The Tom & Lorenzo Archives: 2006 -2011
Our current site is here: www.tomandlorenzo.com

Lost: The Incident

Labels: ,
Well, last night's 2-part season finale was a tense, exciting, emotional roller coaster ride that delved deep into the Lost mythology, answered a lot of questions while opening up new ones, and gave almost all the major players some great character moments. We enjoyed the hell out of it.

Until it was over and we really started thinking about it.

If you consider all of Lost to be one long story arc (and really, you should), and if you break that arc down to Acts 1, 2, and 3, then upon some reflection, we can't help but declare that last night's episodes demonstrated some poor writing, no matter how enjoyable it was. Act 1 would have been seasons 1 and 2, starting off with the crash of 815 and all the work done in the first 2 seasons to set up the backstories of all the characters, provide some interpersonal conflict and set up adversarial relationships between the protagonists and the other people who have interest in the island, both the Others and the DHARMA initiative. Act 2 further heightens the drama as the central conflict becomes more pronounced and we learn that there are multiple forces (including Widmore and Eloise) struggling to achieve some sort of goal involving the island and ending with the Oceanic 6 back on the mainland, coming to the slow realization that leaving the island was a mistake. Season 5 started the 3rd and final act, with the 06 returning to the island to complete whatever it is they were supposed to do in the first place and the central conflict becoming even more pronounced as we learn, bit by bit, who all the other players are (or were) and what their connections are to each other (DHARMA, Widmore, Hawking and to a lesser extent, Rousseau). Fine, that's all good.

But when you consider that last night's finale represented the halfway point of the final act and it was only then that we were introduced to a brand new character who has never even been hinted at (Jacob's opposite number, who others are already referring to as Esau) and who appears to have been at the center of everything that's happened so far, we can't help but consider it poor form on the part of the writers. It's a cheat; a classic deus ex machina and to be frank, it pissed us off a little bit.

We have no choice but to put that aside, though. There's way too much to talk about and ponder and we're just going to have to accept that the writers pulled a fast one on us (and not in a good way). The appearance of Jacob didn't jibe with anything we'd been thinking about him, but when you really think about it, we haven't really EVER been told anything about the guy. All we really had to go on was Locke's spooky encounter in the cabin and we're guessing that wasn't Jacob at all; it was Esau. The entire story has been about the conflict between these two characters even if we didn't know it. It seems that Esau had been manipulating Locke practically from the moment he arrived on the island, all to make him believe that he had a greater destiny.

Well, sad to say, but Locke's only destiny was to die so that Esau could somehow take his place and be in position to murder Jacob. If we had to guess, we'd say that the smoke monster and the various apparitions around the island (most notably, Christian Shephard, but also Claire and Yemi, Eko's brother) were all manifestations of Esau. Credit where it's due, the reveal that Locke's body was in that cargo box was a huge shock and it did help to explain why Locke has been acting so strangely the last few times we've seen him. It also explained the scene last episode where "Locke" sent Richard to tell Locke that he had to leave the island and die. It wasn't about Locke fulfilling his destiny; it was about Esau making sure Locke died.

Alright, enough of that Jacob/Esau stuff. Let's talk about something else. Like ROSE AND BERNARD, Y'all! And even Vincent! It was wonderful to see them again and they were really sweet, even if it takes suspension of disbelief to the breaking point to believe that they managed to stay in the jungle for three years without being detected by either the hostiles or DHARMA. We suspect this will be the last time we see them and we STRONGLY suspect that means that they are the "Adam and Eve" skeletons found in the cave way back in season 1.

We enjoyed the various flashbacks to the main characters' lives. We have to give a shoutout to the casting people because that little girl who played young Kate looked EXACTLY like a ten-year-old Evangeline Lilly. So much so, that we wonder if they're related. How telling that Jack's oft-repeated "count to 5" story didn't happen exactly the way he told it. The little shit neglected to mention that it was his father who suggested he do so. And speaking of the little shit...

Jack, you're willing to blow up an entire island, risking the deaths of hundreds of people all because Kate dumped you? What kind of asshole are you? And Juliet! You decided to go along with it because Sawyer snuck a glance at Kate? WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE? Let us help you out here: KATE IS NOT WORTH IT. What is it about that girl that causes normally sane people to kill themselves over her?

Speaking of which, wow, that goodbye scene with Juliet and Sawyer was excruciating. We kind of figured going into the finale that Juliet wasn't going to make it out alive, but how sad for her that she never got to see her sister again. Granted, she might somehow survive all this (because she inexplicably survived what looked like the equivalent of a ten story fall) but somehow we doubt it. At least she went out well. She had a death scene that rivaled Charlie's for most heart-wrenching and heroic of the series.

Now, what the hell does that final flash of light mean? It couldn't have been any more ambiguous. The central question around the whole finale was whether Jack's plan was going to work. Would the detonating bomb correct the timeline or not? Well, before we can even answer that one, we have to find out if the bomb even detonated. That flash could have been an explosion or it could have been a time flash triggered by all the electromagnetism. So, either the bomb detonated and the timeline corrected itself; the bomb detonated and the timeline didn't correct itself (although that would mean the deaths of all the major characters and that doesn't seem likely) or the bomb didn't detonate and a time flash jumped all the survivors out of 1977 and most likely back to the present day. We're worn out. Discuss amongst yourselves. Yes, we know we missed a lot (like Ilana and her backup dancers) but our fingers are tired. You guys do it.


