nah nah nah PR6's mean girl. If she got permission then she did nothing illegal.

What Irina did was the equivalent of what rappers do when they sample another artists work. Now of course it is incumbent on them to get the proper permission and pay the appropriate fees, which Irina may or may not have done. Yes she incorporated someone else's creativity in her work, as have other designers who have gotten inspiration from paintings, ballets. literature, et. al., but there is still creativity involved, in this case Irina deciding to do a screened T-Shirt (something that is not in vogue) and also the way she actually laid it out on the T-Shirt.


Just to follow up:

Note that New York Magazine didn't have a screaming headline "Project Runway Contestant Steals Our Material" or anything like that.

Noooooooo. They buried the tiny tidbit on PAGE TWO of an innocuous-looking summary of this week's episode.

So TLo puts baits the hook Lifetime generously provides, and then everybody sits back and waits until some enterprising blogger scours the New York Magazine website to discover the "confirmation."

Now everybody has discussed copyright all day long, and the PR viewing world is up to snuff on the issue enough to be ready to appreciate what's about to happen in the final episode.

Pretty sneaky. VERY well done.


MouseAnony said...

I'd bet a year's salary that that's what went on behind the scenes


PayPal button's on the right, then.

Honestly, we don't know how you manage to come up with these grandiose schemes, but the fact of the matter is, Lifetime has never given us "the greenlight" on anything we've ever posted. Not only have they never done a thing to dictate the content of this blog, they've never even tried to dictate what we say for the T Lo Awards, which are posted on their site.

And the idea that New York Magazine would somehow orchestrate this for publicity is laughable. The reason they mentioned this yesterday is because it's the day after the show aired. Good lord.


And, now that I think about it, isn't it strange that the usual 2-part finale wasn't divided up per usual? In the past, there was the "Tim visits everybody" episode, followed by the "Everybody comes to New York" espsode
The first part of the PR finale usually has a segment or two after the designers arrive in NY, the last two seasons actually had a runway show and judging. Tim's home visits are usually only two segments of the first part of the finale.


What a capper to this season!

My feeling is that Irina is so sensitive about copying because she got caught.

It's not beyond the realm of possibility that Lifetime could have the finale revisited and re-editted. They could even declare a different winner.

If they bring this up with Irina and she does not win, I might even watch the finale to look for voiceovers and views of Heidi.

If Nina and Michael can't consistently show up for another LA season, I've regained several hours of my future life. What a shame.


Shit just got real.

Popcorn.gif


Tellingly, as I was reading the sentences above (which she told Tim were her words) I thought, "Weird, this doesn't sound like her. When did she become borderline poetic? She doesn't speak very eloquently." Figures.


Maybe they just won't announce a winner -- again ;)


I can see how this helps Lifetime and PR - ratings sagging etc. But surely the saying "any publicity is good publicity' doesn't apply to Irina in this instance. She will be remembered as a cheater. That can't be good.

If this is a manufactured story-line (well, of course it is) and Irina went along with it, she's nuts. Even one week of everybody calling her a cheater is too much. In the future, when we read the name Irina Shabayeva we'll think cheater.


She grew up in Brooklyn and kept come up with her own "I heart New York" shit?

CH for the win!

PS - she probably lifted the Coney Island graphics, which would be trademarked, but I think the name "Coney Island" is itself trademarked.


"kept" = "couldn't"

Doh.


She'll claim immigrant ingnorance or some such stupidity. Proves she'd copy just about anything from someone else, leave stiletto marks in their back, and not give a %$#*.
Not a single thing likable about this chick as far as I'm concerned.


PPS - What would a final be without "controversy?"

PPPS - This would not, of course, be illegal in Triblisi.


Presumptous Insect

Not her only theft. As I mentioned in the other thread, the whole chevron-y pattern throughout Irina's collection is stolen from LeAnne's famous skirt in the previous season!!!


I haven't read all the comments here (most though) so I'm not positive if this has been brought up. Lifetime has clearly shown the images used by Irina. The show has been edited specifically to show those images which Lifetime (or someone) must have paid for. Remember when Nick wanted to use a photo for inspiration and was told he couldn't? In my memory, we never saw that image (someone correct me if I'm wrong) not because Nick hadn't paid but because Bravo hadn't. Otherwise, they might've showed the picture and explained why it couldn't be used. This situation was clearly edited and clearly manipulated and I'd really like to know why.