[Photos: ABC.com]

73 comments:

I'm down with the idea that Jacob's dying words "They're coming..." refers not to Ilana, Richard, etc but to the rest of those who were stuck in the 70s, being flashed back to the present day.

And with Miles' theory that detonating the bomb causes, not prevents, the incident. Faraday knew this all along and tricked Jack into thinking he could "fix" things so that the course of time would continue as it always had.


While "Esau" has been surrepticiously manipulating Locke and everyone else,so has Jacob. It appears that Jacob has been amassing his own army against Esau. So this entire time, they have both been buiding an army against each other, which would make sense as being the war Widmore mentions. But how would he know? Also why would "Esau" (forget it-- i'm calling him Smokey) kill Eko? Why didn't Jacob tell Ben that that was not Locke. I would say one of the BIGGEST questions is: If Jacob is this benevolent "creature"(which they are trying to paint him to look) then what is so important that he would lure people to the island, knowing most will die? And why does Smokey hate him so much, it has to be more than just that? And how the hell did Smokey turn into Smokey in the first place? Why didn't Jacob ever warn anyone? Okay...I'm pooped for now. :)


TLo said:
"WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?"

My thoughts exactly. I was actually yelling these exact words at my TV last night. I have to say, I am SO disappointed in these characters for being so self-centered and in the writers of the show as well, for giving us this wishy-washy love quadrangle crap as the motivation behind the characters' decisions in such crucial situations. Boo!
I can't even comment on the rest. I think I may be over this show once and for all.


Though I'm always whining about how I can't get into this show, it does play in my household each week, and I do catch bits of it.

I wish I was sure I had her exact words, but I busted out laughing last night when Rose summed up my entire feeling for the whole rigamarole when she remarked, "It's always something with you people."

That laugh was worth it.


I spent most of the episode horrified by the Grey's Anatomy style, overdone, relationship bullshit. Juliet, a character whom I had grown to like, made no sense in every LET'S TURN THIS AROUND! speech she made, and by the time she got sucked into the hole, I no longer cared if she lived or not (although I really cared for poor Sawyer). I don't like Jack, but the realization that he's doing this just because Kate makes his penis titter, and Juliet pulling 360s every five minutes because she's insecure over Kate were maddening, unbelievable, and lame.


Loved the episode! Love reading y'all's posts about it as well. The scene with Juliet and Sawyer was amazing, so gutwrenching.
What lies in the shadow of the statue?
"Ille qui nos omnis servabit."
means "He who will save us all"

Hmmmmm.....

And I agree...Kate is so not worth it!


The interesting thing is, all of this jibes with Ben's end of season 2 assertion that they (The Others) are "the good guys." If Ben has been handed his directions from Jacob -- which he has, it seems, though Jacob never met with him face to face -- then he has, indeed, been working for the Good Guy, the man in White. Jacob is the benevolent presence on the Island as far as we know, bringing people there, assimilating them to Island life, allowing each time loop to change just a little bit to achieve a better end -- to climb all the way up the ladder, as such. And so Ben, really, hasn't been lying all along. He does work for the good guys, and what he's been doing has been to protect the Island from Esau.


Deus ex machina is right. That's exactly what I was thinking. Overall, I am disappointed in this episode, and not just because Juliet died. Although if she died, shouldn't everyone die with her? And if everyone else on the island didn't die, why should she? But eonline is reporting that she is definitely dead and that Elizabeth Mitchell is going to be starring in another ABC series next season.

What I don't understand is if they really changed the past in such a way as to change the future, then they will never crash on the island and never end up back in the 70's to blow up the bomb. It's a paradox. I am getting behind the theory that they somehow caused the crash, not prevented it. But the whole "Jacob is behind everything" reveal was disappointing.


I also loved Roses "It's always something with you people" comment - perfect!

And I'll fully admit that while I've been watching since season 1, I'm pretty confused right now and am choosing to just go with it rather than sort it all out.

I will say though that the ep. relied on too many gun battles - cheap and boring device.

One thing though - how did Rose and Bernard get to 1977?


I thought last nights episode was unbelievable!! I can't stop thinking about it, and that doesn't often happen.
I suppose you might get frustrated with the story arc, and the quasi introduction of new characters... but I disagree that it was frustrating. After all, both have part of the island all along, we just didn't know it. I love calling "Man #2" Esau is brilliant.
But now, I want to give praise where praise is due, YOU GUYS have done a terrific job of blogging about this wonderful show. What I particularly like is that you can step away and see the whole thing. Sometimes I get so caught up in trying to figure out what the book meant, or who the guy drinking coffee in the background is, that I lose track of the big picture. That's where you two come in!! Kudos, and many thanks for being the English Teacher to all us 7th graders!!


What lies in the shadow of the statue? It looked like Chad from those annoying Alltell ads.

I really liked the Jacob/Esau bit with the reveal that Locke is an Esau puppet (makes sense now how he was working so hard behind the scenes to work those time jump/sending message tricks this season). Makes me wonder if the whole Sawyer/Juliet/Kate/Jack clusterf*ck is really four more puppets because their stupid motivations make no sense at all.

I still don't understand what Jacob gains from making brief "real world" contact with everyone from the Oceanic flight (except for the hint to Hurley about the Ajira flight). I wonder about the significance of the guitar case.

Interesting to see Richard involved in two "simultaneous" adventures (separated by 30 years): the H bomb recon and the hunt for Jacob.


S: I think Eloise's words to Desmond all the way back in Seasaon3: the universe has a way of course correcting. I think it doesn't matter what they do, and I think part of where the final season is headed (and, hey, I can always be wrong, and probably am) is in teaching the castaways, especially Jack, that you cannot make your problems just go away. That your whatever happened, happened and that adaptation and growth is the real way to affect change. What Jacob said about everything leading up to the end, to destruction, is "just progress" is more meaningful than I think it immediately came off. Esau vents about the arrival of the people on the boat as a blight, as something that would only bring death and destruction, to which Jacob replies that it's a matter of progress.

Progress is painful and difficult and sometimes harms more than it heals, at first. But eventually you change something small -- your perspective. And with that comes growth, improvement, and change.

Jack's been doing what Jack was supposed to all along. He didn't help Ben, so Ben went to The Others.. as he always had. Who's to say that blowing up the Swan isn't what always happened?


Another thing... this morning my husband said... "you know Ben pointed out that Jacob was in all white and "Esau" was in black." I looked at him, and said "hey wait a minute, when was Ben together with those two"... my husband looked at me and said "your SON Ben pointed that out..." Oh yeah, I have a son named Ben, so you see how involved I was that I thought of Ben Linus before my very own son,
sheeesh, what a show!!


Yes I was amazingly pissed at these people absorbed in their own drama not to see the big picture.

And Kate is so not worth it. She might have been worth it during Season 1 but after that she became incredibly annoying and wimpy to me. Hell Sun and Rose are women much more worth fighting over

Yes lots of people wont die but what kind of lives will they lead. Sawyer, Kate, Rose, Sun/Jin, Hurley, Shannon, Charlie and Claire, Miles, even Locke had better lives for coming to the island. Sawyer and Kate's life would be abject misery if they landed in LA without incident. Sun and Jin's marriage would be totally down the crapper and they would have no child.

And what would happen to Desmond and Juliet. The 2 of them may very well still end up on the island not able to get off.

Regardless that scene with Sawyer desperately trying to save Juliet was gutwrenching. If I were him my first instinct is to tear Jack a new one

Frank


Okay, if I was 10 years old and getting caught stealing my popular TV show lunchbox ,and some smiley man in his 30's offers to pay for it so I don't get in trouble, my scary freak-dar would be going off big time.


Did Jacob have to give each one of them something during his prior contact with them. Kate, the money for the stolen lunchbox; Sawyer, the pen; Jack, the candy bar and Hurley, the guitar case.I don't remember if he gave anything to Sun and Jin - maybe a wedding gift? I don't think he gave anything to Locke - but then Locke didn't really come back as himself.

I'm going to have to watch this again.


Jacob gave Nadia a car bumper. I'm not sure what he gave Ilana... a project?


I have to say, I am not feeling the frustration with the introduction of Esau. I think it's just part of stringing everything together, and not in an after thought sort of way either. It was an "Ah Ha!" moment for me. I felt as though he was the missing piece to the puzzle that could explain many of the island's mysteries (black smoke, visualizations of dead people, etc).

Speaking of dead people... So far all of the strange appearances (possibly cause by Esau) have been dead (Jack's dad, Eko's Brother, Ben's daughter) with the exception of CLAIRE! Does this mean Claire is indeed dead?

Also when Esau-Locke was at the abandon Dharmaville Jack's Dad was there as well... I wonder if Esau could have been in both bodies at once? or possibly that is when he made the switch (but then how was Locke alive?)

Now on to the time travel drama.. If the explosion/flash does not stop the plane from crashing wont everyone be stuck in an endless loop? The survivors will do the same thing they've already done and it will continue.

Maybe the same thing has happened so many times, in different ways but it always ends the same. With the crash and moving the island and going back to repeat it all. Possibly Eloise has some knowledge of this and that's why she is trying to manipulate things, to make them different.

Possibly that is what Esau is doing.. trying to break the cycle, by killing Jacob, who may not be as good as we think.


I couldn't disagree more with you about it being poor writing to step away from the standard 3-act story. First of all, it's bad writing to step out of the box and do something different? I don't want to live in that world. But, secondly, I don't think they introduced a new character. I think we've been seeing him for a long time (Christian, probably every dead person) so just because we didn't know who it was, that makes it poor writing? Sorry, but they have like 20 more hours to explain it, I think they can introduce "new" characters whenever they want.