I've liked a lot of Irina's work (best of these three certainly) and I had wanted her to do well based on her final collection (again, best of the three). However, I can't get past cheating.


One important thing to note:

We don't actually know yet whether these quotes were used without permission. Irina might have contacted NYMagazine, or the writer, and asked permission.

It could be that she took the quotes without permission - OR - it could be that she got permission, thinking that this would be a great marketing/publicity strategy (because what better way to get NYMagazine to give you some ink than by incorporating one of their articles into your collection).

So this is either very stupid OR very brilliant. We won't know which until Thursday night. But either way, the conspiracy theorists should probably take up knitting or something.

--GothamTomato


One. Totally what GothamTomato just said.
Two. This doesn't count as trademark infringement so much as plagiarism. So I think she's fine.


That is what I am talking about Gotham Tomatoe. That she could have permission of the author and/or magazine.
I would not put it past the show or B/M to deliberately edit it to make it appear that she is didn't. They NEED a villian.


a said...
MouseAnony said...11/14/09 3:51 PM Let's clarify. NYMag's blog "The Cut" is confirming that Irina lifted material from one of the magazine's issues.

The key words that you left out from my post was "without permission."


Good point. All the hype so far has been deliberately skewed to make us think she cheated by copying from the mag without permission.

Could be that she asked. Or that New York Magazine gave its permission after the fact. Or, without giving permission, just decided to shrug this one off, just this one time, and enjoy the publicity instead.

So I stand corrected. We do not, in fact, know if Irina got permission ahead of time, lifted the material without permission, or subsequently got permission.

To a - just because rappers borrow from other works doesn't make it any less of a copyright violation. Thus far, there has been a bit of an enforcement vacuum. That, however, is about to change. Witness the recent lawsuit over the phrase "Bow wow wow, yippie yo, yippie yeah" which was picked up and morphed into a number of songs:

http://blogs.findlaw.com/decided/2009/11/bow-wow-wow-yippie-yo-yippie-nay-atomic-dog-infringed.html


Wow. That is the laziest thing I have ever heard of. And I'm a senior in high school, so that's saying something.

Seriously, she couldn't write some little piece of crap thing? It's not like anyone's actually going to read it.


Since (in my opinion) Irina was the clear winner, it might actually liven up this season if she's forced to resign a la Vanessa Williams. We can only hope for drama!

But, honestly speaking, how myopic can one person be to plagiarize as a way to correct former plagiarism?


While we're watching the show (and knitting), we'll be listening for any last-minute voice-overs in the editing.


Who is calling Dick Wolf? Because if L&O is getting another spin off, you two can be Stabler and Benson, Tim can be Van Buren and Mood will portray the precinct house.


thank you Diana. I don't care if she lifted the quote. big freakin deal! didn't she make an entire jacket out of newspaper. Is everyone of the copywritght owners of the articles on that jacket going to sue her - and all the other pr contestants for that challenge? I just think people make a big deal out of nothing. The person who wrote the article should be flattered. I would have been.


Anonymous said...
I don't care if she lifted the quote it.


Of course you don't care, you're not the one who wrote it.

I just think people make a big deal out of nothing. The person who wrote the article should be flattered. I would have been.

Really? Would you be flattered that someone is making money off of your ideas without giving you a dime in return?


Agreed, Diana & Anon. I mean, it's not like she hired a bunch of people to sew her BP collection. Now *that* would be terrible!


Even if she had permission from NYMag, or even if she plagiarized but they laugh it off and don't sue her, she lied when she said, "I sort of... put down some of my thoughts about New York." I'll bet* Tim Gunn will never hug her again as long as she lives. Now that's real punishment.

* But not a whole year's salary.


Looks like we haven't seen the last of the Season 6 lawsuits. They would have been much better off just keeping this season in the can and tossing it in the dumpster.


oh gee wiz asukah - I really don't believe that someone would buy the shirt based on the exact wording of the quote - she could haven't written anything on there. and no, I really wouldn't care if someone used some of my work to put on a tee shirt - and I actually write. I would be flattered and buy them a drink if I saw them at a bar. it's art - it's supposed to be recycled. people think way too much of themselves. it's a freakin tee-shirt for crying out lound. she didn't hand in her master's thesis or publish the same article in the Los Angeles papers using "LA" instead of "NY"......come on...