As far as the Jack/Kate/Sawyer/Juliet thing, yeah, that was retarded.


Loved meeting Jacob and his foe and realizing the war is much deeper than we thought. A lot more going on. Explains why John's been a jerk lately. Can't wait to see what happens next. Still want more on Richard.

Jack is still a douche. Thanks to Sawyer for smashing that face in. And Kate? Totally agree that she's not worth it! Sheesh! And you'd think Juliet would recognize that Sawyer was fighting so hard against Jack changing time because he liked his life with her.

Rose did sum up the whole thing quite nicely. The machinations of all these people have resulted in a lot of trouble and she is tired of it. Me too!

And can I say what would Jack do without Sayid? Couldn't take apart a bomb by himself, that's for sure. And then Sayid is bleeding to death and Jack has to go have a talk with Sawyer? Hello, let's show a little love to poor Sayid!


Maybe Jacob didn't have to give them something, just touch them.

Is it an endless loop - were the Oceanic 6 also on the boat coming to the island at the beginning.

So happy to see Rose and Bernard - I thought of TLo as soon as they appeared.

I think Sawyer is totally over Kate, Juliet just didn't realize this. Otherwise why would he go along with Juliet everytime she changed her mind. But, alas, I think Juliet is no more.


winninghamster

Oooooo! Can't believe no-one has mentioned this yet! Other websites are referring to the statue as Anubis, but the statue clearly has a crocodile head, which would make it Set, right? The god of witchcraft and evil and death, who chopped up his brother, Osiris, into itty-bitty pieces, and is the closest thing Egyptian mythology has to the devil? How freakin' awesome is that? Also, sorry to go to the ooky place - but you know how Eloise and Charles have both been referred to as the leader now, and how their love is "complicated," and all these Egyptian references - you know who the pharaohs, Egypt's "leaders," always had to marry, dontcha?

On an unrelated note- goddammit Sawyer and Juliet! Why'd you have to let Jack and Kate's lameness rub off on you? Couldn't just one of them say 'we should do this so that all those people who are DEAD, because of US and our crappy leadership will live,' instead of 'boo hoo, my boyfriend/girlfriend doesn't like me, let's destroy the fabric of reality.'


That Girl said...
Also when Esau-Locke was at the abandon Dharmaville Jack's Dad was there as well... I wonder if Esau could have been in both bodies at once? or possibly that is when he made the switch (but then how was Locke alive?)
But Jack's Dad didn't meet "Locke" and Ben in 2007 Dharmaville, it was Sun waiting in Alex's old room (as instructed by Christian), right?


winninghamster

Also, as if Jacob could get any more biblical, maybe he touches them to bless them (he explicitly gave Jin and Sun his blessing) and/or to mark them (like the mark of Cain).


Does it mean anything that the fish that Jacob caught in the first scene was a red herring? :)


I had a feeling we'd lose Juliet this episode. I could barely watch that scene, it was so awful to watch. And an especially horrible way to die.

After reading your thoughts, I was wondering if the flash of light at the end was another time travel rather than a bomb explosion. this is when they go back to the present. Something about detonating the H bomb made the O6 travel one last time?

I really wish the writers hadn't killed off Juliet, but I think they wanted something dramatic to end season 5. At any rate, they did the character great justice.

that final scene was unbelievable and I will miss Juliet next season.

I'm sort of wondering what next season will be like. I really don't want to watch a war for 18 episodes.

I also have this horrible feeling that the characters end up stuck in a time loop and the very first scene of lost with Jack on the ground is how the series will end.

Lost writers, do not do that! Make the ending sad, depressing, fatalistic, whatever. I don't care if everyone dies and Jack and Kate never end up together. Just make it so all this crap doesn't happen again. I want closure.

this episode busted up my theory about the statue and the history of the island. Clearly Jacob wanted the O6 to come back to the island. He somehow knows what their ultimate purpose is. I guess we'll find out next season.


anonymous said "I don't remember if he gave anything to Sun and Jin - maybe a wedding gift?"

I was thinking he gave them advice- but then I guess he gave everyone a little of that.


Each lostie that Jacob met was touched by him. I guess he must have marked them in someway.
(as mentioned on other websites, a kind of fail safe loop hole of his own)
I'm assuming they are who he was referring to when he said "they are coming" before the Evil guy in black kicked him into the fire.

There was so much including the fact that Juliet was wearing red. Everyone knows what being the "red shirt" means.

Another theory I read is that Oceanic 815 was not supposed to crash and the survivors were orginally slated by Jacob to come to the island on the Ajira flight but Desmond messed that all up when he pushed the button to late and caused the incident that crashed Oceanic 815.

I loved the whole idea that the story is nothing but an eternal struggle between 2 immortal beings who are fighting about man and his inability to learn and change. Manipulation and a bit of a push in this or that direction until we get it right or Evil Dude in Black is proved right.
Very Neil Gaiman-ish (along with the whole personification of evil is locked in a prison within a magical circle)....very Battlestar Galactica God/Gog-ish.

and then there is Flanney O'Connor...
so much to take in.