I meant to say she could have written


crying out loud! yikes, I am the worst at typos when I'm in ahurry :)


Permission or no permission, she left that part out of her conversation with Tim. She let him believe that she came up with the idea, it might not be a reason to sue her, but it's pretty shitty from her part when she went out of her way to belittle the ones who in her mind copied her.


Anonymous said...

thank you Diana. I don't care if she lifted the quote. big freakin deal! didn't she make an entire jacket out of newspaper. Is everyone of the copywritght owners of the articles on that jacket going to sue her - and all the other pr contestants for that challenge? I just think people make a big deal out of nothing. The person who wrote the article should be flattered. I would have been.


You obviously have no conception of what "intellectual property" is, or why is such a danger for these types of incidents to occur. NY Magazine apparently brushed it off (they didn't give her permission, though it would seem) but that doesn't change what's already been observed here. Not only has she passed them off as her own musings, but the producers obviously won't tolerate intellectual property theft, as they shouldn't.

I doubt this will come to anything, unless NY Magazine decides to sue, which is unlikely. It will be just another example where the producers break the rules for no good reason.


TLo said:

Honestly, we don't know how you manage to come up with these grandiose schemes, but the fact of the matter is, Lifetime has never given us "the greenlight" on anything we've ever posted. Not only have they never done a thing to dictate the content of this blog, they've never even tried to dictate what we say for the T Lo Awards, which are posted on their site.


TLo - A red herring. I did not claim that Lifetime "dictated" your content in any forum. I spoke only of the timing of disclosures. And as for "greenlighting," semantics. Perhaps something on the order of "pre-agreement" would be more apt. And perhaps Lifetime isn't the proper entity. But you've known stuff, seen episode previews, and had advance info made available to you and/or discussed with you on the express or implied promise that you'll stay mum about it until the relevant episode has aired.

And I'd bet that if I were to scour your blog for the August comment that "a" said disclosed the copying from New York Magazine, I'd find that it had been quietly removed.

The idea that New York Magazine would somehow orchestrate this for publicity is laughable. The reason they mentioned this yesterday is because it's the day after the show aired. Good lord.

IMO New York Magazine would not only intentionally orchestrate its response for publicity, but do it in the way most likely to be picked up while not biting the hand that feeds it pics from the episodes.

You don't think that THEY knew about this at least since your poster allegedly spilled the beans in August?

If they DID pick up on it from Thursday's episode, from the single comment "Reasons to Love New York - Because Madonna is Back" in that episode, then their executives and lawyers had a mere fourteen and a half hours to call everybody in sight, have meetings, speak to Lifetime, arrive at a way to handle it, draft their little comment, and get it into the blog article published at 1:25 the next afternoon.

It just doesn't seem likely. Plus, the little "we're not bitter" comment was too artfully drafted to be a quickie drop-in.

So, yeah, I do think they knew ahead of time, worked out how they were going to handle it, then just sat on it until now.


Appropriating images that are not in the public domain...Who does she think she is, Shepard Fairey?


What copyright issue? As Irina herself would tell you, she invented love, she invented reason, she invented New York. Anything having to do with reasons to love New York is therefore stolen from her, just the same as Althea did with Sweatergate. New York Magazine probably owes her money.


actually NY courier I do know a great deal about intellectual property. I just don't think that putting a list of reasons on a tee shirt for liking New York that someone else thought of as deserving of such outrage. it's not a novel. I could come up with a list of loving NY in about five minutes. anybody could. who cares. I would be more concerned about the handwrighting then anything else since the whole impact of this piece is visual. I actually am a published songwrighter - and if someone used my lyrics in a song - I would be pissed, but on a tee shirt, I would be flattered. even if they did make money off of it, because I realize that they could use lyrics from any song - the fact that they used mine really doesn't matter because it's a tee shirt.


"a" didn't say it, "al" did . The goddamn post is still there and I'm not telling you were it is.


I wish NY Magazine would've pulled a Kanye on Irina's runway show. Now THAT would've been fun to watch.


There are only 3 tee-shirts with the screen prints on them, when the are auctioned off the money goes to Project Runway. The designers do not make any money off the actual collections.


MouseAnony said...