Thank you gentlemen for an enjoyable season, can't wait for the first Mad Men write-up!


Winninghamster.

Very interesting about Set. There was an iconography of Anubis and the smoke monster right?

So is Jacob anubis and esau/smokey set?

Also, the writers have said that if we understood the title of the first episode, we'd understand Lost.

the title of the first episode is The Pilot. Obviously this has another meaning. However, the only pilot we saw on the first episode was the captain of the plane. But who was the first killed by smokey on the island? It was the pilot.

Smokey must have done that for a reason. We don't know why the pilot was killed so quickly, but if I had to guess it was to prevent him from revealing information to the passengers.

Lepidas (sp?) was supposed to be on that flight. I'm wondering if smoke monster thought it was lepidas, or it knew it was a different pilot. Who was this replacement? Was he sent by Widmore or Eloise?

i'm just throwing out random ideas. but I've been wondering what the writers have been talking about since they mentioned how important the title episode is.


I was kind of annoyed that Locke ended up being Smokey/Esau/whoever. I agreed with Locke's sentiment in recent episodes that it was ridiculous of Ben and the others to take orders from Jacob without ever seeing him or questioning him. I liked that mysterious Jacob was finally going to be held accountable. And when it seemed to end "don't question" being the moral, I was disappointed.

Also, I wonder if Jacob wanted to die. You don't say "What about you?" to someone who's deciding whether or not to kill you unless you have a death wish.


Ok. Thank you for clarifying the "Esau" character, because I was totally confused by the two Lockes. But you're right that this was a deux ex machina. Not cool at all, Lost writers. Especially since they've never resorted to those kinds of crutches in the past.

I noticed that when Jacob had an encounter with the Oceanic 815ers, he had to either touch them or give them something. That's his connection to them and somehow puts them under his influence.

I also enjoyed how we got a new perspective on the "five seconds" story - a call back all the way to episode 1 of the whole series. Pretty darn cool.


winninghamster

Julie The Vintage Goddess said:
...along with the whole personification of evil is locked in a prison within a magical circle

You mean how Ilana was freaked out about the disturbed ashes around Jacob's cabin? Oh yeah! A circle of ashes is a classic way to keep a demon contained.


Other websites are referring to the statue as Anubis, but the statue clearly has a crocodile head, which would make it Set, right?Actually, Set does not have the head of a crocodile, he has the head of an animal that doesn't exist, something like a cross between an aardvark, a jackal and a donkey.

The Egyptian God with a crocodile head is named Sobek: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sobek

He is a god of protection, of fertility (the crocodile visage links with the Nile, and its fertile annual flood), and also as a repairer of evil that has already been done; he protected the dead and repaired the damage done to them by evil forces in the afterlife.

Loaded, ain't it?


Was I the only one who thought Jacob of the many languages was hot?!


The scene with Rose & Bernard (& Vincent!) made me genuinely happy. The "we're retired" attitude they took towards joining Dharma. Even if they don't appear in the final season I'll feel good about them.

The show knocked it out of the park with the final Sawyer-Juliet scene. Heart-wrenching. A Kate-Jack scene never made me feel as gutted as that did.


SUS and the Anonymouses figuring out what Jacob gave everyone: he gave Jin and Sun a blessing.


Honestly, i don't think Esau came out of nowhere.

think about it, in the pilot we got Locke teaching Walt how to play backgammon: "Two players, two sides. One is light, one is dark." we've had foreshadowing something like this for aaaaaaaages.


Also--how "good" is Jacob? He's been present for a lot of deaths in the main characters lives (Nadia, Sawyer's parents, Locke's (almost) death) and he has been manipulating Ben for awhile, it's quite understandable that Ben would be annoyed. Is he definitely the completely good God?


dammit, i touteading the comments woul give me answers but it just gave me more questions..


OK main WTF for me is this:
If smokey is esau then why did BEN have a secret room and the ability to summon him if he was working for jacob and taking jacobs orders?

He would have never been shown or told how to summon esau if he was jacobs man.

Also when smokey did come after the soldiers he didnt kill them, they lived mostly..if smokey is esau and the soldiers were there to usurp BEN(jacobs man) then smokey would have helped them take down ben instead of helping ben escape, no?

also if jacob is good then why were the others so violent and militant ...look at ellie and ben...they kill without a 2nd thought, under jacobs command?

any thoughts would be great as my head is going to implode


The only thing that improves these Lost posts are the comments made by so many people who are so smart and tuned in! Red Herring - love it!
I didn't mind the deus ex machina, in fact I thought it was a little clever if the whole thing comes down to Christ vs. Satan, which is what I see coming.
But, there was so much bad writing. Juliet's dialogue so so flat - "I changed my mind" - what? "We decided to leave and now we are going back" - what? Doesn't even make sense.


But if it is Christ vs. Satan, who is who?


I think we have been fooled to look at the trees while missing the forest, albeit a rain forest. The forest in this case, is the Island. As viewers we have been focused on the characters, but in reality the Island drives everything, perhaps via Jacob. And to be fair we have been told this over and over since the begining of Lost. Easu may be a new character, but each season (and in many cases season finales) we are introduced to new characters that advance the story. I love T&L's recpas and observations, but they have viewed most of this series back to back via DVD. Many of us have been constant viewers since day one and are used to these twists with months to wait for answers, hell its been on for 5 years! So boys and girls chill for 8 months, and settle in, buckle and enjoy the ride!


I think we have been fooled to look at the trees while missing the forest, albeit a rain forest. The forest in this case, is the Island. As viewers we have been focused on the characters, but in reality the Island drives everything, perhaps via Jacob. And to be fair we have been told this over and over since the begining of Lost. Easu may be a new character, but each season (and in many cases season finales) we are introduced to new characters that advance the story. I love T&L's recpas and observations, but they have viewed most of this series back to back via DVD. Many of us have been constant viewers since day one and are used to these twists with months to wait for answers, hell its been on for 5 years! So boys and girls chill for 8 months, and settle in, buckle and enjoy the ride!


I'm not sure if anyone else caught it or mentioned it already...but during the "showdown" at The Swan did anyone notice how Juliet stopped and touched her stomach? That was a straight Pregnancy move, but then why would she fall to her death???


"Also, the writers have said that if we understood the title of the first episode, we'd understand Lost.

the title of the first episode is The Pilot. Obviously this has another meaning. However, the only pilot we saw on the first episode was the captain of the plane. But who was the first killed by smokey on the island? It was the pilot."

If we are going to stay on the Egyptian theme then The pilot could be the the Ancienct Egyptian port city Canopus which was named after The Pilot of Menelus' ship according to Homer.

http://egyptsites.wordpress.com/2009/03/03/abu-qir-canopus/

Check out who found the ancient document "Decree of Canopus" none other than ...... Karl Lepdis which I think is a pay on Frank the Pilots last name Lepitus(spelling)


"Speaking of dead people... So far all of the strange appearances (possibly cause by Esau) have been dead (Jack's dad, Eko's Brother, Ben's daughter) with the exception of CLAIRE! Does this mean Claire is indeed dead?"

When you say strange apperances do you mean people who just come say stuff and dissappear??? Because if you do, remember at the begining of the show (season 1 or 2) when Walt went missing and Shannon kept seeing him covered in water and rambleing those random things that made no sense? Walt was not dead, but that was most deffinatly a strange appearence, which still makes no sense. And its not because Shannon was dreaming or crazy because one day in the tent syid saw him too.

A lot of things are making more sense now on the show, but many of the things having to do with Walt and Michael still dont make sense to me, i might have missed something thou....


the last of Juliet made me cry.. so I watched it again..wet eyed.. and cried again :(

I can't help but figure that our beloved Charlie is to return? maybe?

His ring is found in Aaron's crib, by Sun.. and then there is the guitar case and Hurley? Charlie appeared to Hurley at the mental hospital..

..ideas??? ..please?


I wasn't upset at the introduction of Esau, I mean we have all been expecting some reason why things happen on the island the way they do. At the end of the episode, I thought a lot of things made sense. When my brother-in-law belatedly started watching the show, I told him, it's like peeling an onion. The outside layer is the people who crash on island, then inside that are people already there (Danielle), then people there before her (the Others) and people who built the hatches, etc. I think we saw the last layer of the onion last night. I think next season is going to be all about the pieces falling together. Hopefully it will not be an endless loop, a la "Dark Tower".


I really loved this episode. It was jaw-dropping. And so true that people get so caught up in their petty little dramas that they don't see the big picture.

I just got so I liked Juliet. Waaah. She was the anti-Kate.


Will the guitar case Hurley is carrying be the foil of the bad guy?


Will the guitar case Hurley is carrying be the foil of the bad guy?


Dudes, WORD. I can't believe how incredibly, embarrassingly self-centered a crew "our heroes" turned out to be. And there was no reason to bring in the love-quadrangle-that-everyone-stopped-caring-about-SEASONS-ago to explain the characters' actions. Jack? Is Mr. Fix-it. He's trying to get back to a time before all those people died, because, having this weird God complex, Jack feels responsible. It's egomania on a massive scale, but that's Jack. In the context of his character arc, it makes sense. But doing it because he thinks he might have a a second chance with Kate that way? Makes no sense, and is just bad writing, period. And Juliet? Is willing to kill people just to avoid the pain of possibly losing Sawyer? Because he looked at Kate? Makes less than no sense. And even if Flight 815 never crashes, Juliet's still stuck on the frikkin' island!!! She's got absolutely nothing to win by letting Jack "reset" time!! That? Is excruciatingly bad writing.

I agree also about dropping Jacob into the lives of the Losties. I hated it. After all this time, they're sticking this guy in everywhere? More bad writing.

But I do think it's possible that Jacob isn't such a good guy, and that "Esau" did the right thing in offing him. Yeah, sucks that he had to use a whole bunch of humans as pawns, but seems like Jacob was doing the same damn thing. But oh, my poor Locke. Please tell me that it wasn't just his destiny to die. Please.

I love me some Rose and Bernard, though.