TLo - A red herring. I did not claim that Lifetime "dictated" your content in any forum. I spoke only of the timing of disclosures. And as for "greenlighting," semantics. Perhaps something on the order of "pre-agreement" would be more apt. And perhaps Lifetime isn't the proper entity. But you've known stuff, seen episode previews, and had advance info made available to you and/or discussed with you on the express or implied promise that you'll stay mum about it until the relevant episode has aired.

And I'd bet that if I were to scour your blog for the August comment that "a" said disclosed the copying from New York Magazine, I'd find that it had been quietly removed.


What kind of person are you that you would sling these kinds of accusations around without any evidence whatsoever? You can "bet" all you want, but the original comment is still there.

Once again, there is no "agreement" between Lifetime and ourselves, either implied or explicit. We saw exactly one preview: the screener for episode 1 of this season, which cut off before we could see the dresses or the judging. We posted everything we knew about the screener THE DAY WE RECEIVED AND WATCHED IT. We never receive any information from Lifetime ahead of time that isn't explicitly to be used on the blog, i.e., pictures and previews. We have never been asked by Lifetime to withhold information from our readers. We get tidbits and rumors all the time from eagle-eyed readers or people in the know, but NEVER from Lifetime (or Bravo before them). We knew about this particular issue before "al" even posted about it, again, because someone figured it out and sent us an email about it not long after the Bryant Park show. The only reason we haven't mentioned it before now is because the episode hadn't aired yet and we had no idea what the context was. And also because many of our readers expressed that they didn't want to look at the finale collections before the finale. Since the piece was shown and quoted in this episode, and since other sites were picking up on the story, now was the time to devote a post to it.

We honestly are a little disgusted right now. It's one thing to sling an unwarranted accusation without any evidence. That's bad enough. But to dig in your heels and insist on it when the people you've accused inform you that you're wrong? That's insane.

One thing's for sure. It's not something you'll be doing again. Not on this site. Because future comments by you will be deleted as soon as you attempt to post them. Go start a blog so you can post your paranoid ravings to your heart's content.


It all boils down to hypocrisy: Irina is all over Althea for copying a BASIC shape yet she plucked the reasons SHE loves NY verbatim out of a magazine. It's just so laughable except that she might be the winner. Irina is a better designer than Althea so it's between her and Carol Hannah. I'm interested to see how Irina's all-black collection looks on TV. Right now, in the screencaps, it looks cohesive but we haven't seen the clothes move yet. And it's easy to look cohesive when you have a collection which shows very little detail due to the color.


OMG! this has 100000000 comments.
Anyway my reason for commenting
is than even before you guys mentioned it was quoted my alarm went off. with the use of font. couldn't she use her handwriting? i guess she "also" got the rights for usage of that font! by the way its Handwriting- Dakota


"Tlo said: One thing's for sure. It's not something you'll be doing again. Not on this site. Because future comments by you will be deleted as soon as you attempt to post them. Go start a blog so you can post your paranoid ravings to your heart's content."




BRAVO!

--GothamTomato


I've been reading all the comments, including the one about the font used (who'da thought that?!) and wondering...

if, during judging, did Nina or MichaelK. catch this? Longtime NYC residents, professionals and certainly in the know about original content.

One thing today hath wrought - I'm looking forward to this week's episode whereas all I wondered about before is poor Carol Hannah's health.


As a loyal fan of T. and Lo, I am offended that someone would accuse them of being in Lifetime's pockets and checking their material for "greenlighting" before posting it. It's obvious TLo are independent. Just the other day they repeatedly wrote, "Fuck you" to the producers in the Gordana aufing post. They are never afraid to offend.


"Sewing Siren said: The goddamn post is still there and I'm not telling you were it is."




LOL. Sewing Siren: Pushed to profanity (by insanity)!! But here's the difference between you & me: I would have added, 'but I will tell you where to shove it.'

But that's just the kinda gal I am.

--GothamTomato


TLo said

"We knew about this particular issue before "al" even posted about it, again, because someone figured it out and sent us an email about it not long after the Bryant Park show."

I'd believe it, it took googling up just one phrase from one of the t-shirts and it led me right to the article.

As for the newspaper challenge this season, the newspaper was involved and they were given specific issues of it.

I was definitely on the Irina boat, but after this whole mess, I am seriously not caring who wins this season. Bring on lucky number 7.


It's possible she got permission from the original author and the publishers to use those words on a t-shirt. If she did, then it should be totally okay.