I think the Lost writing is getting sloppy. The character's motives are getting less and less believable. Imo, they needed more episodes to flesh this out, but they are just trying to get to the end.

However, it's nitpicking. Lost is still more engaging than any other fictional television show and I can forgive some sloppy writing. The episode was mindblowing, and I didn't see any of this coming. I have no idea where season 6 is gonna go.

As far Esau, I thought it was weird, but I don't think it's a deux ex machina. The writers have planned this out from the beginning so i'm sure this character has been known from the start, and is probably the last character introduced. It's probably not a coincidence we see Jacob the first episode we see this new guy.

And in hindsight, the writers did suggest another character that would be Jacob's rival, we just interpreted it incorrectly. They talk about a coming war with two factions. We assumed this was Ben and Widmore. Then Ben gets banished and then we think it's the others/jacob vs. widmore.

I think Widmore has nothing to do with Esau, and he just wanted to get back to the island and blamed ben for being banished. That is what season 4 was about.

It seems like it would be a copout to bring characters back from the dead, but part of me is hoping for some sort of happy ending. Is everyone really going to be dead except Kate, Jack, Sawyer, Hurley, Sun, and Jin? I have a feeling Sayid is going to die in the series finale or the penultimate episode.


The final season starts 2010! Gee, what's the rush? You would think they could give us time to go to the bathroom and make some popcorn!

I guessed that Lock was in that box so that didn't surprise me at all. But thank you for clearing up several other things that confused me. And good call on "Adam and Eve."

Whether or not the timeline was corrected, I suspect there was an explosion because it must have destroyed the statue, right?


I've had an idea since they introduced time travel this season that the island or at least the mysterious force operating on the island is a machine from the future. I figured the smoke monster is the island's intelligence in the form of a cloud of mind reading nanobots that took the shape of dead people. Perhaps it had been sent back to change the past in some way to produce a desired future.

Last night's episode provided a clue that seems to say I'm on the right track in a vague way but have the details wrong.

Jacob was sitting on a bench reading a book right before Locke fell from the building. The book he was reading was called "Everything That Rises Will Converge." by Flannery O'Connor. This book is a book of short stories. I haven't read it so I won't comment on it and how it may relate to Lost. However, the title of O'Connor's book is a quote from the scientist, philosopher and Jesuit priest Pierre Telihard de Chardin.

Telihard postulated something called "The Omega Point." He said that the universe is evolving from the simple to the complex and that the emergence of human consciousness is a step along the way to a point of maximum complexity and consciousness in which the universe evolves into God.

The Omega Point has been the starting place for further theories including those that postulate the mergence of biological and human intelligence as the Omega Point. There is a related theory called the technological singularity in which we create machines that are better at creating themselves than we are and that the machines keep improving until they involve into consciousness.

The Omega Point has been visualized as an entity with the ability to manipulate time and space and the ability to reconstruct every neural pattern that ever existed and to replay those patterns in a virtual reality.

I'm still mulling over what this means now that we know about Esau. Though I suspect that at least Esau is a machine intelligence and was programmed not to kill Jacob. I think the smoke monster is Esau’s natural form of a nanobot cloud. I won't be surprised if Richard turns out to be a robot. I'm pretty sure Jacob and Esau are from the future.

Choosing the names of the biblical twin brothers for Esau and Jacob implies that they share the same nature so if Esau is a machine intelligence, maybe Jacob is too.

Maybe Jacob and Esau are evolved machine intelligences from a future where human kind is extinct because of our violent natures. Jacob has come back in an attempt to create a society of peaceful humans that can be brought forward and Esau is opposed to this because he doesn't think humans are redeemable and are too dangerous to resurrect in the future. He is unable to kill Jacob because they are programmed not to hurt each other.

That's my latest working theory anyway. I've been watching since the first season and I've had several theories, each one shot down by plot twists. This one feels a little closer to the truth but is probably off in some important way. After all, if figuring it out was as simple as a title of a book, we still wouldn't be watching, would we? :)


My husband kept saying "this is Apocalypse Now!" at the end scene. I saw it, once, rather a long time ago, so I have nothing to add here, but I thought I'd throw it out to you lot.


I'm not totally convinced that Julia is dead though, because she had that one moment where she touched her stomach as if to say she suspects she's carrying Sawyer's baby. It could just be my imagination, but I think it's not worth making her pregnant and not yet telling Sawyer if she's just going to die.

The "Esau"/Locke switch though (while a bit Agatha Christie cheating by withholding key info to the mystery) was excellent.


yeah I am so over Kate. Except her hair. I want that hair.

I do have to disagree that Esau came out of nowhere. Maybe putting a face or name to him was new, but he's one of those "surprises" that when you look back on it, fits in pretty well. All the "bad twin" light and dark, rival leaders, what side are you on sort or references throughout the series it's obvious that even Jacob was going to have a rival and it wasn't going to be Widmore. That there were at least two entities is apparent when Hurley sees the cabin and Jacob isn't alone inside.

I don't think the smoke monster and Esau are the same thing, fake!Locke seemed too genuinely surprised when Ben described his encounter. I think that Cerberus is a third party that's taken Esau's side.