Except that it probably violates some PR rule about originality. But they've pretty much thrown originality out the window this season by selecting cloned 25-year-old contestants, no?


Drunken Housewife said...

As a loyal fan of T. and Lo, I am offended that someone would accuse them of being in Lifetime's pockets and checking their material for "greenlighting" before posting it. It's obvious TLo are independent. Just the other day they repeatedly wrote, "Fuck you" to the producers in the Gordana aufing post. They are never afraid to offend.



I agree, how can you come here every day, be entertained by their posts, enjoy our community here, but have no problem turning around and accuse them over and over again just like that?

And before people come after me, I mean ACCUSE without any evidence over and over again, as opposed to QUESTION things.


Aspynramona said...

And before people come after me, I mean ACCUSE without any evidence over and over again, as opposed to QUESTION things.


That's an important distinction and we thank you for pointing it out. We don't mind when people question us regarding our relationship with Lifetime. It's a natural question to ask. What we mind are baseless accusations that continue to get made AFTER we refute them.

For the record, the only people at Lifetime with whom we have any regular contact are their digital media people; the ones who operate their site, and their marketing people; the ones that provide previews, pictures, and access to the designers for interviews. We have absolutely no contact with anyone who has anything to do with the production of the show.


Why didn't Tim point out that she'd misspelled "Coney"?


So much drama for a Saturday! I'm going to make a t-shirt with Mouse Anony's conspiracy theory on it to wear for the finale.


An anonymous poster said: "I really wouldn't care if someone used some of my work to put on a tee shirt - and I actually write. I would be flattered and buy them a drink if I saw them at a bar. it's art - it's supposed to be recycled. people think way too much of themselves."

But a published article is not "art -supposed to be recycled." It's a person's work, which is supposed to be their livelihood. It is how they make a living, putting words together in a certain order. It is illegal to take someone else's words and use them, without their permission, for profit (the fact that there are such laws should point out to you that your opinion about "art -- meant to be recycled' is a minority view). This isn't a little, letter-of-the-law violation, either: It is unethical to appropriate someone else's work and pass it off as your own. It's sleazy. And it's particularly bad in a contest which is about CREATIVITY and ORIGINALITY.


I think I was misunderstood by a few people. I don't support what Irina did (or Irina in general, neither her personality nor her tacky "talent").

Granted, there is a ton of editing involved in TV, and a lot of behind-the-scenes stuff we don't know about, but from what I gather: whether she got permission would only be an argument if she had actually said that it was someone's work. SHE DIDN'T. She claimed it as her own, which is even worse. She told Tim "I put down my thoughts." Ridiculous! It starts at 27:00 (the third segment): http://www.mylifetime.com/on-tv/shows/project-runway/project-runway-episodes/project-runway-season-6-episode-13/videos

So really, it's two crimes: 1. copyright infringement, because, as far as we know, she didn't acquire the proper permission, and 2. plagiarism, because she's claiming the work as her own.


DrunkenHousewife wrote:
"But a published article is not "art -supposed to be recycled." It's a person's work, which is supposed to be their livelihood. It is how they make a living, putting words together in a certain order.[...] It is unethical to appropriate someone else's work and pass it off as your own."

Thank you so much for saying this! I write for a living and I completely agree.

I don't think people should minimize this. If Irina did not get permission from the original writer and the magazine, I hope the producers of the show took steps to deal with the issue. (Not holding my breath!)


TLo said:

"We have absolutely no contact with anyone who has anything to do with the production of the show."

We can tell that, guys, just from the trainwreck that was Season 6. You'd have told them to fix this shitastic season STAT!


Fonts don't get the same kind of protections as do pix and writing. So her using a particular font isn't an issue.

No, I'm not a lawyer, but for some reason this once came up during a lunch with an intellectual-property lawyer.

Actually, I think this is a headache for B/M. They gotta get permission to show trademarks all the time--thus, the blurring of logos all over the place. So, now they have this infringement problem. NYMag isn't going to go after Irina--she doesn't have the money to make it worth while. But Lifetime? Repeated viewings? Ooh boy.

Betcha there's some interesting editing going on right now to make sure those shirts can't be read.


To a - just because rappers borrow from other works doesn't make it any less of a copyright violation.
I acknowledged that, I was using the rapper's sampling to clarify and give an example of "something not totally organic"


This comments section is more entertaining than the entire season.


Y'know, Irina, when you point fingers, three point back at you!

I can understand WHY she copied the article. She was stressed out and time was running out. But we don't know two things:
1. Did she contact the author of the article? Perhaps she did have permission?
2. Does she give credit somewhere on the t-shirt?

If she didn't do these two things, then she should be held accountable. Sometimes it's hard to remember copyright laws when everything is so available now days.


Katie said...

DrunkenHousewife wrote:
"But a published article is not "art -supposed to be recycled." It's a person's work, which is supposed to be their livelihood. It is how they make a living, putting words together in a certain order.[...] It is unethical to appropriate someone else's work and pass it off as your own."

Thank you so much for saying this! I write for a living and I completely agree.

I don't think people should minimize this. If Irina did not get permission from the original writer and the magazine, I hope the producers of the show took steps to deal with the issue. (Not holding my breath!)



Agreed. I''m a writer and I find the "who cares?" attitude mind-blogging.


If Irina tried to pass off the ideas on the T-Shirt as her own that is both legally and ethically wrong. On the one hand, that is what it looked like she did in her conversation with Tim, yet on the other hand as someone pointed out, it is unclear from the edit (it was done almost as a voiceover). However if she did get the proper permission and did not try to take credit for the ideas, I don't consider that a breach of creative ethics anymore than Andy Warhol's Campbell's Soup can.


Anonymous said...

actually NY courier I do know a great deal about intellectual property. I just don't think that putting a list of reasons on a tee shirt for liking New York that someone else thought of as deserving of such outrage. it's not a novel. [stuff cut] I actually am a published songwrighter - and if someone used my lyrics in a song - I would be pissed, but on a tee shirt, I would be flattered.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Well, if your primary income comes from your writing (as is likely for a newspaper columnist), and it would not bother you that someone made money from it without you getting an appropriate compensation, nor any control over what context in which your words were used, you are an extraordinarily, um, relaxed individual. And an asset to family holiday gatherings, no doubt!


"drunken housewife said: But a published article is not "art -supposed to be recycled." It's a person's work, which is supposed to be their livelihood. It is how they make a living, putting words together in a certain order. It is illegal to take someone else's words and use them, without their permission,"




Art is also 'work', and subject to the same copyright potections as the written word. Artists also make a living from their work: art.

--GothamTomato


Sadly (because I would be entertained to see comeuppance delivered to Ms. I-invented-oversized-knitwear), I am now convinced that appropriate permissions to use the quotes were acquired, whether before (probably) or after the t-shirts arrived for Fashion Week. It fits the pattern of "tiny events made large" in this season. Really, if there were going to be ANOTHER copyright/rights-to-use drama next week, I would expect major foreshadowing in the trailers for next week.


CONNEY Island! What an idiot. Karma's a bitch Irina and so are you.

and off topic but can this be true?
"a said":
LAT: The current season is in L.A. The next one, which was already shot, is in New York, but the season after that, you'll be back in L.A. Do you like the idea?

TG: I love the plan. We needed a booster shot, and L.A. provided it -- more than that, it gave us a whole new threshold.
---
Oh say it isn't so! I'm already dreading that. Keep the show in NY..
It's a NY show, plain and simple I think that's been proven.


EGADS!
Are we talking about an actual fashion crime?
Let's hope PR doesn't ignore the ONLY genuinely interesting thing to happen this season.


From 'The Cut' Article - "One note: When Irina was forced to change her Brooklyn T-shirt design, she copied yet another famous device, our "Reasons to Love New York" issue. She even calls it “Reasons to Love.” We don’t mind, really, but for someone who’s so bent on proving that Althea is copying her, Irina’s quite liberal with her own “inspiration.” But we’re not bitter — how could we be, when Tim is around to utter lines like “We’re walking to Mood, using our feet — this is New York!” We’ll learn the outcome and the winner next week. Can’t wait!"

They don't seem to care too much, they're more annoyed with her using the "Reasons To Love" IDEA. I think its possible that those were all anonymously submitted quotes so they can't really claim that they're THEIRS, you know? That said, it's pretty bizarre that she would claim she came up with them on her own... I can think of 50 reasons I love New York off the top of my head right now, could she not come up with a few lines herself??


Well, I am a lawyer, albeit not an intellectual property attorney, and thankfully, not one for Lifetime.