While Locke was emphasizing destiny the whole time, Jacob was emphasizing choice, that's the crux of the matter. Locke really was special--Jacob physically touched everyone of the characters that lived in this episode, plus Locke, in the flashbacks to show this--but he got so caught up in the idea of destiny because he didn't like to face his own bad choices, and that's really what killed him.


Good as this ep was, I feel the screenwriters missed a sterling opportunity for a great line. When the H-bomb was dropped down the shaft and failed to detonate, how cool it would have been to cut to Hurley in close-up, and have him deliver the words "It's a dud, dude!"


Too much ado abt a twisted story, I wiII knw how to react to this after finishing it but reaIIY it shd have ended when they Ieft the isIand


You say: "we were introduced to a brand new character who has never even been hinted at and who appears to have been at the center of everything that's happened so far"

But then you also say that the smoke monster and other apparitions appear to be manifestations of this person. So obviously, it was hinted at. Maybe this new person is just another manifestation of the smoke monster. The smoke monster is the thing that's been at the center of everything, not Esau. Esau is just another person who died on the island, so the smoke monster was able to take his form.


To Sixgables: My husband also said the ending of this episode reminded him of Apocalypse Now. He said Locke was very "Colonel Kurtz" (the Marlon Brando character). Apocalype Now is based on "Heart of Darkness."

Discuss.


Elizabeth Mitchell aka Juliet is suppose to be starring in *gasp* V: The Series ( ABC) this Fall...yes that V about aliens that look like reptiles underneath human skin. I loved that show! So Juliet may really be dead


Thank you, Tom and Lorenzo, for making this season of Lost so enjoyable it is silly!


Something I've been thinking about is when Jacob says "They're coming" while he's dying (?). I don't think he's talking about the Magi (Nadia and the two other dudes). I think he's talking about Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley, etc. I think when Juliet set off the hydrogen bomb that she caused another time flash that is somehow going to send them back to 2007 to help deal with Esau/EvilLocke/Smokey/MIB. Also, I'm going to miss Juliet. No one else gave the bitchy side-eye quite like her. Sawyer and Juliet's dying scene had me choked up. Jack is still (and apparently will always be) a giant douche, and the season finale just reignited my hate of Mary-Sue aka Kate.


" I'm going to miss Juliet. No one else gave the bitchy side-eye quite like her. Sawyer and Juliet's dying scene had me choked up."


Same here : )

I can't even watch it again.


I disagree with the posters who said that Juliet would still be stuck in Dharmaville if the bomb DID work the way Daniel thought it would.

The bomb would wipe out the Dharmites still on the island, not to mention laying waste to all their buildings.

That would have happened YEARS before Juliet would have been recruited on the original timeline, so she wouldn't have ended up on the island in the first place.

Right? Or am I missing something?


calvindoeshobbes

For those of you discussing the meaning of the first episode, in the Industry the pilot generally doesn't have a title, but is merely "the pilot." Therefore, the first episode is actually episode three, "tabula rasa". Head on over to wikipedia's entry on tabula rasa to learn more about the concept, the real John Locke, and what it's all about


So whjat bugs me is this al powerful, all knowing being, that has survived on this remote island for hundreds of years, can be felled by stabbing from a mere mortal.


Did anyone consider the reversal of the "Lost" logo after the explosion to be significant? BLACK letters on a BRIGHT background, instead of the other way around as it has been since the first episode? I'm taking that to mean things were reversed.

Consider: Esau (an evil god) was trying to kill Jacob (a good god) since before the Black Rock landed on the island, presumably well before the Dharma Initiative. Esau found a way to manipulate the island to attract and manipulate ALL the forces that have played throughout the entire story arc (Dharma, the Others, Oceanic 813, etc.). He found his "loophole" in Ben. Unless the chain of events could be reversed, Jacob would die after Ben stabbed him.

However, Jacob knew Esau was doing this, so he came up with a counter-loophole. Faraday had the knowledge to reverse things, and Jacob used the Oceanic crew to accomplish it. Think of it as him installing just as many failsafes as Esau installed traps.

I'm going with the notion that the bomb did cancel the timeline and the events were reversed, signified by the black "LOST" logo on the bright background. It's not much to go on, but it's all I got.


I just stumbled upon this review and I swear, it is the most succinct and clear review of the finale out there!! fantastic. I'm so weary of reading Doc Jensen's theories over at EW...Thanks guys!!


Ok gals, i might be a bit slow but why would "Locke/Esau" ask richard why he brought him to the foot of the statue if he would know all along that's where Jacob resides?

And another thing, sorry for being extra slow here..when was the actual name Esau mentioned?

what did I miss?


Thank you for saying that Jack is an ASSHOLE. I have hated his character since day one when, as the only doctor on the plane, and thus the only one who could care for the injured, pregnant or sick, he would go charging off in to the jungle every chance he got.

Amen on the Kate comment too. She's a train wreck and so not worth it.

Nothing was more satisfying than Sawyer beating the hell out to Jack last night.





BALMAIN for women

Blog Archive

Search This Blog

Loading...

Project Runway