I find it more than conceivable that there was no vetting from the legal powers that be regarding whether Irina's use of the NY Mag's quotes was lawful. I doubt very much whether Lifetime's legal staff reads comments on a blog, although its marketing folks might. In order for the legal folks to consider and give an opinion on Irina's appropriation of the NY Mag's article, whoever was reading the comments would have to recognize its possible import and bring it to the attention of legal.

This could be the first that they are hearing about it.


Wow, I missed all the fun. I'm going to create a T-shirt that says "Reasons to Love Irina"


She'll find some way to blame Althea. "Althea copied the text and put it into my head telepathically. Like when she copied my sweater without ever seeing it."


hmmm, who's the 'copier'?


Mariana (The Unoriginal)

Ellen said...
The issue at hand is more than monetary. It is unethical and fraudulent to use someone else's work and pass it off as your own. She should be disqualified. End of discussion.



Exactly, it is unethical.

a) Why not say that she had read the article in the magazine?
b) Why not say anything to Tim when they were discussing the quotes?
c) Why not get inspired by the article and create your own reasons to love NY?


Wow, I missed all the fun. I'm going to create a T-shirt that says "Reasons to Love Irina"

And by "create," you mean "copy and paste the comments on this entry," right? ;)


"The plagiary is another issue entirely: who doesn't learn by seventh grade that you just don't do that?"

"IMO, it is not possible to be a reasonably informed citizen of this country and not even be dimly aware that there might be something wrong with copying another's work."

It makes me so happy to see this and similar comments here. I'm a line editor, and plagiarism is absolutely rampant in our publications. The writers see absolutely nothing wrong with cutting and pasting multiple paragraphs at a time. Some of them understand that they need to give an attribution, but NONE of them understand that they need to use quote marks! It just about breaks my heart.


firstly, this has got to be the most amusing pr community in blogsphere.

irina’s collection is my fave of the three... shows vision, a distinctive voice and i dig the idea of tshirt as postcard. her use of the images is like sampling in music or using song or referencing other works in filmmaking, storytelling. it’s all a bit daft that copyright had to become an issue. she’s a 26 yr old indie designer... she should’ve known better, but she’s a 26 yr old indie designer. heck even tim gunn didn’t flag it at first.

who knows how many emails with big legal, latin words were swapped between New York magazine and Lifetime...point remains-- irina’s collection kicks ass. while the other two seemed like 13 challenges strung together, irina’s collection had a beginning, middle and end. it made a statement and it looked fabulous doing it.


I have been avidly following TLo since the beginning and am truly disgusted that someone would question their motives. Jesus, this is a blog about Fashion, not McCarthyism.


The issue at hand is more than monetary. It is unethical and fraudulent to use someone else's work and pass it off as your own. She should be disqualified. End of discussion.
(republished, I accidently deleted the original post)


Plagiarism! How can anyone justify that? She copied someone else's written work, word for word and took the credit. Plain and simple.


Here's my take: Apparently NY magazine asked a bunch of people why they loved NY and they picked some of the answers for the article. Maybe Irina felt that she was voicing these people's statements through her work and that's why she used the quotes from the article. Just a thought.


SUS
said:
>This comments section is more entertaining than the entire season.

Totally agree Sus!!! who would have thought that this post was going to end up with an idiotic accusation to TLO and the banning of a regular poster from the site.... talk about drama!!! :-)

I can't believe Irina was capable of doing something so stupid.... what a lack of imagination!!! and those hats look like Jillian's.... does she have any original idea in that head of hers???


You people are overreacting. Althea said she was inspired by some sci-fi movies, it's not like she handed to Tim a list of all the movies she saw.


"formerlyAnon said...y

...you are an extraordinarily, um, relaxed individual. And an asset to family holiday gatherings, no doubt!"



ROFL.


Unless NY magazine raise a big stink about it, I bet it will never be mentioned.


My mouth just dropped, all I could think was Tim asking her about Madonna being back or something and she said nothing.


Hahahahahahahaha, I love her!

"No problem, Tim, I'll just copy somebody else."


I don't understand the producers of the show and their lawyers; it was not okay to copy the images but it was okay to use another artist’s renderings for her shirts? I'm confused; unless they don't know anything about it.


WOW! I thought she had written her own reasons for loving New York on her t-shirt.


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